Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Black Lives Matter watch

Announcements
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    And what do you base that of ?
    A quick Google search reveals how blacks resist arrest significantly more often. In additional to the statistical evidence, there is also the testimony of law enforcement officers and my own personal experiences / knowledge.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    A quick Google search reveals how blacks resist arrest significantly more often. In additional to the statistical evidence, there is also the testimony of law enforcement officers and my own personal experiences / knowledge.
    So you believe what the Police tell you ? And you believe that the police do not lie ? And you believe what stats complied by the police tell you ?
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    So you believe what the Police tell you ? And you believe that the police do not lie ? And you believe what stats complied by the police tell you ?
    I accept the stats that are confirmed by just about every study (and the other evidence that I stated). If you can provide me with a serious of reliable sources countering these stats be my guest.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    I accept the stats that are confirmed by just about every study (and the other evidence that I stated). If you can provide me with a serious of reliable sources countering these stats be my guest.
    I'll ask you again. It's three simple questions.

    Do you believe what the Police tell you ? Do you believe that the police do not lie ? And you believe what stats complied by the police tell you ?
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    I'll ask you again. It's three simple questions.

    Do you believe what the Police tell you ? Do you believe that the police do not lie ? And you believe what stats complied by the police tell you ?
    Do you believe what the Police tell you ? For the most part yes, especially US police.

    Do you believe that the police do not lie ? For the most part no, especially US police.

    And you believe what stats complied by the police tell you ? For the most part yes, especially those compiled by the US police.

    I referred to the US police as that is what we are discussing here and quite frankly, they are amongst the most professional police in the world.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Do you believe what the Police tell you ? For the most part yes, especially US police.

    Do you believe that the police do not lie ? For the most part no, especially US police.
    This is a message I wrote to @underscore but like you he had this naive view of the USA Police. So I'll ask you.

    1) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police plant evidence on suspects to frame them, as with the Ramparts division scandal or they protect drug runners ?

    2) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police deal in drugs THEMSELVES. Ever heard about New York’s infamous 75th precinct ?

    3) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain the police murdering those who file complaints against them ?

    4) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain the slaughtering innocent civilians and then covering up the crime ?

    5) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how the police enforce the war on drugs, which has disproportionately targeted black people, even though according to every study and at every age level, whites use and deal drugs at the same or higher rates than the black people ?

    6) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that sometimes the police are told not to enforce drug laws against white people.

    7) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police profile and stop-and-frisk, harassing almost exclusively innocent persons so as to get at the statistical few that have actually committed a crime ?

    8) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain the Police in Ferguson have functioned for years as the enforcers of a massive municipal shakedown scheme, in which black people were targeted for minor offences, ticketed and then fined so as to raise money for local government ?

    9) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain when the riots happened in the USA last year following the killing of Michael Brown, police responded to protests by using military equipment and tactics, sending a message that they were essentially at war with their own people !! Tactics that they are now admitting only escalated the crisis ?

    10) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the Police threaten to kill black folks and hide the evidence, but are allowed to keep their jobs ?

    11) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they love posting blatantly racist and even homicidal rants on their social media pages or in text messages, in town after town across America: dozens of such cases in the past year that we know of, including one particularly egregious case in San Francisco, in which a group of officers exchanged messages calling African Americans “monkeys” and declaring that all blacks (whom they certainly didn’t refer to in that way) “must hang.” ?

    12) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain another case from Albuquerque where an officer who shot and killed a suspect after a traffic stop referred to his profession as “human waste disposal” on Facebook.

    13) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain in some of these cases, the racist cops have also been allowed to keep their jobs or to get them back after being fired, as recently happened in Florida.Police beat black suspects without cause and then lie about it, or plant evidence to cover up their misdeeds ?

    14) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they respond to the least verbal challenge with violence, as in the case of Eric Garner who was killed by a Staten Island cop by way of neck compression, simply for telling police to stop harassing him.

    15) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how too often they have shot first and asked questions (or not) later, and are far quicker to shoot unarmed black folks than unarmed whites ?

    16) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they shoot children like Tamir Rice, playing with a toy gun and then lie about the incident ?
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    This is a message I wrote to @underscore but like you he had this naive view of the USA Police. So I'll ask you.

    1) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police plant evidence on suspects to frame them, as with the Ramparts division scandal or they protect drug runners ?

    2) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police deal in drugs THEMSELVES. Ever heard about New York’s infamous 75th precinct ?

    3) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain the police murdering those who file complaints against them ?

    4) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain the slaughtering innocent civilians and then covering up the crime ?

    5) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how the police enforce the war on drugs, which has disproportionately targeted black people, even though according to every study and at every age level, whites use and deal drugs at the same or higher rates than the black people ?

    6) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that sometimes the police are told not to enforce drug laws against white people.

    7) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police profile and stop-and-frisk, harassing almost exclusively innocent persons so as to get at the statistical few that have actually committed a crime ?

    8) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain the Police in Ferguson have functioned for years as the enforcers of a massive municipal shakedown scheme, in which black people were targeted for minor offences, ticketed and then fined so as to raise money for local government ?

    9) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain when the riots happened in the USA last year following the killing of Michael Brown, police responded to protests by using military equipment and tactics, sending a message that they were essentially at war with their own people !! Tactics that they are now admitting only escalated the crisis ?

    10) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the Police threaten to kill black folks and hide the evidence, but are allowed to keep their jobs ?

    11) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they love posting blatantly racist and even homicidal rants on their social media pages or in text messages, in town after town across America: dozens of such cases in the past year that we know of, including one particularly egregious case in San Francisco, in which a group of officers exchanged messages calling African Americans “monkeys” and declaring that all blacks (whom they certainly didn’t refer to in that way) “must hang.” ?

    12) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain another case from Albuquerque where an officer who shot and killed a suspect after a traffic stop referred to his profession as “human waste disposal” on Facebook.

    13) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain in some of these cases, the racist cops have also been allowed to keep their jobs or to get them back after being fired, as recently happened in Florida.Police beat black suspects without cause and then lie about it, or plant evidence to cover up their misdeeds ?

    14) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they respond to the least verbal challenge with violence, as in the case of Eric Garner who was killed by a Staten Island cop by way of neck compression, simply for telling police to stop harassing him.

    15) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how too often they have shot first and asked questions (or not) later, and are far quicker to shoot unarmed black folks than unarmed whites ?

    16) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they shoot children like Tamir Rice, playing with a toy gun and then lie about the incident ?
    There are so many mistruths / lies in the above that it does not warrant a serious reply, never mind the multiple suspect sources. You have referred to the death of several individuals in which I am already aware, cases in which I support the action taken by the police (hence why I can identify the mistruths).
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    There are so many mistruths / lies in the above that it does not warrant a serious reply, never mind the multiple suspect sources. You have referred to the death of several individuals in which I am already aware, cases in which I support the action taken by the police (hence why I can identify the mistruths).
    I knew you would not debate. I knew that you'd dismiss. I knew you'd overlook whatever facts that do not suit your argument, You're locked in your own self-delusion and nothing anyone says will make any difference.

    The problem now is that you can’t accept the plain and proven truth. You have invested too much in to lies and accepting the truth now would mean accepting that, all along, you haven't been a “dispassionate realist” but an ignorant fool and that you can’t accept of yourself.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    I knew you would not debate. I knew that you'd dismiss. I knew you'd overlook whatever facts that do not suit your argument, You're locked in your own self-delusion and nothing anyone says will make any difference.

    The problem now is that you can’t accept the plain and proven truth. You have invested too much in to lies and accepting the truth now would mean accepting that, all along, you haven't been a “dispassionate realist” but an ignorant fool and that you can’t accept of yourself.
    No, I just accept that sometimes criminals get shot, I also accept that sometimes non-criminals get shot as a result of not listening to the commands of the police. The actions of many of the above directly contributed to their shootings.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)

    1) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police plant evidence on suspects to frame them, as with the Ramparts division scandal or they protect drug runners ?

    2) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police deal in drugs THEMSELVES. Ever heard about New York’s infamous 75th precinct ?
    These were 20 years ago and representative of police today.

    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    3) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain the police murdering those who file complaints against them ?
    The story was about a police officer who ran a drug protection racket and ordered a hit on another officer. It's not linked to this point.


    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    5) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how the police enforce the war on drugs, which has disproportionately targeted black people, even though according to every study and at every age level, whites use and deal drugs at the same or higher rates than the black people ?
    These figures disregard relevant information. Black people are more likely to be in high crime areas making it more likely they'll be searched. Also even if usage is the same it doesn't mean that both white and black people spend as much time in possession; I know plenty of people who weed delivered to their house so the police could never bust them.

    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    6) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that sometimes the police are told not to enforce drug laws against white people.
    What the video actually says is that the DEA unit this man was attached to didn't target more rural areas and smaller cities. It doesn't say he was told not to enforce drug laws on white people.

    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    7) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the police profile and stop-and-frisk, harassing almost exclusively innocent persons so as to get at the statistical few that have actually committed a crime ?
    As I said black people are more likely to be in high crime areas and dress in the typical way that, in the US, is associated with criminals.

    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    10) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain that the Police threaten to kill black folks and hide the evidence, but are allowed to keep their jobs ?

    11) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they love posting blatantly racist and even homicidal rants on their social media pages or in text messages, in town after town across America: dozens of such cases in the past year that we know of, including one particularly egregious case in San Francisco, in which a group of officers exchanged messages calling African Americans “monkeys” and declaring that all blacks (whom they certainly didn’t refer to in that way) “must hang.” ?

    12) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain another case from Albuquerque where an officer who shot and killed a suspect after a traffic stop referred to his profession as “human waste disposal” on Facebook.

    13) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain in some of these cases, the racist cops have also been allowed to keep their jobs or to get them back after being fired, as recently happened in Florida.Police beat black suspects without cause and then lie about it, or plant evidence to cover up their misdeeds ?

    14) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they respond to the least verbal challenge with violence, as in the case of Eric Garner who was killed by a Staten Island cop by way of neck compression, simply for telling police to stop harassing him.
    These are isolated incidents involving a few officers, not representative of the 1.1m officers in the US

    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    15) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how too often they have shot first and asked questions (or not) later, and are far quicker to shoot unarmed black folks than unarmed whites ?
    Being unarmed does not mean you're innocent. If you reach for a police officers gun then you aren't innocent but you are unarmed.

    (Original post by PrincePaul657777)
    16) If you think the police for most part are honest then how do you explain how they shoot children like Tamir Rice, playing with a toy gun and then lie about the incident ?
    The Tamir Rice incident was a terrible mistake but here is the gun that he was holding, I wouldn't know it was fake.

    The biggest problems people have when they talk about the police in the USA is they conflate issues that are socio-political with issues that are about policing. You also use a lot of examples of incidents involving individual officers yet I could find plenty of incidents officers doing good things, going beyond the call of duty.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Please provide evidence that they were unjustified. The fact that they were unarmed alone is not sufficient.



    This thread is about the group you support called BLACK lives matter and I am bringing race into it?

    Again please provide evidence that these were unjustified killings. I know you don't believe in an justified killing so let me use this to educate you what the establishment considers this to be.

    "A non-criminal homicide ruling, usually committed in self-defense or in defense of another, exists under United States law. A homicide may be considered justified if it is done to prevent a very serious crime, such as rape, armed robbery, manslaughter or murder"

    justifiable homiciden. a killing without evil or criminal intent, for which there can be no blame, such as self-defense to protect oneself or toprotect another, or the shooting by a law enforcement officer in fulfilling his/her duties. This is not to be confused with acrime of passion or claim of diminished capacity which refer to defenses aimed at reducing the penalty or degree of crime.
    As i said earlier, yes this thread is about blm which of course i support but the vconversation i was having on here had no mention of white people or black people specifically... As for unjustied, tamir rice the twelve year old who was killed for having a bb gun was shot in Ohio. Ohio is an open carry state, so what law was he allegedly breaking?
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    As i said earlier, yes this thread is about blm which of course i support but the vconversation i was having on here had no mention of white people or black people specifically... As for unjustied, tamir rice the twelve year old who was killed for having a bb gun was shot in Ohio. Ohio is an open carry state, so what law was he allegedly breaking?
    BLM is relevant to white people as white people is what they are protesting essentially.

    As for Tamir Rice... I'm assuming that twelve year old didn't have a licence for that weapon. So the law he was breaking was possession of a dangerous firearm. He also didn't drop the weapon when told to by police officers.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    BLM is relevant to white people as white people is what they are protesting essentially.

    As for Tamir Rice... I'm assuming that twelve year old didn't have a licence for that weapon. So the law he was breaking was possession of a dangerous firearm. He also didn't drop the weapon when told to by police officers.
    Im not 100% on their gun laws but im fairly sure theyre one of the ost liberal about it ie seeing someone carry a gun around is not uncommon at all. Not to mention, that i would like to think that shooting a twelve year old would be a complete last resort, he wasnt even old enough to be totally legally culpable.
    When did i say blm wasnt relevant to white people? Although tney arent protesting white people.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    Im not 100% on their gun laws but im fairly sure theyre one of the ost liberal about it ie seeing someone carry a gun around is not uncommon at all. Not to mention, that i would like to think that shooting a twelve year old would be a complete last resort, he wasnt even old enough to be totally legally culpable.
    When did i say blm wasnt relevant to white people? Although tney arent protesting white people.
    Even with liberal gun laws you still need a licence and they certainly don't hand them to 12 year olds. Yes shooting a kid is obviously a last resort. It isn't a matter of being culpable, it is a matter of public safety. He could have shot another member of public or the police officer. The officer should not be taking risks with his own life or the life of others so he made the call and took the shot. Sometimes its the right call and sometimes its wrong but that decision has to be made and this is a far better outcome than another member of public being shot and the police officer being at fault for inaction.

    You just asked what do white people have to do with blm and now you're agreeing they are linked? Of course they are protesting against white people, the entire movement is based on hating white people. Their co-founder even tweeted about killing all white people.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Even with liberal gun laws you still need a licence and they certainly don't hand them to 12 year olds. Yes shooting a kid is obviously a last resort. It isn't a matter of being culpable, it is a matter of public safety. He could have shot another member of public or the police officer. The officer should not be taking risks with his own life or the life of others so he made the call and took the shot. Sometimes its the right call and sometimes its wrong but that decision has to be made and this is a far better outcome than another member of public being shot and the police officer being at fault for inaction.

    You just asked what do white people have to do with blm and now you're agreeing they are linked? Of course they are protesting against white people, the entire movement is based on hating white people. Their co-founder even tweeted about killing all white people.
    Doesnt seem like they used it as a last resort to me. If someone is armed you need to have an armed response unit who can diffuse the situation without killing people, there are plenty of people who are in jail because they were caught committing crimes with guns, armed robberies and threatening people and the like, so there obviously are ways of dealing with someone having a gun other than just killing them on the spot. Ericx garner is a good example as well, he was strangled to death, thats not a knee jerk reaction or self defense, thats very deliberate.
    ... I didnt ask what white people have to do with blm? And it isnt a movement decoted to hating on white people, its a movement based around tryoing to get people to stop justifying the murded of black people.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    Doesnt seem like they used it as a last resort to me. If someone is armed you need to have an armed response unit who can diffuse the situation without killing people, there are plenty of people who are in jail because they were caught committing crimes with guns, armed robberies and threatening people and the like, so there obviously are ways of dealing with someone having a gun other than just killing them on the spot. Ericx garner is a good example as well, he was strangled to death, thats not a knee jerk reaction or self defense, thats very deliberate.
    ... I didnt ask what white people have to do with blm? And it isnt a movement decoted to hating on white people, its a movement based around tryoing to get people to stop justifying the murded of black people.
    Considering that the vast majority of blacks killed, are killed by other blacks, they should be protesting their own streets an going on marches the end of gang wars and drug dealings.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    There are so many mistruths / lies in the above that it does not warrant a serious reply, never mind the multiple suspect sources. You have referred to the death of several individuals in which I am already aware, cases in which I support the action taken by the police (hence why I can identify the mistruths).
    It's called baffling your opponent with bullshlt, this guy is using his turn to talk to swamp you with as much bullshlt as he can muster up with google lol.

    Responding to it will be so time consuming you wont bother and he can declare victory, I was tempted to respond to something this guy said the other day. I was smart enough not to waste my time.

    And you can bet that if you took the time, he would not acknowledge being wrong in any way and continue to spout nonsense.

    Name:  arguing-with-idiots-is-like-playing-chess-with-a-pigeon.jpg
Views: 33
Size:  50.3 KB
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    Black Lives Matter is a movement with ties to organizations like the Black Panther Party, as well as Barack Obama's White House The media really is cherry-picking stories to certain degree... you hear about Black people getting killed all the time because it creates controversy and debate.

    The statistics don't really match up with the narrative BLM is selling. Most of what they're going on is anecdote and individual cases rather than aggregate tendencies.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    Doesnt seem like they used it as a last resort to me. If someone is armed you need to have an armed response unit who can diffuse the situation without killing people, there are plenty of people who are in jail because they were caught committing crimes with guns, armed robberies and threatening people and the like, so there obviously are ways of dealing with someone having a gun other than just killing them on the spot. Ericx garner is a good example as well, he was strangled to death, thats not a knee jerk reaction or self defense, thats very deliberate.
    ... I didnt ask what white people have to do with blm? And it isnt a movement decoted to hating on white people, its a movement based around tryoing to get people to stop justifying the murded of black people.
    How exactly is having a van full of heavily armed guys going to diffuse a situation? If anything it would scare the kid and if it was a real gun someone could get hurt. Also that officer was in the area, it would have taken at least 20 minutes or more to get an armed response to attend the scene, in that time anything could have happened. You might not agree with how it was dealt with but you're a civilian. You don't need to agree, you aren't trained in these situations so your opinion has no value on the matter.

    As for Eric Garner, sure. It is one of the few situations where the death was not justified. But one case isn't enough to show a trend.

    Some cases are justified. BLM may disagree but that makes them idiots. Nothing more.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I get that, but I can see why they say "blacklivesmatter", because in the end this is unfortunately what seems to need to be most specified to the US police. They really do seem pretty racist.
    And what is the supposition for racism?

    The stats show that violent felons - that is armed killings - are across the board for all races more or less equal. Most people waving a gun at police regardless of race get shot, as would be expected. The killing of non-violent felons - that is unarmed - is also similar across all races. It is more black people as a percentage. Why? Because black people disproportionately commit crime, particularly violent crime. Therefore the police are likely more worried about them - as experience informs reality - but this is not racist, there is no record of them blasting a well dressed, suited, polite black person in the employ of a reputable company simply for being black. Criminals disproportionately, in fact overwhelmingly, come from poverty and black people in America have ghetto circumstances due in part to the abolishment of slavery. (note slavery was not an exclusively black problem and was not a racist issue, it was a colonialist issue. people wanted labour and stuff and denied the agency of others to get it. Ancient Persia was built on slaves for example, they were all black or middle eastern with maybe a few greeks, point being slavery was not racially motivated. When this was realised to be kind of BS around the enlightenment it was abolished).

    This doesnt give amnesty from their own agency and actions but it shows a clear reason for the pure number of black people who are shot by police being as high as it is. They also disproportionately kill people from detroit because it has a massive amount of crime, thats not 'detroitist' or discriminatory, its a reality. The logical refutation to this is usually what about the six year old disabled girl or some such to which my response is youtube 'police shoot [race]' 'police shoot [animal]' 'police abuse/beat/mistreat [race/gender] and all will turn up hundreds of searches. American police are trained to be hyperviolent (due in no small part to everyone having guns) and this results in constant misapplications of power - particularly against the poor who they see as criminals due to their actually being a correlation. I've no doubt you've heard in passing 'x is a bad area/estate' or 'dont go to y you'll get stabbed' and this colloquial representation is known to police also, who use it to inform their responses. Its not about race. Are some officers racist? Probably but racism isnt exclusively towards black people. Does that allow them to gun down the race they dont like without consequence? Objectively no, officers get convicted for wrongful shootings.

    As for BlackLivesMatter, its activists and the activities that surround it are far from the noble goals they frame it as. Johnathan Butler is a liar, he made up an assault to strongarm power away from the faculty. As for the way the organisation portrays itself see below

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifH998pT7pU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNRKvjThTwg

    and as the media shows in video 2, journalism feeds the bias and misrepresents the reality. BLM is all a party to this ridiculous behaviour and therefore is not a positive action.
 
 
 
Poll
Do I go to The Streets tomorrow night?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.