There is no evidence for God

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    Hasn't this thread been done to death already?
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    I also wish you well. BTW, I think the only person who will burn in hell is Satan.
    What? Sounds like universalism...

    (Original post by jdizzle12345)
    What will happen to heretics like me, then?
    Well regardless of the sin, you need Jesus. Without him, you "stand[s] condemned already", as John 3:18 says.

    in other words, we deserve to die because we have sinned. Without Jesus, you will get the punishment for your sin, which is death. What's death? Well we aren't sure about the details, but it involves hell, and it's a punishment.

    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    Heresy is just another sin like stealing, murder, and bearing false witness. What is sin? Anything that prevents us from standing in the presence of God ,which is, BTW, his whole goal.
    Nope, that's not true. God didn't send his son to die on the cross solely to give us the chance to be with him. He did it to demonstrate his attributes. He did it to bring glory to himself. (Isaiah 11:9, Jeremiah 31:33-34). The gospel demonstrates his mercy, his love, his power, his wrath, his justice, lots of different attributes all in one gospel. He also did it to carry out his will through people.

    Yes, God does care about us. He came to give those who are weary rest, he came to heal the sick, to wipe away all tears etc. But the world does not revolve around mankind. It revolves around God (obviously not literally, before someone makes the joke)..

    The mind of man is the culmination of his creation. I personally can't see him creating something so near to his heart, with the very characteristics that will allow it to fail, (choice), and then sentence it to eternal suffering for failing.
    So because you wouldn't punish people eternally, God wouldn't...? You are also suggesting that people aren't to blame for their sins. On what basis can you assert that?

    Are you suggesting that you don't deserve eternal suffering? Please explain how.

    Your question was, what will happen to heretics like me, (us). Probably the same thing that will happen to every body else who has the ability to take responsibility for their soul. I think that through living this life, getting old and dying then, at the proper time ,seeing everything the way we were meant to see and understand it ,will,(should ), be enough to straighten us out. If you think about it, knowing you were going to love forever would take a lot of the allure of most sins away. I think.

    if your like me, heresy is the least of your problems.
    To answer that question, let me quote Jesus:
    "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."
    "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."
    "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’"
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    I'm literally right here. :hi:
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    (Original post by █▓▒░│۞│░▒▓█)
    I'm literally right here. :hi:
    So how do you feel about the gays?

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    (Original post by RobML)
    So how do you feel about the gays?

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    Homosexuals shouldn't walk into stones. It's disrespectful to the natural world. Other than that I say live and let live. Now I must rest. :bath:
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    (Original post by █▓▒░│۞│░▒▓█)
    Homosexuals shouldn't walk into stones. It's disrespectful to the natural world. Other than that I say live and let live. Now I must rest. :bath:
    You could not be more wrong.

    Plenty of animal species are known to engage in homosexual acts. Plenty of human civilizations did, too - look at the Greek for starters.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    To comfort them??? To hear you talk, people should only fear God. Many do. Why would someone continually worship and devote a large part of their life to if it was so easily explained away with science and logic. That doesn't make sense.
    But science can't yet explain the exact origins of the universe.

    And you must be one the naivest people ever. Or just a theist...

    Science does explain many things, such as evolution, and many religious people and many leading religious institutions now accept it as true, and have in one way or another incorporated it their mantra somehow reconciling it with their scripture.

    And yet you will find plenty of people in say America's Bible Belt that teach their kids creationism. How a country like America can let scores of its children be brought up brainwashed at school like that...now that, that doesn't make sense.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    I don't believe there is a "point" to my life. The only purpose I'm aware of is to perhaps harm no one, remain aware that God created me and to show a little appreciation for that fact.

    Do you think there is a point to your life? If not are you sad or disappointed your life is meaningless?
    You have an important roll on earth my friend. You don't have to be conscious of your roll but you mustn't forget that the greatest test you'll ever face has already been passed and you did it without a brain. That concludes meaning. There is no point to my life. I've been placed inside the universe and am apart of it which is as vast, as are you. The "point" is of a class bacteria won't even measure. Free will.
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    (Original post by Pride)
    What? Sounds like universalism...



    Well regardless of the sin, you need Jesus. Without him, you "stand[s] condemned already", as John 3:18 says.

    in other words, we deserve to die because we have sinned. Without Jesus, you will get the punishment for your sin, which is death. What's death? Well we aren't sure about the details, but it involves hell, and it's a punishment.



    Nope, that's not true. God didn't send his son to die on the cross solely to give us the chance to be with him. He did it to demonstrate his attributes. He did it to bring glory to himself. (Isaiah 11:9, Jeremiah 31:33-34). The gospel demonstrates his mercy, his love, his power, his wrath, his justice, lots of different attributes all in one gospel. He also did it to carry out his will through people.

    Yes, God does care about us. He came to give those who are weary rest, he came to heal the sick, to wipe away all tears etc. But the world does not revolve around mankind. It revolves around God (obviously not literally, before someone makes the joke)..



    So because you wouldn't punish people eternally, God wouldn't...? You are also suggesting that people aren't to blame for their sins. On what basis can you assert that?

    Are you suggesting that you don't deserve eternal suffering? Please explain how.



    To answer that question, let me quote Jesus:
    "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."
    "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."
    "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’"
    ".....only those who do the will of my father in heaven." The only command that I can think of would be Love God and love your neighbor. Aren't all the commands summed up in that one command?

    Jesus said no man will enter heaven except through him. How can you say Jews won't enter thru him? Or Muslims, We are told we have Gods commands written on our hearts and it is our hearts that convict us.
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    IMO, I think belief stems from humans' inherent need for explanations/rationalizations and fear of the unknown, and has nothing to do with organized religion. This is not a bad thing. We all strive for structure, struggle for some understanding of our world and lives. For some people this structure comes from the knowledge of the natural laws of the universe whereas from others it is an entity that embodies these laws. Some even gain structure by believing that this entity has a hand in human affairs. This is, folks, my personal understanding of belief.

    It's when belief for comfort and peace of mind morphs into an aggressive/violent/corrupt agenda/ambition as is the case with certain groups within organized religion, is when it turns unnecessary and twisted. I (an atheist) also disagree with pouring huge financial resources (which could be put to better use elsewhere, such as education/development) into public worship/offerings etc. I also think that children should be allowed to make up their own mind about God.

    All said and done, I don't have a problem with people believing what they will as long it harms no one in any way whatsoever. Nobody has the right to try and impose their beliefs on another. It is a serious breach of personal space for anyone to do so.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    You could not be more wrong.

    Plenty of animal species are known to engage in homosexual acts. Plenty of human civilizations did, too - look at the Greek for starters.
    Stupid humans always trying to challenge me. I clearly said live and let live. Animals both human and non-human can do what they want. After all I am a laissez-faire God. :dice:
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    ".....only those who do the will of my father in heaven." The only command that I can think of would be Love God and love your neighbor. Aren't all the commands summed up in that one command?

    Jesus said no man will enter heaven except through him. How can you say Jews won't enter thru him? Or Muslims, We are told we have Gods commands written on our hearts and it is our hearts that convict us.
    I think if you look at the context of when Jesus said that, and then at the wider context of his ministry, you will see things very differently.

    I can back up everything I am now going to say with biblical references, if you want to do some further reading. Just ask.

    The reason why Jesus explained what the two most important commandments were, was to demonstrate to the people that they were sinners. It wasn't just a meaningless "Golden Rule". You have to understand that within the context, he was speaking to Jews. The Jews were waiting for "the Chosen One" or "the Messiah", as prophesied in their scriptures, written at least centuries before. He was the one they were waiting for.

    The Messiah would come and save them from their sins, through faith in him. Not by adherence to the law of God - nobody could do that perfectly. Otherwise, Jesus would not have to die on the cross as a sacrifice for sin. The whole point was to help them see that nobody was good enough to meet the standard of God. Therefore, God had to provide the means to reconcile mankind back to himself.

    Jesus showed that if they would "believe" or trust in him, and they would be saved from the judgement that they deserve. This is because the righteousness of Jesus himself would be "imputed" or attributed to the believer. This is why Romans 4 says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Abraham was a Jew who lived many years before Jesus. It was not about him obeying God's laws - he'd broken lots of them, so he was still guilty. It was about trusting in the promises of God - through that faith, the righteousness of Jesus was imputed to Abraham's account.

    Notice, Jesus said "Come to me, all who are weary, and I will give you rest." This is the point. Jesus came to bring people who are broken out of their mess, because they could not do it themselves. The whole thing is a rescue mission. He is definitely not saying "if you follow all my commandments, you will please God enough to make it into heaven." or "follow my most important commandments, and you will be saved." He's showing them what is right and wrong, and calling them to turn from their evil, so that they can believe in him, their only hope.

    One more illustration: Imagine you had committed a crime like fraud. Say the judge sentences you to jail. Then you say to the judge, "I know I committed fraud that one time, but look at all the good things I did as well. I gave to charity. I loved everybody as I love myself..." and you went on and on, listing the great things you did.

    What would a just judge do? Well he would say, "Well done for doing those good things, but you can't bribe me with those, you must suffer the just penalty for your crimes." Then he would send you to jail.

    It's the same with God. You still get punished, unless you trust Jesus to freely take the punishment you deserve.
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    (Original post by faby96)
    There is no evidence that there is no God. So there.
    "God" does not even qualify as a hypothesis, as a hypothesis is "Used loosely, a tentative conjecture explaining an observation, phenomenon or scientific problem that can be tested by further observation, investigation and/or experimentation."

    For "god" to be a null hypothesis, it would have to be considered a possible explanation: a "god", as a supernatural entity, cannot qualify because a supernatural phenomenon is necessarily an oxymoron.

    We can safely say that so-called "supernatural phenomena" such as gods have no observable effect on the natural world whatsoever, and never will.
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    (Original post by Pride)
    The reason why Jesus explained what the two most important commandments were, was to demonstrate to the people that they were sinners. It wasn't just a meaningless "Golden Rule". You have to understand that within the context, he was speaking to Jews. The Jews were waiting for "the Chosen One" or "the Messiah", as prophesied in their scriptures, written at least centuries before. He was the one they were waiting for.

    The Messiah would come and save them from their sins, through faith in him. Not by adherence to the law of God - nobody could do that perfectly.
    The most important commandments were written with the finger of God on two tablets of stone. Jews were not waiting somebody who denies the Laws of God.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    But science can't yet explain the exact origins of the universe.

    And you must be one the naivest people ever. Or just a theist...

    Science does explain many things, such as evolution, and many religious people and many leading religious institutions now accept it as true, and have in one way or another incorporated it their mantra somehow reconciling it with their scripture.

    And yet you will find plenty of people in say America's Bible Belt that teach their kids creationism. How a country like America can let scores of its children be brought up brainwashed at school like that...now that, that doesn't make sense.
    what is your opinion of big bang theory?
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    (Original post by Onde)
    "God" does not even qualify as a hypothesis, as a hypothesis is "Used loosely, a tentative conjecture explaining an observation, phenomenon or scientific problem that can be tested by further observation, investigation and/or experimentation."

    For "god" to be a null hypothesis, it would have to be considered a possible explanation: a "god", as a supernatural entity, cannot qualify because a supernatural phenomenon is necessarily an oxymoron.

    We can safely say that so-called "supernatural phenomena" such as gods have no observable effect on the natural world whatsoever, and never will.
    how might one observe what they would not know how to observe nor notice that which needs to be observed?

    if one may consider God, how would one be able to conjure or imagine possible ways God would/could influence the world we can observe?
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    (Original post by admonit)
    The most important commandments were written with the finger of God on two tablets of stone. Jews were not waiting somebody who denies the Laws of God.
    The two most important commandments were quoted from the Torah itself - Leviticus 19 and Deuteronomy 6.

    He did not deny the Law. Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets [the Torah and the Nevi'im]; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

    I would ask you this. How do you know the ten commandments are the most important commandments? Do all ten of them hold the same weight on that list? If not, how would you know how to rank them in terms of importance/seriousness if disobeyed?
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    how might one observe what they would not know how to observe nor notice that which needs to be observed?

    if one may consider God, how would one be able to conjure or imagine possible ways God would/could influence the world we can observe?
    That's the pivotal question. It's the begging the question fallacy that I keep talking about, only disguised.
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    (Original post by Pride)
    What? Sounds like universalism...



    Well regardless of the sin, you need Jesus. Without him, you "stand[s] condemned already", as John 3:18 says.

    in other words, we deserve to die because we have sinned. Without Jesus, you will get the punishment for your sin, which is death. What's death? Well we aren't sure about the details, but it involves hell, and it's a punishment.



    Nope, that's not true. God didn't send his son to die on the cross solely to give us the chance to be with him. He did it to demonstrate his attributes. He did it to bring glory to himself. (Isaiah 11:9, Jeremiah 31:33-34). The gospel demonstrates his mercy, his love, his power, his wrath, his justice, lots of different attributes all in one gospel. He also did it to carry out his will through people.

    Yes, God does care about us. He came to give those who are weary rest, he came to heal the sick, to wipe away all tears etc. But the world does not revolve around mankind. It revolves around God (obviously not literally, before someone makes the joke)..



    So because you wouldn't punish people eternally, God wouldn't...? You are also suggesting that people aren't to blame for their sins. On what basis can you assert that?

    Are you suggesting that you don't deserve eternal suffering? Please explain how.



    To answer that question, let me quote Jesus:
    "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."
    "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."
    "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’"
    We certainly have different views on man and his importance to God.
    The mind of man, I believe, is the only reason for the creation. Of all the living things on the planet only man's mind can appreciate it. Of course he did it for his glory, but only man can give him glory.

    I certainly don't think i deserve eternal punishment for my sins. I've done nothing here on Earth to deserve anything close to death and I'm sure God is more just than man.
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    (Original post by Pride)
    The two most important commandments were quoted from the Torah itself - Leviticus 19 and Deuteronomy 6.
    They were not quoted but rephrased.
    He did not deny the Law. Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets [the Torah and the Nevi'im]; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
    Yes, Jesus said that and at the same time he denied the Law.
    I would ask you this. How do you know the ten commandments are the most important commandments?
    Because they were written by God on two tablets of stone.
    Do all ten of them hold the same weight on that list? If not, how would you know how to rank them in terms of importance/seriousness if disobeyed?
    The importance of a commandment corresponds to its number in the Decalogue.
 
 
 
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