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My favourite pro veganism quotation! watch

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    (Original post by defenestrated)
    that must've been a stretch i hope your mum is proud
    mum insults. Really? :lolwut:
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    mum insults. Really? :lolwut:
    Especially after the point is being made to not post like a 4 year old.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    You assume plants aren't sentient, despite reasonable evidence to suggest they're aware of their surroundings (for instance root growth), certainly there's as likely to be sentient and capable of pain as bivalves. But beyond that, the use of pesticides kills hundreds upon thousands of insects every year to protect the crops so it's a bit of a false claim to suggest plant based agriculture doesn't harm many wild animals unless you claim insects aren't animals.
    Root growth? Plants feel pain? Plants are sentient? :lolwut:

    Why are mods allowed to troll on this forum? Double standards . I probably can't even report you for trolling :rolleyes:

    Let's get this straight: Plants do not have feelings, they do not have a nervous system, they do not have a brain to process pain, they do not fulfil all the life processes by not moving so they are not alive in the conventional sense. For these reasons it is acceptable to eat plants without feeling guilt. Animals on the other hands, in general, move, feel pain, and have a nervous system.

    I hope I don't get another "reminder"/"yellow card" for speaking my thoughts. That would be a travesty
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    This post doesn't make sense. You need to specify what points are void of meaning.
    The word irregardless is void of meaning


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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Root growth? Plants feel pain? Plants are sentient? :lolwut:

    Why are mods allowed to troll on this forum? Double standards . I probably can't even report you for trolling :rolleyes:

    Let's get this straight: Plants do not have feelings, they do not have a nervous system, they do not have a brain to process pain, they do not fulfil all the life processes by not moving so they are not alive in the conventional sense. For these reasons it is acceptable to eat plants without feeling guilt. Animals on the other hands, in general, move, feel pain, and have a nervous system.

    I hope I don't get another "reminder"/"yellow card" for speaking my thoughts. That would be a travesty
    Son, if I was trolling, I'd just be posting pictures of a steak, I don't go to extreme lengths for easy wins.

    Pants can direct their root growth dependent on the surroundings, capable of turning to avoid rocks and stones, suggesting a degree of awareness, that they aren't obviously self-aware to us doesn't mean they aren't sentient. But beyond that, they're as like to feel pain and have sentience as bivalves, given neither have a CNS. Besides that a brian is not necessary to process pain, the receptors alone can spark a response, such as those plants that roll their leaves up in response to contact, and they can move, they regularly re angle themselves in response to the sun.

    Even in they are sentient of course, we still have to eat in the end, but then the same arguments apply to eating meat.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Son, if I was trolling, I'd just be posting pictures of a steak, I don't go to extreme lengths for easy wins.

    Pants can direct their root growth dependent on the surroundings, capable of turning to avoid rocks and stones, suggesting a degree of awareness, that they aren't obviously self-aware to us doesn't mean they aren't sentient. But beyond that, they're as like to feel pain and have sentience as bivalves, given neither have a CNS. Besides that a brian is not necessary to process pain, the receptors alone can spark a response, such as those plants that roll their leaves up in response to contact, and they can move, they regularly re angle themselves in response to the sun.

    Even in they are sentient of course, we still have to eat in the end, but then the same arguments apply to eating meat.
    Plants grow around rocks because that is where there is space. They would grow through rocks if there was a gap in them. Just like how plants tend to grow towards light. It is a chemical response, not a response of a sentient being.

    By the very definition of pain, you need something to process and feel it. You cannot have pain without a brain. That would be like: Seeing without eyes. Just not possible.

    The plant example you use is a chemical response, not because it feels our touch. It doesn't recoil because it feels pain. You're clutches at straws trying to defend meat-eating again. Why don't you just accept eating meat is bad for the animals, planet and your health and we can stop this debate right now. I have no qualms with you continuing to eat meat - it's none of my business.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    : Seeing without eyes. Just not possible.
    Echolocation.

    I have no qualms with you continuing to eat meat - it's none of my business.
    Then you shouldn't have got so preachy, nor should there's too much love - I give not one solitary damn if someone is a vegan or not, I've got plenty of friends who don't eat meat and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, because they're decent people. However, when people trivialise ethnic cleansing and rape to justify being up on their high horse, then I'm going to respond. Think of your diet as a penis - fine to have it but don't act like you're better than everyone else for having it, don't try to force it down people's throats and if you do, don't be surprised when it gets ripped off and fed to the dogs.

    Keep your diet to yourself and there's no problem, make grossly offensive comments about rape and the Holocaust and I'll start upping my meat consumption to more than the two of us would eat if you weren't vegan, out of pure spite.


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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    x
    Your argument depends on the view that plants and animals are both alive in the same way, and feel pain in the same way. So therefore eating/killing animals is no different than eating/"killing" plants. And you're entitled to this view if you want.

    BUT, when it comes down to it, I somehow doubt that, on an emotional, logical and gut-instinctive level, people who use this argument genuinely feel this way - that, for example, ripping and eating a leaf off a tree is the same as slitting the throat of a pig and cooking/eating it later on.

    It's all fine and dandy saying "but plants have feeling too wahhhhh" etc., just talking about it and having these philosophical discussions about morals and ethics, but if deep down these counterarguments don't truly resonate with the person, then it seems more like an excuse than anything else.

    Of course, that's unless you really think killing/eating a plant is the same as killing/eating an animal? Do you?
    Again, I'm not saying you're not allowed to hold this view, but I just find it hard to understand how someone could hold such a view. :dontknow: I'm just trying to understand what goes on in people's minds.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    mum insults. Really? :lolwut:
    that's not a mum insult
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    (Original post by TooEasy123)
    Your argument depends on the view that plants and animals are both alive in the same way, and feel pain in the same way. So therefore eating/killing animals is no different than eating/"killing" plants. And you're entitled to this view if you want.

    BUT, when it comes down to it, I somehow doubt that, on an emotional, logical and gut-instinctive level, people who use this argument genuinely feel this way - that, for example, ripping and eating a leaf off a tree is the same as slitting the throat of a pig and cooking/eating it later on.

    It's all fine and dandy saying "but plants have feeling too wahhhhh" etc., just talking about it and having these philosophical discussions about morals and ethics, but if deep down these counterarguments don't truly resonate with the person, then it seems more like an excuse than anything else.

    Of course, that's unless you really think killing/eating a plant is the same as killing/eating an animal? Do you?
    Again, I'm not saying you're not allowed to hold this view, but I just find it hard to understand how someone could hold such a view. :dontknow: I'm just trying to understand what goes on in people's minds.
    You're talking to a person who can't eat salad unless it's masked by meat, and, given its an eat meat or starve deal for me, sees absolutely no problem with killing animals for food, so yes, for me they're both on a level, because killing animals is a necessity.

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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    You're talking to a person who can't eat salad unless it's masked by meat, and, given its an eat meat or starve deal for me, sees absolutely no problem with killing animals for food, so yes, for me they're both on a level, because killing animals is a necessity.

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    As you've decided to go onto a vegan thread to talk about how you can't be vegan; what medical issue do you have that requires you to eat meat?

    And it certainly isn't a necessity for the vast majority of people.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Echolocation.



    Then you shouldn't have got so preachy, nor should there's too much love - I give not one solitary damn if someone is a vegan or not, I've got plenty of friends who don't eat meat and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, because they're decent people. However, when people trivialise ethnic cleansing and rape to justify being up on their high horse, then I'm going to respond. Think of your diet as a penis - fine to have it but don't act like you're better than everyone else for having it, don't try to force it down people's throats and if you do, don't be surprised when it gets ripped off and fed to the dogs.

    Keep your diet to yourself and there's no problem, make grossly offensive comments about rape and the Holocaust and I'll start upping my meat consumption to more than the two of us would eat if you weren't vegan, out of pure spite.


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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    You're talking to a person who can't eat salad unless it's masked by meat, and, given its an eat meat or starve deal for me, sees absolutely no problem with killing animals for food, so yes, for me they're both on a level, because killing animals is a necessity.

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    I think you need to see a psychologist. You come across as a disturbed man and I hope to my atheist god I never have to stand in the same room as you :eek: You might kill and eat me :eek4:
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    I think you need to see a psychologist. You come across as a disturbed man and I hope to my atheist god I never have to stand in the same room as you :eek: You might kill and eat me :eek4:
    Charming, finished trying to kill your high horse yet? It's about as alive as last Christmases turkey y'know.

    Edit: given my partners a psychologist and trainee counsellor I ought to correct you - psychologists and psychiatrists aren't the same thing.

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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    So morally you have no defense.


    You just want to stand on a soap box and say: "meat eaters shouldn't be preached to about the suffering they cause!"?

    Did I get that right?
    You're not going to win over a lot of people like that you know
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)

    given my partners a psychologist and trainee counsellor I ought to correct you - psychologists and psychiatrists aren't the same thing.

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    Given the behaviour that person has displayed in this thread and also multiple others, I can only imagine they'll be getting to know this well in their future
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    The plant example you use is a chemical response, not because it feels our touch. It doesn't recoil because it feels pain.
    What is your opinion on Mimosa Pudica? It would seem to be more receptive than some animals, such as Mussels for example.

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    Stiff little fingers, I apologise. It seems you are a far nicer person than your vegan friend "there's too much love". He has admitted reporting both me and you. What a jerk huh? Well he's on my iggy list for eternity! :woo:
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Given the behaviour that person has displayed in this thread and also multiple others, I can only imagine they'll be getting to know this well in their future
    That's a bit unnecessary - they're clearly just an idealistic young chap who hasn't realised/accepted that the world doesn't really care what you think/don't do, only what you do and offer to it.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    I ad hom, therefore I ad hom.
    Fixed.
 
 
 
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