The Commons Bar Mk XIII - MHoC Chat Thread

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Four things that unis think matter more than league tables 08-12-2016
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Okay, Jeremy. Very funny but enough now. After work drinks are not sexist for bally goodness sake

    http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/02/corbyn.../?ito=facebook
    Don't you know everything is sexist?

    If anything is sexist it's his comments.
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    So Lucus is back (co-) leading the greens.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    So Lucus is back (co-) leading the greens.
    She is indeed. I don't know much about the other leader though.
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    A surprisingly convincing defence of Georgie Boys time as Chancellor:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...e-now-theresa/
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    She is indeed. I don't know much about the other leader though.
    I honestly hadn't head of him before.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    She is indeed. I don't know much about the other leader though.
    Their DWP spokesperson if I remember correctly, know nothing about him beyond that though
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Their DWP spokesperson if I remember correctly, know nothing about him beyond that though
    Ah ok. I'm surprised she didn't run with someone a little more senior but I'll remain open-minded.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Ah ok. I'm surprised she didn't run with someone a little more senior but I'll remain open-minded.
    It's the Greens tbf, they don't exactly have many senior politicians
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    It's the Greens tbf, they don't exactly have many senior politicians
    True.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Ah ok. I'm surprised she didn't run with someone a little more senior but I'll remain open-minded.
    Apparently he's made news headlines for attacking DC back in 2010 and has helped the greens make major electoral gains so he's pretty good.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Okay, Jeremy. Very funny but enough now. After work drinks are not sexist for bally goodness sake

    http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/02/corbyn.../?ito=facebook
    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    The worst thing is, it's so easy to form his point into a much more coherent policy. *

    Despite equality under the law, women still face barriers to advancement at work, especially where they are the primary carers of young children. Social events after work hours areach a part of this problem: they present an ideal opportunity for networking and demonstrating personal qualities, but are often held at times and places which make it impossible to attend with children. Therefore, I will be investigating whether we can encourage venues for these events to relax rules on the presence of children where they are adequately supervised by a responsible adult - as well as investing as already announced in subsided childcare services to ensure parents have the room to enjoy their own lives while they work so hard to further the future of their children.

    But no. What do we get? Ban after work drinks. Ffs.
    If you were going to tackle such barriers at work, would you not start with corporate hospitality, such as free seats in a box at a rugby or football match? These are much more likely to discriminate as not everyone is likely to be invited.
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    So Nick Clegg has written an article today absolutely ****ging off the
    Tories and accusing them of purposely focusing their cuts on Labour type voters. He also said he regrets raising tuition fees.

    It's a good read but I find it hard to believe him. He allowed the Tories to push through near enough every cut, he jumped on the bandwagon of blaming Labour for the financial crash. The Lib Dems were set up to oppose the Tories and by the end they were indistinguishable, the only difference being that they were Pro Europe.

    I'll still always maintain that it was a huge mistake for the Lib Dems to go in to coalition with the Tories. Lib Dems and Labour together had over 50% of the national vote. They were growing hugely and had they either stayed in opposition or joined with Labour they would have fared far better, I said it at the time and still do.

    Blair put it best, a party that campaigned from the left of Labour three elections in a row hopped in with the Tories as soon as the bug ministerial salaries became available.

    Nick Clegg was one of the most popular and we'll trusted politicians in early 2010. Has he been more principled and not bent over backwards for them, he could still have mattered. Instead he's been chewed up and spat out by the very party he had propped up and supported for 5 years.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So Nick Clegg has written an article today absolutely ****ging off the
    Tories and accusing them of purposely focusing their cuts on Labour type voters. He also said he regrets raising tuition fees.

    It's a good read but I find it hard to believe him. He allowed the Tories to push through near enough every cut, he jumped on the bandwagon of blaming Labour for the financial crash. The Lib Dems were set up to oppose the Tories and by the end they were indistinguishable, the only difference being that they were Pro Europe.

    I'll still always maintain that it was a huge mistake for the Lib Dems to go in to coalition with the Tories. Lib Dems and Labour together had over 50% of the national vote. They were growing hugely and had they either stayed in opposition or joined with Labour they would have fared far better, I said it at the time and still do.

    Blair put it best, a party that campaigned from the left of Labour three elections in a row hopped in with the Tories as soon as the bug ministerial salaries became available.

    Nick Clegg was one of the most popular and we'll trusted politicians in early 2010. Has he been more principled and not bent over backwards for them, he could still have mattered. Instead he's been chewed up and spat out by the very party he had propped up and supported for 5 years.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I'll tell you where you're wrong here, at least, from the perspective of a Lib Dem.

    We didn't allow almost every cut to go through. Granted, we should have stopped more, but at one point we even threatened to veto an entire Autumn statement unless it was changed (and it was). I believe it was 2012 but I might be mistaken.

    As for having over 50% of the national vote, I'm sure we only had 49% combined (26 for Labour, 23 for LDs) but that's just off the top of my head. Regardless, it would have meant two things:

    A) We would have had to have included other smaller parties to make up the seats
    B) The Party that the public indicated won the election would not end up in Government.

    I'd argue there is a massive difference between the parties still. It's just that the Tories took credit for every single LD policy that worked out well (I.e Pupil Premium, Personal Allowance, 5p Carrier bag charge, etc).

    We didn't go into Government for the salary. We went into Government for power. Clegg is right when he says it has almost become fashionable to not want power. The Lib Dems wanted the power to actually implement their policies for once, and if you look through our 2010 manifesto at our policies, we largely managed to do just that.


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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I'll tell you where you're wrong here, at least, from the perspective of a Lib Dem.

    We didn't allow almost every cut to go through. Granted, we should have stopped more, but at one point we even threatened to veto an entire Autumn statement unless it was changed (and it was). I believe it was 2012 but I might be mistaken.

    As for having over 50% of the national vote, I'm sure we only had 49% combined (26 for Labour, 23 for LDs) but that's just off the top of my head. Regardless, it would have meant two things:

    A) We would have had to have included other smaller parties to make up the seats
    B) The Party that the public indicated won the election would not end up in Government.

    I'd argue there is a massive difference between the parties still. It's just that the Tories took credit for every single LD policy that worked out well (I.e Pupil Premium, Personal Allowance, 5p Carrier bag charge, etc).

    We didn't go into Government for the salary. We went into Government for power. Clegg is right when he says it has almost become fashionable to not want power. The Lib Dems wanted the power to actually implement their policies for once, and if you look through our 2010 manifesto at our policies, we largely managed to do just that.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Anyone who starts with from a Lib Dem perspective is just plain wrong though, so...
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    Speaking as a Tory who sympathetic to them, the biggest mistake they made from 2014 onward was to not follow through and embrace the successes of the coalition. They basically started to tell people that all the hard decisions that had been made were Tory ones and that their coalition partners were nasty capitalists .

    If you know you've lost the left, you should go after the right. Instead, they got neither.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I'll tell you where you're wrong here, at least, from the perspective of a Lib Dem.

    We didn't allow almost every cut to go through. Granted, we should have stopped more, but at one point we even threatened to veto an entire Autumn statement unless it was changed (and it was). I believe it was 2012 but I might be mistaken.

    As for having over 50% of the national vote, I'm sure we only had 49% combined (26 for Labour, 23 for LDs) but that's just off the top of my head. Regardless, it would have meant two things:

    A) We would have had to have included other smaller parties to make up the seats
    B) The Party that the public indicated won the election would not end up in Government.

    I'd argue there is a massive difference between the parties still. It's just that the Tories took credit for every single LD policy that worked out well (I.e Pupil Premium, Personal Allowance, 5p Carrier bag charge, etc).

    We didn't go into Government for the salary. We went into Government for power. Clegg is right when he says it has almost become fashionable to not want power. The Lib Dems wanted the power to actually implement their policies for once, and if you look through our 2010 manifesto at our policies, we largely managed to do just that.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I think we will find out over time the things that the Lib Dems stopped happening, at least for five years. Though had the EU referendum happened even a couple of years earlier, we would have voted to Remain I am sure.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    I think we will find out over time the things that the Lib Dems stopped happening, at least for five years. Though had the EU referendum happened even a couple of years earlier, we would have voted to Remain I am sure.
    *
    I think the two big things at the moment that we stopped would be repealing the Human Rights Act and implementing the Snooper's Charter, though Labour haven't been any help on the latter.


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    Here's the thing though: you didn't stop any of them. On the contrary, you enabled the Tories to win a majority and push them through. They could never have won the last election outright without the collapse in the LD vote caused by your failures in coalition. Your decision in 2010 absolutely changed history in a massive way.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Here's the thing though: you didn't stop any of them. On the contrary, you enabled the Tories to win a majority and push them through. They could never have won the last election outright without the collapse in the LD vote caused by your failures in coalition. Your decision in 2010 absolutely changed history in a massive way.
    We didn't enable a Tory majority. The electorate did by voting for them. That's democracy.

    Our failure, as Rakas said earlier, was trying way too hard to distance ourselves from the coalition, which meant that we got very little credit for the good stuff we did.


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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Here's the thing though: you didn't stop any of them. On the contrary, you enabled the Tories to win a majority and push them through. They could never have won the last election outright without the collapse in the LD vote caused by your failures in coalition. Your decision in 2010 absolutely changed history in a massive way.
    To be fair that is then the paradox of blame. If I break the law clearly it's my fault but I could blame my mother for giving birth to me, thus enabling the crime. By this logic I can blame the SDP for our current Tory government because they merged with the liberals to create the liberal democrats.
 
 
 
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