Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
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NO (632)
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stev43219
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#5001
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#5001
(Original post by Midlander)
Who's been taking backhanders? Care to substantiate?
hEH HEH where to start. The whole of the EU commissioners resigned a few years back headed by Leon Brittain Should Imention the name mandelson Oh dear it just goes on and on and on
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Midlander
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#5002
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#5002
(Original post by stev43219)
hEH HEH where to start. The whole of the EU commissioners resigned a few years back headed by Leon Brittain Should Imention the name mandelson Oh dear it just goes on and on and on
Links to proof of corruption?
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username1332831
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#5003
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#5003
The decision will be made on 18th Sept this year.
Do you think scoltannd will really get independent? And why?
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Seathestars
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#5004
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#5004
I don't think Scotland will get independence and I'm not sure it would necessarily benefit them... but it's not impossible I guess.
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Endless Blue
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#5005
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#5005
There's already a huge thread on this with lots of debate, I'd check that out instead.
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L i b
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#5006
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#5006
Yep, huge thread.

As a Scot, I don't support it at all - in fact, I think it's terrible and divisive: the complete antithesis of my beliefs and values.

Do I think it will happen? Well, if polling it anything to go by, people will vote to remain part of Britain by a large margin. A lot of people are terribly concerned by it and want to make sure it doesn't happen (for example, on the basis of complacency or a low turnout).

I want to ensure that margin is as large as possible, so the idea doesn't come back in my lifetime.
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Snagprophet
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#5007
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#5007
Part of me is curious for it in a nation-building kind of way but I don't support it. The only argument seems to come down to the fact there'll be more oil revenue to spend on a smaller country with less people in but you could take any country like the US and Canada. You can't just split off because you're closer to the resources and want it all yourself.

That said, there's various things many including myself agree with the SNP on, like pushing for more renewable energy like windmills etc. When we can get rid of nuclear waste, I'd be more on board but until then it's good to have a secure backup in case another country ends up holding onto the resources like plutonium etc. Perhaps we'll invent something new like collecting energy from infinite sources.
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Quady
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#5008
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#5008
(Original post by lraul)
The decision will be made on 18th Sept this year.
Do you think scoltannd will really get independent? And why?
Oh I say, another thread on this, how exciting.

No, I don't which is a shame. But I think it'll be closer than most expect (55 v 45 my guess)
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meenu89
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#5009
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#5009
Clear majority for the Union. Salmond a busted flush..
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MatureStudent36
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#5010
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#5010
(Original post by meenu89)
Clear majority for the Union. Salmond a busted flush..
Although I agree with you I'd like to wait until 18 Sep so the nationalists can finally shut up and crawl back from where they came.
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FredOrJohn
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#5011
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Although I agree with you I'd like to wait until 18 Sep so the nationalists can finally shut up and crawl back from where they came.
Thats a tad unfair. There is nothing wrong in nationalism. I mean we're Brits (That a nationalism).. If the Northern Brits feel extremely more Scottish then British so what? The Nordic countries all share common language (within reason they are mutally understandable) - and culture and whatnot but they are relatively happy being seperate....
I'm no Scottish NAtionalist but it is a fair point of view - I don't think "crawl back from where they came" is a nice thing to say.
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Midlander
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Thats a tad unfair. There is nothing wrong in nationalism. I mean we're Brits (That a nationalism).. If the Northern Brits feel extremely more Scottish then British so what? The Nordic countries all share common language (within reason they are mutally understandable) - and culture and whatnot but they are relatively happy being seperate....
I'm no Scottish NAtionalist but it is a fair point of view - I don't think "crawl back from where they came" is a nice thing to say.
I don't think spreading stereotypes about English people is nice either but the SNP boys lap it up.


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L i b
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#5013
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Thats a tad unfair. There is nothing wrong in nationalism. I mean we're Brits (That a nationalism)..
I completely disagree. My loyalty to Britain is down to it being the state I have citizenship and ties of law to, not out of it being some sort of pretendy separate culture or whatever.

I oppose Scottish nationalism strongly. I also oppose British nationalism. I'm outward looking, believe in the EU, believe in greater international co-operation and would rather try to build bonds between people than separate them.
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Gordon1985
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Hi Gordon: From SNP message boards - some want there own currency etc. My family are from renfrewshire but most of us live in and around the London or New York so do not have a vote, but if the seperation goes ahead we will be eligable to get the new passport .....I'm a capitalist so I am theorectically in favour of multiple parliaments I just think the German and Australia federal model looks the best bet for the UK... I guess Scotland being the German equivalent of Bavaria (who also have an indendent movement and would be the 5th richest nation on earth if they seperated from the rest of germany (they are the Catholic bit))....but by and large, like the Scots, the Bavarians are happy the way it is - although they have BMW whereas all Renfrewshire had was the Hillman Imp!
Nobody I've ever heard from the SNP is talking about "total separation" or withdrawing from international organisations. I'd be very surprised if you could find one SNP figure who's ever said anything to that effect.

I'm quite sure that if you qualify for a passport under normal rules, I'm sure you would be elligble for one.

I'd be all for federalism. It's not on the table though and won't be for the forseeble future. The Lib Dems suposedly support it but never actually try and do anything about it.
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Gordon1985
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(Original post by stev43219)
The SNP's constitution has its allegiance to Brussels But that aside Scotland would clearly have to get further into bed with the EU in the deals Salmond would make under the guise of they have to rejoin and so the benefits and concessions like for example the euro could be passed through as well as much closer integration that would have a knock on effect through the whole of the UK. We are stronger together but Im sure many nationilists would rather be in bed with the EU than the UK because of ancient history that has no bearing on reality. Many of us including me have Scottish blood and I couldn't give a fig for history and the flag is a way the politicians control us when they want a war But that aside I do think as a people we are all stronger together.
Here's the SNP's constitution...http://www.snp.org/sites/default/fil...ionalparty.pdf

You won't find anything about an "alligience to Brussels" in there.

So you think Britons are stronger together but Europeans are stronger apart?

No country has been forced to join the Euro. It's highly unlikely, to the point of being insane, to think that Scotland would be given an ultimatum to join the Euro.

Apart from that I can't see how an independent Scotland could get more 'in bed' with the EU than already being in the EU, which we are right now.
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Gordon1985
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(Original post by Midlander)
You'd have to let those pesky RUK students have a free university education or charge your own, for a start.
That's no more or less "directly answerable" than we are at the moment. Scotland within the UK has to follow EU rules on student funding, an independent Scotland would have to follow the same rules.

Any others?
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FredOrJohn
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#5017
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(Original post by Gordon1985)
Here's the SNP's constitution...http://www.snp.org/sites/default/fil...ionalparty.pdf

You won't find anything about an "alligience to Brussels" in there.

So you think Britons are stronger together but Europeans are stronger apart?

No country has been forced to join the Euro. It's highly unlikely, to the point of being insane, to think that Scotland would be given an ultimatum to join the Euro.

Apart from that I can't see how an independent Scotland could get more 'in bed' with the EU than already being in the EU, which we are right now.
Tasmania is stronger (richer) as part of Australia then New Zealand is seperate. I guess that is the nub of the unionist argument. To cut yourself off from the wealth generated by London finance is rather silly.
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Midlander
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(Original post by Gordon1985)
That's no more or less "directly answerable" than we are at the moment. Scotland within the UK has to follow EU rules on student funding, an independent Scotland would have to follow the same rules.

Any others?
Problem is the SNP think they can break laws they don't like-which is where the EU may have some difficulty.


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ihatebrownbread
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#5019
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#5019
Define Scottish.
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FredOrJohn
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#5020
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#5020
Define British (without Ireland)
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