TSR Med Students' Society Part VI

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Four things that unis think matter more than league tables 08-12-2016
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    (Original post by Natalierm2707)
    According to our assessments handbook we get 2 formative (november and march) and then 1 summative with a greatly adjusted pass rate to meet a year 2 standard. I personally think its a little odd to test us on clinical material in pre-clinical years especially considering some people could fail the year due to it, but I suppose it is good practice.My only worry is not being up to scratch knowledge wise...according to the manual for 3rd year we have 40% based on an ISCE then the remainder based on the progress test (so year 5 finals) and an end of pre-clinical science exam. I do think the progress test will form a much smaller part of our overall mark for the year though.
    That is literally a waste of time. Assessment theory over practice. Sit an exam that is inappropriate, but lower the pass mark to a ridiculously low level to make up for the fact that the students don't know the content of the exam. It's bonkers. If they want to introduce some clinical questions, they should just put them into the year exams and then Angoff the questions like they would anyway. I'd be interested to see if there's an evidence base behind that type of assessment.

    Assessment drives learning, so all they're going to achieve is people cramming random clinical medicine facts without any context (and then subsequently forgetting them) and without the benefit of a structured programme of learning (i.e. ... the clinical years of medicine). Similar vein why everybody on here tells pre-freshers not to cram random physiology facts - it's pointless.

    Rant over...
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    (Original post by Beska)
    That is literally a waste of time. Assessment theory over practice. Sit an exam that is inappropriate, but lower the pass mark to a ridiculously low level to make up for the fact that the students don't know the content of the exam. It's bonkers. If they want to introduce some clinical questions, they should just put them into the year exams and then Angoff the questions like they would anyway. I'd be interested to see if there's an evidence base behind that type of assessment.

    Assessment drives learning, so all they're going to achieve is people cramming random clinical medicine facts without any context (and then subsequently forgetting them) and without the benefit of a structured programme of learning (i.e. ... the clinical years of medicine). Similar vein why everybody on here tells pre-freshers not to cram random physiology facts - it's pointless.

    Rant over...
    PRSOM. It seems like a stupid idea everywhere that does it - what is the point in testing first/second years on final year knowledge, rather than using exams to make sure that they've got a good working understanding of what they're supposed to have covered THAT year?
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    (Original post by Beska)
    Might as well just give finals students a summative MRCP paper to "see how they do"....
    Was a significantly easier exam tbh with you! For me the challenge of the MRCP is doing it after you've had 15 months+ of mind-numbing TTO writing/phlebotomy and your only study leave has been denied!
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    (Original post by Helenia)
    PRSOM. It seems like a stupid idea everywhere that does it - what is the point in testing first/second years on final year knowledge, rather than using exams to make sure that they've got a good working understanding of what they're supposed to have covered THAT year?
    To be fair, this is what Exeter and Plymouth (the old Peninsula) do from the very beginning. There *is* an end of year exam in Year 1 (in addition to the finals style exams), but from then on, it's purely clinical style questions. You'e measured against your year, with a certain percentage failing.

    There is an evidence base to this kind of assessment I've been told, and I actually quite enjoy being assessed in such a way.
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    (Original post by navarre)
    To be fair, this is what Exeter and Plymouth (the old Peninsula) do from the very beginning. There *is* an end of year exam in Year 1 (in addition to the finals style exams), but from then on, it's purely clinical style questions. You'e measured against your year, with a certain percentage failing.

    There is an evidence base to this kind of assessment I've been told, and I actually quite enjoy being assessed in such a way.
    They used to have it where a certain percentage failed every year (which I also think is a stupid system), but they had to change it a few years back after some people failed 4th year with a mark that would have passed them if they had been in 5th year. Which I think just furthert emphasises what a dumb idea the whole thing is
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    (Original post by Ghotay)
    They used to have it where a certain percentage failed every year (which I also think is a stupid system), but they had to change it a few years back after some people failed 4th year with a mark that would have passed them if they had been in 5th year. Which I think just furthert emphasises what a dumb idea the whole thing is
    We still have that system, they lowered the threshold for yellow cards at osces too

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    (Original post by nexttime)
    Discovers potential cure for malaria using charity-donated money. Publishes paper in a journal that extremely few in malaria-endemic countries will be able to afford. At least the database might be accessible (?)

    Let's hope they don't make the devastating decision to do the same with the human trials.
    Er, not sure about the point you're making here? The pre-print PDF is freely available online (as far as I can see) and the Gates foundation have a mandatory open-access policy on all research publications based on work funded by them. Also, researchers in most malaria-affected countries should be able to access it for free using the WHO HINARI initiative (by which publishers give free or low-cost access to readers/institutions in low-income countries).

    Not that the science publishers aren't evil bastards, but give credit/blame where it's due.
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    (Original post by navarre)
    To be fair, this is what Exeter and Plymouth (the old Peninsula) do from the very beginning. There *is* an end of year exam in Year 1 (in addition to the finals style exams), but from then on, it's purely clinical style questions. You'e measured against your year, with a certain percentage failing.

    There is an evidence base to this kind of assessment I've been told, and I actually quite enjoy being assessed in such a way.
    I know they do, it just doesn't make sense to me.
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    Just lol.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...es-health.html
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    I am going into clinics in September! I just realised... if the strikes go head, 15 days of my term 1 will be when junior doctors go on strike! People who had placements last time strikes were going on: what happened to you on those days? Were you told to go home, or stay regardless?
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    (Original post by Cephalosporin)
    I am going into clinics in September! I just realised... if the strikes go head, 15 days of my term 1 will be when junior doctors go on strike! People who had placements last time strikes were going on: what happened to you on those days? Were you told to go home, or stay regardless?
    I think our Med school encouraged us to go in as we'll be under the cover of a consultant but we had the option not to go in. Some clinics got cancelled so we didn't have to go in at all.

    If the December strikes go ahead I think I'll have to go in as I can't afford to miss 5 days of placement lol
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    (Original post by Cephalosporin)
    I am going into clinics in September! I just realised... if the strikes go head, 15 days of my term 1 will be when junior doctors go on strike! People who had placements last time strikes were going on: what happened to you on those days? Were you told to go home, or stay regardless?
    Each trust had its own policy, so the Leeds trust had all students in regardless (the main trust at my uni) and to be fair most others had students in, just a few exceptions.


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    Even if your placement clinics are cancelled, it wouldn't hurt you to go and support the picket lines rather than staying in bed...
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    (Original post by Cephalosporin)
    I am going into clinics in September! I just realised... if the strikes go head, 15 days of my term 1 will be when junior doctors go on strike! People who had placements last time strikes were going on: what happened to you on those days? Were you told to go home, or stay regardless?
    Go out on strike with the doctors

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    Those who are striking are protecting YOUR rights at work as a future doctor, please everyone go out, support the doctors and let them know they have student support. Not apathy

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    (Original post by Cephalosporin)
    I am going into clinics in September! I just realised... if the strikes go head, 15 days of my term 1 will be when junior doctors go on strike! People who had placements last time strikes were going on: what happened to you on those days? Were you told to go home, or stay regardless?
    We didn't go in. Our med school was fairly supportive, but I wouldn't have gone in even if they hadn't been unless they'd explicitly threatened us with having to repeat the year or something.

    Sitting in someone's clinic (though I doubt there will be that many running - consultants will have other things to do) is one thing, but going onto the wards would've felt like trying to undermine the (necessary) disruption caused by the striking to me.

    I went to stand on the picket lines for a few hours every day of the strikes when I was a student; that's what I'd do come strike week if I were you.
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    (Original post by Cephalosporin)
    I am going into clinics in September! I just realised... if the strikes go head, 15 days of my term 1 will be when junior doctors go on strike! People who had placements last time strikes were going on: what happened to you on those days? Were you told to go home, or stay regardless?
    We were given the option of attending schedules teaching/clinics/wards or not coming in so long as we let teaching staff know not to expect us. I spent the strikes on the picket line personally.

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    My placements right now are too short to have 5 days out and still get everything done to pass. So my plan is to come in unless I'm told not to, but go out and support the picket lines whenever I can (eg. cancelled clinic, arrive early, lunchtime etc) and not undermine the strike when I am in, so I'll sit in on running clinics and hunt out patients who can give me a history for my logbook, but not do things that would minimise the disruption unless it's absolutely necessary to pass the rotation.
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    (Original post by Cephalosporin)
    I am going into clinics in September! I just realised... if the strikes go head, 15 days of my term 1 will be when junior doctors go on strike! People who had placements last time strikes were going on: what happened to you on those days? Were you told to go home, or stay regardless?
    We've been told not to go in in the past by our med school or placement hospital. So I've gone to the picket lines a couple of times. I think as a fifth year I'll be going to the picket lines this time around too.


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    (Original post by Cephalosporin)
    I am going into clinics in September! I just realised... if the strikes go head, 15 days of my term 1 will be when junior doctors go on strike! People who had placements last time strikes were going on: what happened to you on those days? Were you told to go home, or stay regardless?
    We were actually banned from the clinical environment during the strike action last year. The reasoning was that the increased pressure on the wards might put us in a position where we are asked to do things that are outside of our competency. That said, I'm not sure what their plans would be in the face of 5-day strike action...I really don't want to miss that much placement :/
 
 
 
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