Should women earn as much as men? Watch

WithFlyingColours
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#481
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Actually it was Mathematics where the whole lot came out of pretty much, engineers merely built some of the infrastructure. Though I hope you are not going to be allowed to build anything other than fences, given your own chronic lack of linguistic ability and therefore ability to follow instructions properly, I fear anything larger, and you will become a killer, as opposed merely sticking a nail in your hand.
You show a severe misunderstanding of what an engineer actually is, and what they do.
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Bornstubborn
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#482
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#482
(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Its a possibility, I might get there and decide otherwise.

Engineering applies a very small area of maths, compared to the whole body. In fact computer science was carried out in Mathematics departments up until recently. Nothing at all do with engineering. Engineers merely put the cables up and printed the circuit boards. The actually original and intelligent part came from mathematicians. To be short, there is a difference between designing a car and screwing it together.

The 8 forms of intelligence is another bit of poor educational theory that is built on the nonsense idea that everyone can succeed and do well academically. Some people just cannot. Asides building fences makes you a mechanic, not an engineer really.

GCSE maths is how difficult exactly? I would regard passing it as nearly meaningless, given you only need 15% its not too hard to teach a 6 yo to do it. Though its rather pointless.

Lots of people go to top universities. It doesn't mean that all of them are going to be any good, or even get through the course. You should see the wastage rates for some science courses, engineering included.

Are you trying to show how little you know about engineering? Its the engineers who design cars and its manufacturing plants where they are mass produced by line people.

Do you honestly believe mathematicians are designing cars? Where do they get their knowledge of material science? You need to think about what you type.

I used to build fence's in a job not for my course. I did enjoy that job aswell. Why are you convinced i am a mechanic?

I think if you are taught maths and principle's of maths at a young age it helps you deal with even a lot more complicated maths than you ever did as a child. As i said i find maths a lot easier than other people seem to.

Yes, Engineering has a high drop out rate. I am a very dedicated student though.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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#483
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
Are you trying to show how little you know about engineering? Its the engineers who design cars and its manufacturing plants where they are mass produced by line people.

Do you honestly believe mathematicians are designing cars? Where do they get their knowledge of material science? You need to think about what you type.
Ever heard of analogy... :yawn:

If you havent, you better get learning. Otherwise you will fail.
I used to build fence's in a job not for my course. I did enjoy that job aswell. Why are you convinced i am a mechanic?
You are probably smart enough to be an engineer, basically.
I think if you are taught maths and principle's of maths at a young age it helps you deal with even a lot more complicated maths than you ever did as a child. As i said i find maths a lot easier than other people seem to.
I would say the opposite from experience. If you know the basics effectively almost by intuition, then your strategies for learning the stuff past intuition tend to be not as well constructed, and it takes time to develop them.
Yes, Engineering has a high drop out rate. I am a very dedicated student though.
Its not just dedication that can be a barrier, most drop outs fail the course due to lack of ability.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
You show a severe misunderstanding of what an engineer actually is, and what they do.
Really? What would happen if this guy were to say, misapply an algorithm because he didn't understand it properly. The bridge he was then designing falls down once "built". What do we say, whoopsie?
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WithFlyingColours
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Really? What would happen if this guy were to say, misapply an algorithm because he didn't understand it properly. The bridge he was then designing falls down once "built". What do we say, whoopsie?
For a start, engineers have to be very competent at maths and applying it. Engineers design pretty much everything you can think of. You seem to think that engineers are the ones who physically make things. Incorrect.

Engineers solve a lot of problems encountered in the modern world (like designing wings for aircraft that are good at both high and low speeds) by using their inherent mathematical, analytical and logical minds.
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Reblet
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
To be honest i find it odd that someone who disregards the value of IQ tests seems to have so much pride in such a high IQ score. You can believe what you wish about my IQ score, curiously i find the idea that you scored as high as a genius to be a joke. I have learned that when discussing on the internet its best to take what you hear with a pinch of salt. Afterall you are hardly a genius. If you were such a genius you wouldn't be on such a soft course.

English literature is a joke of a subject. All you have to do is interperet a poem and no answer is wrong. Its known as a soft subject for a reason.

Your career options are more open than mine, sure you can get a job as a secetary, or work in a call centre, or as a PA, or write for a magazine etc However your job opportunities are no where near the level mine will be.
It really does qaulify you for nothing, you're right. Maybe you can become my PA one day.

My comment about Ally Mcbeal is a joke about how popular law has become with girls. Curiously that applies to you aswell. Do i sound like the guy who watches trashy womens tv? I listen to thrash metal.

I am doing Mechanical Engineering at a top 3 uni for the subject. Thanks.
I've already told you that I don't believe in IQ and I don't think I'm a genius by any means. I didn't actually want to say my IQ but as you asked, I replied. I'm sorry if I have shaken your faith in a ridiculous notion that you can measure intelligence through a meaningless series of questions that vaguely measure problem solving... And how does my degree option prove I'm not intelligent? I could have done any course I wanted to. I chose English, I could have chosen History/Maths/Law and at GCSE my Maths teacher tried to persuade me to be the first person in four years to carry Maths all the way to degree level (I'd been doing GCSE maths mocks since Year 8 so they wanted me to take it early but I wanted to take it at the same time as everyone else). Maths was utterly dull, especially as Maths is a subject some people really have problems with so lessons were so slow I actually wanted to die a bit... Anyway my point being that I could have carried on with Maths and maybe gone to a mid-ranking uni for it but I would have hated every minute. Whilst I'm now going to a top ten uni for a course I adore and will love every second! So what did you get for English GCSE then? Was it so soft you got full marks?

I would rather swallow battery acid than ever come and work for someone like you. I actually already have a couple of career options open thanks to a well spent gap year and neither of them are in the fields you've mentioned. Everyone else accepts English is a good degree, get out of the 20s and accept it too. It's not "known as a soft subject" by anyone actually... It's no Media Studies (no offence to anyone taking MS!)

And strange how you know so much about Ally McBeal without actually watching it... Hmmm... Why is it a problem women are involved more in Law/Medicine? Earlier you were dismissing women for chosing soft career options so why do you find it a problem that women are drawn to them? Medicine and Law are two of the best options one can make, certainly better than Engineering. If someone says their son/daughter is a lawyer/doctor I'm impressed, if they say they're in engineering...

And you listen to thrash metal hey? Hardcore... :rolleyes: Which top three institution and top three in who's books?

I've never had such an unfulfilling debate, it's like arguing with a petulant (bigoted) child! haha.
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Reblet
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#487
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#487
(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
For a start, engineers have to be very competent at maths and applying it. Engineers design pretty much everything you can think of. You seem to think that engineers are the ones who physically make things. Incorrect.

Engineers solve a lot of problems encountered in the modern world (like designing wings for aircraft that are good at both high and low speeds) by using their inherent mathematical, analytical and logical minds.
One of my friends who did Engineering did a placement with the RAF. Was the only time I thought what a great subject it was. haha.

But HMK you can't dismiss Engineering as an essential and valuable course. However, I also fail to see how an Engineer can look down on other courses just because their career paths are more clearly defined... The only people I think have it 100% sorted after degrees anyway are Medics, Vetinary Scientists and dentistry students. In fact dentistry is the highest earner in your first year after uni... Why don't I want to look into people's mouths? :rolleyes: haha.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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#488
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#488
(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
For a start, engineers have to be very competent at maths and applying it. Engineers design pretty much everything you can think of. You seem to think that engineers are the ones who physically make things. Incorrect.

Engineers solve a lot of problems encountered in the modern world (like designing wings for aircraft that are good at both high and low speeds) by using their inherent mathematical, analytical and logical minds.
Some good engineers get that opportunity. Others are not employed in anything massively taxing...
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Reblet)
One of my friends who did Engineering did a placement with the RAF. Was the only time I thought what a great subject it was. haha.

But HMK you can't dismiss Engineering as an essential and valuable course. However, I also fail to see how an Engineer can look down on other courses just because their career paths are more clearly defined... The only people I think have it 100% sorted after degrees anyway are Medics, Vetinary Scientists and dentistry students. In fact dentistry is the highest earner in your first year after uni... Why don't I want to look into people's mouths? :rolleyes: haha.
Where exactly did I dismiss engineering? I merely pointed out it wasn't as good as a maths degree, and many would agree with that assessment.

As for dentistry, the competition is surprisingly weak, at least by looking at some of the numpties that got offers in my year.
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Reblet
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You didn't actually dismiss it, it was just implicit in your argument. Maths is a good degree and may be marginally better than Engineering... Who really cares? Careers are a good three years off...

My friend got into dentistry with terrible grades... It's amazingly worthwhile if you can stand the actual job... Eurgh...
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Reblet)
You didn't actually dismiss it, it was just implicit in your argument. Maths is a good degree and may be marginally better than Engineering... Who really cares? Careers are a good three years off...

My friend got into dentistry with terrible grades... It's amazingly worthwhile if you can stand the actual job... Eurgh...
Lots of things are implicit in my arguments. But that's not really the point. Careers are looming more quickly than you might think, its a real pain in the arse not knowing what you want to do. In effect, you have **** all to aim for.

Some of the future dentists and doctors horrify me...
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Reblet
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I'll think it over some time next year... But I am indecisive so I may still be deciding in ten more years...

And yes some medics will be scary doctors...
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Reblet)
I'll think it over some time next year... But I am indecisive so I may still be deciding in ten more years...

My fear. Damn, I wish I knew what I wanted, and relate it to what i feasibly get. Unfortuantly I dont even know what options are on the table.
And yes some medics will be scary doctors...
Yup. Better hope my friend doesn't blow up a hospital inadvertently.
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WithFlyingColours
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Some good engineers get that opportunity. Others are not employed in anything massively taxing...
Funny you should say that, because a high proportion of engineering graduates actually get finance jobs in the city (London) - certainly not low pay and more taxing than most jobs. The maths engineers study is considered adequate for such jobs and my maths teacher actually studied Electronic Engineering at university, so I can't see what benefits mathematicians have over engineers?
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
Funny you should say that, because a high proportion of engineering graduates actually get finance jobs in the city (London) - certainly not low pay and more taxing than most jobs. The maths engineers study is considered adequate for such jobs and my maths teacher actually studied Electronic Engineering at university, so I can't see what benefits mathematicians have over engineers?
I cited stats earlier on that prove on average Mathematicians get the most amount of financial benefit over any other degree.
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Bornstubborn
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#496
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Ever heard of analogy... :yawn:

If you havent, you better get learning. Otherwise you will fail.

You are probably smart enough to be an engineer, basically.

I would say the opposite from experience. If you know the basics effectively almost by intuition, then your strategies for learning the stuff past intuition tend to be not as well constructed, and it takes time to develop them.

Its not just dedication that can be a barrier, most drop outs fail the course due to lack of ability.
I find it curious that you are so sure in my inability. Have you learned so much about me you can decide whether i pass my course or not? I realise you are trying to play mind games, but i think you're a joke.
Perhaps if i was a bit more liberal my chance's of passing the course would increase?
For every positive comment i make about equal rights my grade will increase?

Did you mean not smart enough to be an engineer?

You have a terrible way of thinking. I hope to god you never become a teacher. My dad has always told me if you study hard enough then the course will be easy and so far he's been right.
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Bornstubborn
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#497
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(Original post by Reblet)
I've already told you that I don't believe in IQ and I don't think I'm a genius by any means. I didn't actually want to say my IQ but as you asked, I replied. I'm sorry if I have shaken your faith in a ridiculous notion that you can measure intelligence through a meaningless series of questions that vaguely measure problem solving... And how does my degree option prove I'm not intelligent? I could have done any course I wanted to. I chose English, I could have chosen History/Maths/Law and at GCSE my Maths teacher tried to persuade me to be the first person in four years to carry Maths all the way to degree level (I'd been doing GCSE maths mocks since Year 8 so they wanted me to take it early but I wanted to take it at the same time as everyone else). Maths was utterly dull, especially as Maths is a subject some people really have problems with so lessons were so slow I actually wanted to die a bit... Anyway my point being that I could have carried on with Maths and maybe gone to a mid-ranking uni for it but I would have hated every minute. Whilst I'm now going to a top ten uni for a course I adore and will love every second! So what did you get for English GCSE then? Was it so soft you got full marks?

I would rather swallow battery acid than ever come and work for someone like you. I actually already have a couple of career options open thanks to a well spent gap year and neither of them are in the fields you've mentioned. Everyone else accepts English is a good degree, get out of the 20s and accept it too. It's not "known as a soft subject" by anyone actually... It's no Media Studies (no offence to anyone taking MS!)

And strange how you know so much about Ally McBeal without actually watching it... Hmmm... Why is it a problem women are involved more in Law/Medicine? Earlier you were dismissing women for chosing soft career options so why do you find it a problem that women are drawn to them? Medicine and Law are two of the best options one can make, certainly better than Engineering. If someone says their son/daughter is a lawyer/doctor I'm impressed, if they say they're in engineering...

And you listen to thrash metal hey? Hardcore... :rolleyes: Which top three institution and top three in who's books?

I've never had such an unfulfilling debate, it's like arguing with a petulant (bigoted) child! haha.
Well it has been proven men score on average 5 points more than women. It however has not been proven you have the IQ of a genius.

I got CC at English in highschool. I think highschool is a lot easier for girls though.

I can't imagine why you would hate me so much, getting a job is not hard, well done. You are so over dramatic, i guess thats what soft subjects teach you.

I have seen Ally Mcbeal on TV but i don't watch women's tv. I think it is the best proof that men are smarter than women.

Times university guide.

In many countries engineering is ranked higher than medecine and law. Britain is a little bit backwards, that would probably explain why we have such bad engineering. I don't think much if someone is a lawyer, a doctor is good. However engineering is definetly the top in my eyes and in many other countries. In some countries becoming a doctor isn't ranked as highly as here.
In Russia engineering is ranked very highly and they have just produced the most advanced fighter jet in the world, it really puts us to shame, but atleast we have got lots of lawyers to make a no win no fee compo claim.

Also in other countries only degree level students can hold the level of engineer much in the same way a doctor does, however here any workman claims to be an engineer. Like i said Britain is very backwards.

Its ironic you call me a child, when you display such childish views. You sound like you're fresh out of college.
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Bornstubborn
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#498
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(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
Funny you should say that, because a high proportion of engineering graduates actually get finance jobs in the city (London) - certainly not low pay and more taxing than most jobs. The maths engineers study is considered adequate for such jobs and my maths teacher actually studied Electronic Engineering at university, so I can't see what benefits mathematicians have over engineers?
This guy has no clue about engineering. He thinks engineers work on the line at manufacturing plants. Engineering is a better degree than a maths degree. You are right many Aeronautical engineering students go into the city and make lots of money in financial jobs. I think a lot of maths degree students become teachers.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I find it curious that you are so sure in my inability. Have you learned so much about me you can decide whether i pass my course or not? I realise you are trying to play mind games, but i think you're a joke.
I realise that semi-illiterate engineers are dangerous yes, which is why I hope you don't get any serious responsibility.
Perhaps if i was a bit more liberal my chance's of passing the course would increase?
For every positive comment i make about equal rights my grade will increase?
Nah, we dont have an extra credit system here. Though I hear in the US they have one, and credit was given in Topeka for going on a "God hates ****" protest.
Did you mean not smart enough to be an engineer?
Obviously.
You have a terrible way of thinking. I hope to god you never become a teacher. My dad has always told me if you study hard enough then the course will be easy and so far he's been right.
If you are studying hard the course isn't easy. Easy courses mean you can loaf around for the year.
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Bornstubborn
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#500
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(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
I realise that semi-illiterate engineers are dangerous yes, which is why I hope you don't get any serious responsibility.

Nah, we dont have an extra credit system here. Though I hear in the US they have one, and credit was given in Topeka for going on a "God hates ****" protest.

Obviously.

If you are studying hard the course isn't easy. Easy courses mean you can loaf around for the year.
You have no idea what illiterate is. Ofcourse i will have responsibility because i am very smart.
One of my lecturer's is an engineering genius he builds engine's from scratch in his spare time (he makes every part) and he gave me my 'indevidiual' report. In engineering as a subject many uni's are not that concerned with grammar, they are interested in engineering knowledge.
I think you need to look up what illiterate means.

Ok, well i got a first last year. So perhaps i don't have the ability but all my exams are saying otherwise. But thanks for the vote of confidense.

You really are a freak by the way. Trying to play these weird mind games. I guess you must not realise my determination, people like you are soft compared to me, you are worried about failing in your course, where i know i will pass. Don't apply your weakling logic to me.
My people are some of the highest educated people in this country. You're just a white guy.
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