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    (Original post by Mansun)
    The university will matter, there is always hidden snobbery in the City in particular, and in many large firms as one climbs the ladder. At 30 I still get asked about and praised about Nottingham at interviews.
    Well for a considerable portion of careers in the city (i.e. the top jobs) you've only got a decent chance of getting into them if you're from Oxbridge, Imperial, UCL, Warwick or LSE so the snobbery isn't exactly hidden; and it's then not exactly easy differentiating candidates years down the line based on which university they went to when everyone pretty much went to a top university.
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    The university will matter, there is always hidden snobbery in the City in particular, and in many large firms as one climbs the ladder. At 30 I still get asked about and praised about Nottingham at interviews.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...employers.html

    http://www.allaboutcareers.com/featu...ployers-target

    Take a look at he above links, Nottingham and Manchester are in the top 4 for both top 100 employers and top graduate employers league tables 2012-2013.
    Also, not to mention, having interviewers praise Nottingham doesn't imply they care enough that it factors into their decision. I also usually get asked about how my journey was coming to the interview, I doubt they're taking that into account when deciding whom to employ. Also, unless you're applying for jobs which don't require a degree, there's nothing really noteworthy about having attended Nottingham - it's a good university, like dozens of others in the UK.
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    (Original post by Noble.)
    Also, not to mention, having interviewers praise Nottingham doesn't imply they care enough that it factors into their decision. I also usually get asked about how my journey was coming to the interview, I doubt they're taking that into account when deciding whom to employ. Also, unless you're applying for jobs which don't require a degree, there's nothing really noteworthy about having attended Nottingham - it's a good university, like dozens of others in the UK.
    I think it is a solid top 11-15 university, and a long time member of the elite Russell Group. Only just below the likes of Warwick, Bristol, Durham reputation wise traditionally. The media league tables might not agree, but I don't read them, plus even the TSR says media rankings do not measure prestige. I think you do great disservice to Nottingham with your assessment, clearly what you say isn't the case. Nottingham is infact one of the top 10 poshest universities, with approx 30% of the 22,400 undergraduates being privately educated. As top graduate employers also target this university, the fact remains it is a draw to the best in society, but not to the uninformed. The last government commissioned RAE exercise put Notts in 7th place.

    Maybe you just have a personal agenda against Nottingham, which you are entitled to. I don't particularly rate Exeter highly, a top 20 yes, but definitely not top 10 like some people think. It was barely top 25 10 years ago, generally speaking. Entry to the Russell Group and a Medical school have really put Exeter on the map compared to 10 years back. But Nottingham added a Vet school in 2006, which was a huge gain for the university. The campuses at Notts are also among the very best in the UK.
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    I think it is a solid top 11-15 university, and a long time member of the Russell Group. Only just below the likes of Warwick, Bristol, Durham reputation wise traditionally. The media league tables might not agree, but I don't read them, plus even the TSR says media rankings do not measure prestige.
    No-one cares about media rankings, they're pointless. Likewise no-one cares that a university is a Russell-Group unless they're doing a post-grad there, working with key people involved in 'ground-breaking' research or they themselves are doing the research, never mind caring how long the university has been a Russell-Group member. If you truly think Russell-Group universities pip all non-RG universities to the post, all you have to do is look at how much better quality the Bath mathematics course is compared to the majority of RG universities, and I'm sure a lot more of their courses are far better as well. I genuinely do not understand the mentality of someone who can see how pointless media tables are, but thinks RG status is a good indication of a 'solid' university - is it because with the latter definition Nottingham is pushed up a fair few positions?

    As for your two links regarding top graduate employers - Do you not realise how many factors that have little to nothing to do with how good a university, its graduates and its courses are go into an employer deciding whether to target that university or not - the decision is a numbers/cost game. You also can't genuinely believe the top investment banks, law firms and consultancies favour Warwick, Nottingham and Manchester when two-thirds of those aren't even a target university for IB, and some consultancy firms don't even recruit outside of Oxbridge - UCL isn't even on that list and Birmingham and Strathclyde are :lol:
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    (Original post by Noble.)
    No-one cares about media rankings, they're pointless. Likewise no-one cares that a university is a Russell-Group unless they're doing a post-grad there, working with key people involved in 'ground-breaking' research or they themselves are doing the research, never mind caring how long the university has been a Russell-Group member. If you truly think Russell-Group universities pip all non-RG universities to the post, all you have to do is look at how much better quality the Bath mathematics course is compared to the majority of RG universities, and I'm sure a lot more of their courses are far better as well. I genuinely do not understand the mentality of someone who can see how pointless media tables are, but thinks RG status is a good indication of a 'solid' university - is it because with the latter definition Nottingham is pushed up a fair few positions?

    As for your two links regarding top graduate employers - Do you not realise how many factors that have little to nothing to do with how good a university, its graduates and its courses are go into an employer deciding whether to target that university or not - the decision is a numbers/cost game. You also can't genuinely believe the top investment banks, law firms and consultancies favour Warwick, Nottingham and Manchester when two-thirds of those aren't even a target university for IB, and some consultancy firms don't even recruit outside of Oxbridge - UCL isn't even on that list and Birmingham and Strathclyde are :lol:
    Well if you look at the members of the Russell Group, can you name one university you wouldn't rate as a top 25 university at the least? All of them deserve to be there on merit. I have heard in many spheres Russell Group universities being addressed as the strongest unis, in government, in business, and in academia.The only two missing who arguably should be there also are Bath & St Andrews.

    I can only imagine UCL and a few other London unis don't do so well in the employer league tables is the fact that 40-50% of students are international, so the pool of British graduates shrinks. Also, most graduates don't want to work in investment banks or even in the City. I work in medical science, but many of my notts hall mates work for Barclays, PwC, KPMG, Rothschild, amongt others. Some are working for an MP, some have gone into the Police.

    Which uni did you go to? I'd also lik to know why Strathclyde is popular with employers, and why a whopping 468 ucas points is the average entry requirement for this university, one which I only rated as fairly good in previous years.

    Noble, from your recent posts, I can clearly see that you do know some things, but nothing much about others. That is a lot better than some other posters I have encountered, 17-18 year olds who know next to nothing beyond media tables and what they perceive as the best, like St Andrews, Exeter and Durham, when infact UCL, Warwick, Bristol and others besides are a bit stronger overall.
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    (Original post by hdismorr)
    This thread is halarious!

    Personally for me from previous experiences and friends who have gone to university the 'poshest' ones have been:

    Oxford Brooke's (seriously some of the things you hear on a night out are ridiculously rah )

    Exeter.

    Leeds ( one of my flatmates wanted a live in cleaner for our house and I was also parked next to another students Aston martin).

    Obviously there are many universities out there and all have their little clichés so those are just my comments.....

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    do tell
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    Well if you look at the members of the Russell Group, can you name one university you wouldn't rate as a top 25 university at the least? All of them deserve to be there on merit. I have heard in many spheres Russell Group universities being addressed as the strongest unis, in government, in business, and in academia.The only two missing who arguably should be there also are Bath & St Andrews.

    I can only imagine UCL and a few other London unis don't do so well in the employer league tables is the fact that 40-50% of students are international, so the pool of British graduates shrinks. Also, most graduates don't want to work in investment banks or even in the City. I work in medical science, but many of my notts hall mates work for Barclays, PwC, KPMG, Rothschild, amongt others. Some are working for an MP, some have gone into the Police.

    Which uni did you go to?
    No I can't, and I wouldn't bother because trying to determine what universities rank in the 10-30 positions is such a waste of time and often futile to say the least. However, I think you confuse the following two statements: "the strongest universities belong to the Russell Group", "Members of the Russell Group are the strongest universities". The first statement applies for the bigger universities, the second doesn't necessarily. If London MET were to join the RG tomorrow, it wouldn't suddenly change people's perception of the RG including world-leading universities, it doesn't suddenly make London MET even a strong university, never mind world-leading.

    As you point out, even the proportion of international students affects whether an employer will consider targeting a university - so you can see how utterly pointless these league tables are

    Also, you seem to be wondering if I have a personal agenda against Nottingham. I don't, it's a good university and I'm sure it's excellent for certain courses (i.e. Law), I question how differentiable it is to other universities in a similar league - you also seem to be quite adamant on showing it is a top university even if the argument is nonsense.

    I'm still at university, Oxford.

    EDIT: I don't usually bother talking about general league tables because they're a waste of time. It's only worth talking about subject specific league tables when you can actually do some meaningful comparison.
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    (Original post by Noble.)
    No-one cares about media rankings, they're pointless. Likewise no-one cares that a university is a Russell-Group unless they're doing a post-grad there, working with key people involved in 'ground-breaking' research or they themselves are doing the research, never mind caring how long the university has been a Russell-Group member. If you truly think Russell-Group universities pip all non-RG universities to the post, all you have to do is look at how much better quality the Bath mathematics course is compared to the majority of RG universities, and I'm sure a lot more of their courses are far better as well. I genuinely do not understand the mentality of someone who can see how pointless media tables are, but thinks RG status is a good indication of a 'solid' university - is it because with the latter definition Nottingham is pushed up a fair few positions?

    As for your two links regarding top graduate employers - Do you not realise how many factors that have little to nothing to do with how good a university, its graduates and its courses are go into an employer deciding whether to target that university or not - the decision is a numbers/cost game. You also can't genuinely believe the top investment banks, law firms and consultancies favour Warwick, Nottingham and Manchester when two-thirds of those aren't even a target university for IB, and some consultancy firms don't even recruit outside of Oxbridge - UCL isn't even on that list and Birmingham and Strathclyde are :lol:
    Yeah, but in your view does that translate to better job prospects? That's all I can honestly be concerned about when it comes to university these days (my earning potential). Shallow it may be, but I have many reasons.
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    (Original post by Wisefire)
    Yeah, but in your view does that translate to better job prospects. That's all I can honestly be concerned about when it comes to university these days (my earning potential). Shallow it may be, but I have many reasons.
    Well I've heard Bath be described as a "powerhouse" when it comes to mathematics from an employer, so I'm sure a lot of them in the business of getting top mathematics graduate take note.
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    (Original post by Noble.)
    No I can't, and I wouldn't bother because trying to determine what universities rank in the 10-30 positions is such a waste of time and often futile to say the least. However, I think you confuse the following two statements: "the strongest universities belong to the Russell Group", "Members of the Russell Group are the strongest universities". The first statement applies for the bigger universities, the second doesn't necessarily. If London MET were to join the RG tomorrow, it wouldn't suddenly change people's perception of the RG including world-leading universities, it doesn't suddenly make London MET even a strong university, never mind world-leading.

    As you point out, even the proportion of international students affects whether an employer will consider targeting a university - so you can see how utterly pointless these league tables are

    Also, you seem to be wondering if I have a personal agenda against Nottingham. I don't, it's a good university and I'm sure it's excellent for certain courses (i.e. Law), I question how differentiable it is to other universities in a similar league - you also seem to be quite adamant on showing it is a top university even if the argument is nonsense.

    I'm still at university, Oxford.

    EDIT: I don't usually bother talking about general league tables because they're a waste of time. It's only worth talking about subject specific league tables when you can actually do some meaningful comparison.
    The argument is not nonsense. Nottingham is one of the strongest research intensive unis in the UK, getting the 5th most funding from industry for research, 7th in the RAE assessments, long time RG member(membership granted only to unis demonstrating excellence in research across a broad range of departments), regular top 5 in graduate employer tables, one of the very best campuses, top 10 for private school intake most years, and I could go on and on. And then one wonders whether it is worth typing the same thing a thousand times.

    You are entitled to you opinion, I am 30 now, and have grown up quite a bit from the days when I pinned the media Rankings on my wall when the Times ranked Notts at no.9 in 2002 (the year I started uni).
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    Plymouth...








    lol
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    The argument is not nonsense. Nottingham is one of the strongest research intensive unis in the UK, getting the 5th most funding from industry for research, 7th in the RAE assessments, long time RG member(membership granted only to unis demonstrating excellence in research across a broad range of departments), regular top 5 in graduate employer tables, one of the very best campuses, top 10 for private school intake most years, and I could go on and on. And then one wonders whether it is worth typing the same thing a thousand times.

    You are entitled to you opinion, I am 30 now, and have grown up quite a but from the days when I pinned the media Rankings on my wall when the Times ranked Notts at no.9 in 2002 (the year I started uni).
    You insinuating it's a positive/good thing for university rankings and graduate prospects if this is the case? If it actually is so, this country's ****ed. I mean, I'm chuffed I got my scholarship to the private school I go to. I've actually always wondered... Does the simple name of your school you did your public exams in (that you put on your CV) actually affect your chances? I'm asking: does a private school's name actually BETTER your chances in getting a job, in any sort of field whatsoever? Bit of an idiosyncratic question but lol, I'm curious... Anything helps.
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    (Original post by Noble.)
    Well I've heard Bath be described as a "powerhouse" when it comes to mathematics from an employer, so I'm sure a lot of them in the business of getting top mathematics graduate take note.
    Thanks. One more thing. Would you say that these choices would be suitable if I got extremely good AS retakes and A2 results next year, should I reapply (for economics courses):

    UCL (first choice; Statistics, Economics & Finance), Warwick, Bristol, Nottingham, and Edinburgh as the insurance/fifth choice.
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    Mansun is clearly trying to push Nottingham as a more amazing place to attend than it is

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    (Original post by Mansun)
    The stats are very clear, Notts has year on year around 30% of students from the private sector, Durham and St Andrews and 40%. You can't judge these things on face value! I met many people as a student at Notts who behaved poorly and looked like state school kids, yet were boarding school educated.

    So Nottingham has 30% of people from private school, but how does it make it posh? 30% is still a considerably low amount, besides the 70% overthrows the 30% and there's still a huge gap.
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    (Original post by Wisefire)
    You insinuating it's a positive/good thing for university rankings and graduate prospects if this is the case? If it actually is so, this country's ****ed. I mean, I'm chuffed I got my scholarship to the private school I go to. I've actually always wondered... Does the simple name of your school you did your public exams in (that you put on your CV) actually affect your chances? I'm asking: does a private school's name actually BETTER your chances in getting a job, in any sort of field whatsoever? Bit of an idiosyncratic question but lol, I'm curious... Anything helps.
    All I can say is aim for Russell Group (and Bath, St Andrews) and you will be just fine. If you can get into a top 6 uni, even better, you will get more brownie points. Ignore the talk of target unis etc, at the end of the day it is you who needs to apply, pass the aptitude tests, pass the 2-3 stages of interview, and work your socks off to not only do well in the job, but to combat the endless battles of office politics in the corporate world. I saw PwC with huge banners and a table set up in the Notts student union building entrance in each of the three years I was there, yet people on TSR still think Notts isn't a target uni. I'm not sure if advice on the TSR is to be believed in most cases. If they have an agenda with a University, good or ill, they will defend or crucify it as they will.
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    The argument is not nonsense. Nottingham is one of the strongest research intensive unis in the UK, getting the 5th most funding from industry for research, 7th in the RAE assessments, long time RG member(membership granted only to unis demonstrating excellence in research across a broad range of departments), regular top 5 in graduate employer tables, one of the very best campuses, top 10 for private school intake most years, and I could go on and on. And then one wonders whether it is worth typing the same thing a thousand times.

    You are entitled to you opinion, I am 30 now, and have grown up quite a bit from the days when I pinned the media Rankings on my wall when the Times ranked Notts at no.9 in 2002 (the year I started uni).
    As someone who actually compiled and helped Oxford sort out their latest RAE (now REF) assessment, I can't even begin to stress how little of it has to do with anything even remotely pertaining to undergraduates. Most of the work that gets sent off by academics (ranging from articles, patents, conferences etc.) isn't even always relevant to most of their PhD students, never mind the undergraduates who in comparison are still trying to learn the alphabet. Also, statistics like "most funding from industry" and position within RAE/REF assessments - both of these things are influenced by the size of the university, the size of the cohort of research staff. Long time RG member - useless statistic. Position in graduate employer tables - if you've read anything I've said so far, useless statistic. One of the best campuses - so what? Top 10 for private school intake - so what? You could go on and on but I'd imagine a lot of them would beg the question "So what?".
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    The argument is not nonsense. Nottingham is one of the strongest research intensive unis in the UK, getting the 5th most funding from industry for research, 7th in the RAE assessments, long time RG member(membership granted only to unis demonstrating excellence in research across a broad range of departments), regular top 5 in graduate employer tables, one of the very best campuses, top 10 for private school intake most years, and I could go on and on. And then one wonders whether it is worth typing the same thing a thousand times.

    You are entitled to you opinion, I am 30 now, and have grown up quite a bit from the days when I pinned the media Rankings on my wall when the Times ranked Notts at no.9 in 2002 (the year I started uni).
    By what definition do you think private school students are "more aware" - there's at least one definition where I'd say they're generally much LESS aware. Also, as for going to a top private school having a good overall effect, it could do if you go to a top university - if not it could work against you and does beg the question why you weren't able to do well enough to go to a top university when a lot of your classmates were.
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    (Original post by Noble.)
    As someone who actually compiled and helped Oxford sort out their latest RAE (now REF) assessment, I can't even begin to stress how little of it has to do with anything even remotely pertaining to undergraduates. Most of the work that gets sent off by academics (ranging from articles, patents, conferences etc.) isn't even always relevant to most of their PhD students, never mind the undergraduates who in comparison are still trying to learn the alphabet. Also, statistics like "most funding from industry" and position within RAE/REF assessments - both of these things are influenced by the size of the university, the size of the cohort of research staff. Long time RG member - useless statistic. Position in graduate employer tables - if you've read anything I've said so far, useless statistic. One of the best campuses - so what? Top 10 for private school intake - so what? You could go on and on but I'd imagine a lot of them would beg the question "So what?".

    By the same logic, you may as well have gone to Luton, who have an very good teaching university they say. Research strength does not matter? Harvard gets over £16 billion of private funding from industry for world class cutting edge research that benefits the US economy, yet that matters zilch for their students and their standing as a top 3 world leading university?

    Goodness me, I was hoping better from a guy from Oxford!
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    All I can say is aim for Russell Group (and Bath, St Andrews) and you will be just fine. If you can get into a top 6 uni, even better, you will bet more brownie points. Ignore the talk of target unis etc, at the end of the day it is you who needs to apply, pass the aptitude tests, pass the 2-3 stages of interview, and work your socks off to not only do well in the job, but to combat the endless battles of office politics in the corporate world. I saw PwC with huge banners and a table set up in the Notts student union building entrance in each of the three years I was there, yet people on TSR still think Notts isn't a target uni. I'm not sure if advice on the TSR is to be believed in most cases. If they have an agenda with a University, good or ill, they will defend or crucify it as they will.
    One implication of what I thought you said I do agree with. I feel I'm a more 'aware' individual than most. I would tend to agree with the idea that a larger percentage of private school students would also be more 'aware' than most. I would WANT that to be appreciated. I'm not DULL, and hopefully my bursary/scholarship award highlights that. Even the fact that I attracted a very high bursary/scholarship from a top 20 private school... Can that be of benefit to me? It probably is, but I just want to get opinions. I need to make that more apparent to more people, if so.

    Nonetheless, I seriously am trying to aim for ELITE, not just very good. I so bloody want to get to a top 6 university now... If I don't, I don't care: I'm saving to get an MBA or a Masters from a top 6/target (or LBS). But that's further down the line.
 
 
 
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