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Labour MP Jo Cox killed in shooting incident in West Yorkshire watch

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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Shocking. This is really bad. RIP and thoughts with her family etc. We may disagree on how to make the country better but there's no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of MPs get into it to make positive strides. It's a bleak day for all of us when differences in views leads to this.

    While it is clear from all reports that he had mental issues and reports that he had political views and shouted something about Britain First are being disputed, if investigations show that it is indeed a political thing then surely it is a terrorist attack. Hopefully we never ever see anything like this ever again.

    RIP.
    Hear hear. Sad day for us all.

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    To all the remainers who claim that remainers are not cashing in on this: daily star front page headline in massive font: MP dead after attack by Brexit gunman

    I can only hope that this comes to haunt them.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Yes, it's noteworthy that ALL of the main media are repeating the claim, clearly they have strong reasons for believing it to be true.
    Find the actual quotes, you wont be able to.
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    (Original post by Sun_Bear)
    To all the remainers who claim that remainers are not cashing in on this: daily star front page headline in massive font: MP dead after attack by Brexit gunman

    I can only hope that this comes to haunt them.
    They really have hit a new low.

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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Says someone who is racist and homophobic.
    wrong & wrong.

    I'm guessing you are both things though.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    They really have hit a new low.

    http://i.imgur.com/X2zAbCR.jpg
    I just pray that people see past this and get turned of by the remain campaign. It's gonna suck come next week and we narrowly lose because of this..
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    And in your topsy-turvy world, in which one can implicate someone in a murder by yelling their organisation's name before committing it, like some sort of conjurer, and in which this can be extended ad infinitum to anyone whom any implicated party has ever supported, this is enough to implicate UKIP in the killing.

    I'd like to take this opportunity to state that I, as a Leave supporter, mourn and condemn this killing, but I don't feel a jot of responsibility for it, and I don't see why Nigel Farage or any member of the Tory right should either. None of them have, to my knowledge and presumably anyone else's (or we'd have seen it in the press today), condoned or encouraged this sort of behaviour, and all of them are perfectly entitled to express their discontent with a remote system of government that quietly, insidiously accrues powers to itself and keeps us from exercising sensible border controls without taking responsibility for whatever any nutter who shares one or two sentiments with them takes it entirely upon himself to do.

    Now, if you have any evidence to present that Britain First has encouraged violence I'd be happy to see it. That could reasonably be taken to implicate the group in violence. But you haven't bothered with that. Equally, if you'd like to argue that they are a generally hateful bunch, I'm sure you could make quite a reasonable place. That is entirely different thing from claiming that they are in any way responsible for this killing. So far you've shown nothing at all to support that, and a big, Thornberry-esque picture of an undesirable-looking working class bloke certainly isn't sufficient in itself.
    Why are you bothering? According to her, when a right wing person commits an atrocity, it is inspiration from the right which is at fault. When a left wing person commits an atrocity, it is inspiration from the right as well. I'm not being facetious, this is literally what she thinks and you can check other threads to confirm this. There's no point in trying to make such people see sense. But it doesn't matter.

    There is hatred and stoking up flames from all sorts of creatures. If this guy was influenced by a Paul Golding type then we must look at that seriously. All right-minded people are quick enough to consider apportioning some blame to Islamist scumbag imams and hate preachers when a Muslim commits terrorism when it's clear the influence was there so let's be consistent, apply the same principles and ask the difficult questions with honesty. If this was politically motivated, it is a terrorist attack. Let's have some integrity. FoS never had any in the first place but I urge you to recojsider. I can't stand that wretched horror Emily Thornberry at all by the way and I agree the person you're responding to is of the same cloth but don't let that cloud any judgments on the issue itself.

    Kim.
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    It has been reported, though I'm unsure what credence to give the reports, that the perpetrator shouted "Britain First" during the attack
    Does it even matter if it's true or not, any negative impact on Britain first is good
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Why are you bothering? According to her, when a right wing person commits an atrocity, it is inspiration from the right which is at fault. When a left wing person commits an atrocity, it is inspiration from the right as well. I'm not being facetious, this is literally what she thinks and you can check other threads to confirm this. There's no point in trying to make such people see sense. But it doesn't matter.

    There is hatred and stoking up flames from all sorts of creatures. If this guy was influenced by a Paul Golding type then we must look at that seriously. All right-minded people are quick enough to consider apportioning some blame to Islamist scumbag imams and hate preachers when a Muslim commits terrorism when it's clear the influence was there so let's be consistent, apply the same principles and ask the difficult questions with honesty. If this was politically motivated, it is a terrorist attack. Let's have some integrity. FoS never had any in the first place but I urge you to recojsider. I can't stand that wretched horror Emily Thornberry at all by the way and I agree the person you're responding to is of the same cloth but don't let that cloud any judgments on the issue itself.

    Kim.
    Oh, I'm quite happy to call it a 'terrorist' attack. I just don't think anything turns on the point of whether we call it 'terrorism' or not. I feel the same way about shootings like Orlando. I'm also happy to concede that it was probably politically motivated; as I said earlier in the thread, I think he probably was mentally ill, but that doesn't mean he wasn't actuated by his political beliefs. I'm more concerned about how broadly people seem to be spreading responsibility for this specific attack on the basis of that motivation.

    I think the Islamist preachers comparison is probably a fair one, although I think the point about them is that they're often setting out an explicitly violent anti-Western rhetoric. Perhaps I would consider them to be implicated in such an attack even if they didn't encourage violence directly, and so maybe I should take the argument in relation to Britain First more seriously, but, as I pointed out, no-one seems to have bothered to flesh out the connection beyond 'they aren't the biggest fans of immigration'. In any event, I don't think any of these reflects upon Nigel Farage or the Tory Party, whose immigration rhetoric I think has been perfectly civil.
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    (Original post by WalkingAbortion)
    fascist scum like you people are responsible for her death
    FFS, please tell me you're joking?!?
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Oh, I'm quite happy to call it a 'terrorist' attack. I just don't think anything turns on the point of whether we call it 'terrorism' or not. I feel the same way about shootings like Orlando. I'm also happy to concede that it was probably politically motivated; as I said earlier in the thread, I think he probably was mentally ill, but that doesn't mean he wasn't actuated by his political beliefs. I'm more concerned about how broadly people seem to be spreading responsibility for this specific attack on the basis of that motivation.

    I think the Islamist preachers comparison is probably a fair one, although I think the point about them is that they're often setting out an explicitly violent anti-Western rhetoric. Perhaps I would consider them to be implicated in such an attack even if they didn't encourage violence directly, and so maybe I should take the argument in relation to Britain First more seriously, but, as I pointed out, no-one seems to have bothered to flesh out the connection beyond 'they aren't the biggest fans of immigration'. In any event, I don't think any of these reflects upon Nigel Farage or the Tory Party, whose immigration rhetoric I think has been perfectly civil.
    I agree with you but I haven't seen many people actually blame UKIP or the Tories.

    It's more to do with the increased aggressiveness and violence of both the hard right and hard left. The huge amounts of rape and death threats in the last year directed towards MPs has been telling.

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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    They really have hit a new low.

    mate. Its the Daily Star. No one reads that ****.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I agree with you but I haven't seen many people actually blame UKIP or the Tories.

    It's more to do with the increased aggressiveness and violence of both the hard right and hard left. The huge amounts of rape and death threats in the last year directed towards MPs has been telling.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    It does mostly seem to be FoS who is trying to make that connection.

    I have seen some people talk about how this can be linked to the Leave campaign, though, and how that may make them think differently about the referendum, whereas to me allowing your opinion to be swayed either way by the deranged actions of this lone gunman would be mad in itself.

    I broadly agree re the increasing aggressiveness on both extremes. It has become trite to comment on the rise of Trump and Sanders and Corbyn and such like recently. It could be that this is what drove this man to murder Jo Cox, but given that this shooting is still, thankfully, an anomaly, i wouldn't want to try to extrapolate too much from it.
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

    "Eyewitness Clarke Rothwell says he saw a man holding a gun and shouting "Britain first or put Britain first""
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    (Original post by jneill)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

    "Eyewitness Clarke Rothwell says he saw a man holding a gun and shouting "Britain first or put Britain first""
    Hasn't it been retracted?
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Hasn't it been retracted?
    That's a current link with a video of him being interviewed - so, no.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    It does mostly seem to be FoS who is trying to make that connection.

    I have seen some people talk about how this can be linked to the Leave campaign, though, and how that may make them think differently about the referendum, whereas to me allowing your opinion to be swayed either way by the deranged actions of this lone gunman would be mad in itself.

    I broadly agree re the increasing aggressiveness on both extremes. It has become trite to comment on the rise of Trump and Sanders and Corbyn and such like recently. It could be that this is what drove this man to murder Jo Cox, but given that this shooting is still, thankfully, an anomaly, i wouldn't want to try to extrapolate too much from it.
    I agree but it is still a very dark day.
    I feel that both extremes have tried to whip up hate for all politicians. Its fine to question someone's opinions but increasingly the extremes are seeing all politicians as these greedy, elitist, horrible folk trying to ruin the country etc.

    It's what encourages people to make rape and death threats, it's what encourages Trump supporters to violently lash out at politicial opponents, it's what encourages violence at political protests.

    I won't blame UKIP for this attack at all, but I would argue that they, along with the far left encourage people to view politicians as inherently evil and awful people, which in my view contributes to this culture of aggression, if not this attack.

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    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...jo-cox-8213363
    His half-brother is mixed race and claims he wasn't racist or had any extreme views about Britain.

    Although neighbours do claim he was a weirdo and had OCD.
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    And again, the questions remains, how can a man labelled as a 'weirdo' get his hands on a gun.
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    Bad day for leave campaign today to what had the potential to be another rocket with 2 new phone polls giving leave the lead :'(
    Although Nigel's new poster has elements of truth to it i feel it seems a very ugly message to the potential don't knows and other people who support remain. I believe that he could have got out the message in a more tasteful and professional manner which would have been a good reinforcement to the powerful last week. Combine this with the killing of Jo Cox, i have a feeling much of the general public will look unfavourably on the leave campaign. I hope that we don't look upon this day in a weeks time and think this is where it fell apart...
 
 
 
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