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    (Original post by QE2)
    Ah! So when you said "The western world is at war with the Muslim world", you actually meant "selected countries are bombing ISIS positions in Syria".

    OK, cool.
    I agree with you.
    Yes I did. Just as World War I and II did not involve every country in the world in active combat.
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    (Original post by chemting)
    Not to discriminate against the Shias, I believe they think it is compulsory.
    Ah, I failed to ask childofthesun the obvious follow-up question. This is why I don't study law. :sigh:

    childofthesun, sorry if this is too personal (and you don't have to answer if you don't want to), but would you decide to circumcise your future hypothetical son(s), if it wasn't medically necessary? :holmes:
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    And circumcision hurts the person if is being done to. If you doubt me, just use a pair of scissors to make a little snick in your foreskin, and then get back to me. Oh, of course, you can't.
    As with most surgical procedures, they do use anaesthesia to numb the area...

    If you have no experience of having a foreskin, how can you make a judgement as to the effect of its removal on your life?
    So we can only make judgements about things we have personally experienced? Have you been circumcised?
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Ah, I failed to ask childofthesun the obvious follow-up question. This is why I don't study law. :sigh:

    childofthesun, sorry if this is too personal (and you don't have to answer if you don't want to), but would you decide to circumcise your future hypothetical son(s), if it wasn't medically necessary? :holmes:
    I'm unsure
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    I made no such argument, so I don't know what you're talking about? There is evidence that points towards health benefits, and at the same time there is contradictory evidence, which is why I said there's no definite conclusion. I never once said that circumcision objectively has health benefits.
    So, as you say that there is no definitive conclusion, the sensible decision would be not to make any irremediable choice.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    As with most surgical procedures, they do use anaesthesia to numb the area...
    My best friend who had a circumcision for medical reasons could not walk for three weeks because of the pain.

    Pain outlasts anesthesia.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    My best friend who had a circumcision for medical reasons could not walk for three weeks because of the pain.

    Pain outlasts anesthesia.
    Thats the reason why people do it when he is young, less painful.
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    Thats the reason why people do it when he is young, less painful.
    Babies don't feel pain?
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    Thats the reason why people do it when he is young, less painful.
    Yeah, and also he can't object if you're doing it for absolutely no reason.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Babies don't feel pain?
    No its less painful. Maybe because babies penis foreskin are not fully developed.

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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Yeah, and also he can't object if you're doing it for absolutely no reason.
    Unfortunately that is also a problem. Performing circumcision on babies also mean the child don't get to decide.

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    (Original post by Josb)
    My best friend who had a circumcision for medical reasons could not walk for three weeks because of the pain.
    My nephew was circumcised as a baby. He was a little tender when changing his nappy (which is completely normal) but that subsided in a matter of days..


    Pain outlasts anesthesia.
    no not necessarily. It's dependent on many factors.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    My nephew was circumcised as a baby. He was a little tender when changing his nappy (which is completely normal) but that subsided in a matter of days..

    no not necessarily. It's dependent on many factors.
    Well anaesthesia will be less time than pain 'cause anaesthesia only lasts marginally longer than the operation. Analgesia to control the pain from thereon in taken regularly obviously can cover a longer period of pain relief.

    It also depends on the success of the circumcision. As with any surgical operation there is the risk of mortality and risks of complications. Circumcision has a relatively low complication risk and a very low mortality rate. However you can argue that as a strictly unnecessary intervention in almost every case (there are various medical conditions that can be solved via circumcision, usually as an adult), every single complication and death from circumcision is completely avoidable.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    As with most surgical procedures, they do use anaesthesia to numb the area...
    oh right, and that makes MGM just a-okay ethically, doesn't it?
    seriously: why can't you just think morally for once in your life? why can't you just be moral? I don't understand
    if I was saying this about FGM you'd be outraged and baffled. I am just as baffled about your justifications of MGM
    but you're saying that the male gender should/can be mutilated at birth, whereas *I'm* not saying that for your gender.
    this is purely a demonstration of cultural misandry. you are offering no other explanation. the justification isn't scientific (as you've suggested a few days ago). it's cultural.
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    oh right, and that makes MGM just a-okay ethically, doesn't it?
    seriously: why can't you just think morally for once in your life? why can't you just be moral? I don't understand
    if I was saying this about FGM you'd be outraged and baffled. I am just as baffled about your justifications of MGM
    but you're saying that my gender should/can be mutilated at birth, whereas *I'm* not saying that for your gender.
    this is purely a demonstration of cultural misandry. you are offering no other explanation. the justification isn't scientific (as you've suggested a few days ago). it's cultural.
    If you bothered to read the conversation before ranting, you'd see that I was simply informing him that the pain from circumcision is significantly reduced due to the use of an anaesthetic, since he appeared to be under the impression that nothing is used to numb the area.

    I have explained my reasonings several times throughout this long thread, not that I needed to.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If you bothered to read the conversation before ranting, you'd see that I was simply informing him that the pain from circumcision is significantly reduced due to the use of an anaesthetic, since he appeared to be under the impression that nothing is used to numb the area.
    right, so what if FGM was done under anaesthetic then? see, why are you even referring to this as if this is significant? it fails to justify it so why even bother?
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    right, so what if FGM was done under anaesthetic then? see, why are you even referring to this as if this is significant? it fails to justify it so why even bother?
    I referred to it because someone previously made a comment that circumcision has to 'obviously' be very painful because we wouldn't be able to conduct it at home on our own without being in excruciating pain. This isn't true. (That's like saying getting your tooth pulled would obviously be painful because we wouldn't be able to do it painlessly without medical intervention, but if it were conducted by a dentist, they would numb the area so you wouldn't feel it.) Anyway, I then informed him that the procedure wouldn't actually be that painful because an anaesthetic is used.

    Even if FGM was conducted under anaesthetic in a clean and sterile environment, the risks would still be substantial. I already explained that earlier on.

    Seriously, read the comments already posted before annoying me with repetitive questions.
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    1) even with anasthetic, they still feel pain. how powerful do you take this anasthetic to be? :| like I told you the other day, even with the anasthetic, some babes scream so hard via the circumcision pain that they blow out their lungs
    Did I say they won't feel pain?
    You can't really conclude that the pain from the circumcision itself is what causes them to 'blow out their lungs'. It could be that they are being temporarily cared for by someone that they're unfamiliar with, it could be that they're startled from being laid down in an unfamiliar environment, it could be the temperature of the numbing cream, it could be that some babies naturally cry more than others. It could be a combination of all of those factors.

    with a result of reduced sexual pleasure.
    Can't confirm this either. There are too many variables.
    it's the violation of the child's right to determine their own religion in the future too, seeing as a circumcision is essentially the branding of a child, forever (medically speaking), as a jew, or as a muslim (etc).
    Not true. Being circumcised doesn't mean you're bound to religion forever. That's not a requirement. There are religious people who are not circumcised just like there are non religious people who are. Religious parents will subconsciously raise their child in a similar environment that they were raised in. That doesn't make them bad parents. It means they're raising the child in the best way that they feel/the best way that they know. It doesn't just boil down to circumcision. It's everything. The food they eat, the clothes they wear, the friends they have, the social activities they're a part of etc. That is their right as a parent. As a stranger, as long as the children are well taken care of, it's really none of your business.

    no. you're only saying this because it's not practised in societies that have professional or hygienic medical environments. there's nothing inherently worse than cutting off, say, the labia minora, than cutting off the foreskin. that is a *type* of FGM.
    Again, revert back.

    nah - that's your burden. I shouldn't be expected to ****ing trace you.
    Then don't quote me. Nobody asked you to.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Did I say they won't feel pain?
    You can't really conclude that the pain from the circumcision itself is what causes them to 'blow out their lungs'. It could be that they are being temporarily cared for by someone that they're unfamiliar with, it could be that they're startled from being laid down in an unfamiliar environment, it could be the temperature of the numbing cream, it could be that some babies naturally cry more than others. It could be a combination of all of those factors.


    Can't confirm this either. There are too many variables.

    Not true. Being circumcised doesn't mean you're bound to religion forever. That's not a requirement. There are religious people who are not circumcised just like there are non religious people who are. Religious parents will subconsciously raise their child in a similar environment that they were raised in. That doesn't make them bad parents. It means they're raising the child in the best way that they feel/the best way that they know. It doesn't just boil down to circumcision. It's everything. The food they eat, the clothes they wear, the friends they have, the social activities they're a part of etc. That is their right as a parent. As a stranger, as long as the children are well taken care of, it's really none of your business.


    Again, revert back.


    Then don't quote me. Nobody asked you to.
    So you're taking your chances with your child's life?

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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Did I say they won't feel pain?
    You can't really conclude that the pain from the circumcision itself is what causes them to 'blow out their lungs'. It could be that they are being temporarily cared for by someone that they're unfamiliar with, it could be that they're startled from being laid down in an unfamiliar environment, it could be the temperature of the numbing cream, it could be that some babies naturally cry more than others. It could be a combination of all of those factors.


    Can't confirm this either. There are too many variables.

    Not true. Being circumcised doesn't mean you're bound to religion forever. That's not a requirement. There are religious people who are not circumcised just like there are non religious people who are. Religious parents will subconsciously raise their child in a similar environment that they were raised in. That doesn't make them bad parents. It means they're raising the child in the best way that they feel/the best way that they know. It doesn't just boil down to circumcision. It's everything. The food they eat, the clothes they wear, the friends they have, the social activities they're a part of etc. That is their right as a parent. As a stranger, as long as the children are well taken care of, it's really none of your business.


    Again, revert back.


    Then don't quote me. Nobody asked you to.
    Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

    Just admit you're trying to justify what happened to you or someone close to you.

    It's sickening people try find a reason to justify violating a child's body. Remember the ideas behind consent? If for example you consciously have sex with a plastered person, it's rape / sexual assault.

    Same principle here.

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    You can say no.

    You needn't perpetuate the status quo.
 
 
 
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