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Midlander
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#5061
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#5061
(Original post by Gordon1985)
Not really. There's still a greater %age of Scottish school leavers going into higher education than in England. The number of instiutions says nothing about the number of places, which is really what matters if you wanted to think about supply and demand.

How exactly does the supply and demand principle affect the actual cost of a degree or the government's ability to cover the cost?

A Scottish degree is usually 4 years as well.
Given that I went to uni in Scotland (and stayed on for PhD which is why I'm still here), I'm well aware of how long it lasts. It doesn't take a major leap of logic to see that more universities leads to more places being available, which leads to less pressure on universities to accept more students than is economical to do so.

English universities could not provide extra places without charging something-and frankly, paying a bit towards a university education isn't all that terrible.


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FredOrJohn
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#5062
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#5062
(Original post by Midlander)
Given that I went to uni in Scotland (and stayed on for PhD which is why I'm still here), I'm well aware of how long it lasts. It doesn't take a major leap of logic to see that more universities leads to more places being available, which leads to less pressure on universities to accept more students than is economical to do so.

English universities could not provide extra places without charging something-and frankly, paying a bit towards a university education isn't all that terrible.
There is a lot of con tricks with tuition fees. Ireland says there is no "Tuition Fees" but they then say you have to pay a "Service Charge" of about £2,500 a year... If you do not want to pay a Tuition Fee and still want to be a Doctor (for example) its pretty simple - just enroll in an English speaking course in the EU for medicine. The Scots will not let us in but the rest of Europe will (I'm not sure what Scottish SNP has against English , Welsh and Northern Irish people - but the rest of the EU are quite happy for us to study in their countries.
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Gordon1985
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#5063
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#5063
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
They're not charged more though
They certainly were a few years ago, was that an attempt to stir up animosity? Is everyone charged the same in England now?
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Gordon1985
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#5064
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#5064
(Original post by Midlander)
Given that I went to uni in Scotland (and stayed on for PhD which is why I'm still here), I'm well aware of how long it lasts. It doesn't take a major leap of logic to see that more universities leads to more places being available, which leads to less pressure on universities to accept more students than is economical to do so.

English universities could not provide extra places without charging something-and frankly, paying a bit towards a university education isn't all that terrible.


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Of course, if you were betting, you'd say that more unis per head means more places per head but that's not necessarily so. Unless you know the average number of places per uni, you have no idea what the supply is like.

You also have no idea about the number of applicants from outside the country so this whole 'there's more demand for places in England' is utterly unfounded by the looks of it.

Are English unis providing "extra" places though. This seems a different argument altogether now. Unis don't just expand to fit the number of applicants.
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Gordon1985
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#5065
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#5065
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
There is a lot of con tricks with tuition fees. Ireland says there is no "Tuition Fees" but they then say you have to pay a "Service Charge" of about £2,500 a year... If you do not want to pay a Tuition Fee and still want to be a Doctor (for example) its pretty simple - just enroll in an English speaking course in the EU for medicine. The Scots will not let us in but the rest of Europe will (I'm not sure what Scottish SNP has against English , Welsh and Northern Irish people - but the rest of the EU are quite happy for us to study in their countries.
There are thousands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish students in Scotland. Stop being such a drama queen.
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Midlander
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#5066
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#5066
(Original post by Gordon1985)
They certainly were a few years ago, was that an attempt to stir up animosity? Is everyone charged the same in England now?
Yes, unless you are from outside the EU.


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FredOrJohn
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#5067
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#5067
(Original post by Gordon1985)
There are thousands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish students in Scotland. Stop being such a drama queen.
Edinburgh Uni say on web "they are biased towards "locals"... Many schools in Southern England (including mine) advise students not to apply for Scottish Unis for courses that are difficult to get in (eg stuff like Medicine).
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Good bloke
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#5068
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#5068
(Original post by Gordon1985)
A Scottish degree is usually 4 years as well.
That is true, though that isn't because a Scottish degree needs more time; it is because the first year of a Scottish degree really only replaces the seventh year of secondary education. It is possible to start in the second year if that isn't needed.
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Gordon1985
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#5069
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#5069
(Original post by Good bloke)
That is true, though that isn't because a Scottish degree needs more time; it is because the first year of a Scottish degree really only replaces the seventh year of secondary education. It is possible to start in the second year if that isn't needed.
True, although it clearly adds to the cost of higher education in Scotland.
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Good bloke
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#5070
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#5070
(Original post by Gordon1985)
True, although it clearly adds to the cost of higher education in Scotland.
But reduces the cost of secondary education; it balances out.
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Midlander
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#5071
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#5071
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Edinburgh Uni say on web "they are biased towards "locals"... Many schools in Southern England (including mine) advise students not to apply for Scottish Unis for courses that are difficult to get in (eg stuff like Medicine).
Edinburgh's bias against English applicants is well known.


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Gordon1985
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#5072
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#5072
(Original post by Midlander)
Edinburgh's bias against English applicants is well known.


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Is it specifically anti-English or just pro-Scottish, because they are different things.
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Gordon1985
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#5073
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#5073
(Original post by Midlander)
Yes, unless you are from outside the EU.


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So that's actually a 'no' then.

Why is different charges based on geographical location (entirely within the law) "stirring up animosity" in Scotland but isn't in England?
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FredOrJohn
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#5074
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#5074
(Original post by Gordon1985)
Is it specifically anti-English or just pro-Scottish, because they are different things.
- Its not pro-scottish, its pro people living in Scotland, its a very different thing.. I'm from a Scottish family but live in southern england
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Gordon1985
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#5075
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#5075
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Edinburgh Uni say on web "they are biased towards "locals"... Many schools in Southern England (including mine) advise students not to apply for Scottish Unis for courses that are difficult to get in (eg stuff like Medicine).
OK, that's Edinburgh University, not the whole country or even the SNP. I went to Edinburgh, there are thousands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish students there. So the claim that Edinburgh University will not let English students in is absurd. Students from the North East of England were given a positive weighting in admissions as well as students from Scotland.
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Gordon1985
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#5076
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#5076
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
- Its not pro-scottish, its pro people living in Scotland, its a very different thing.. I'm from a Scottish family but live in southern england
Well by the same taken 'Scotland and the SNP' don't have anything "against English , Welsh and Northern Irish people", just the people who live in England, Wales and Northern Ireland"?

Although, as we've already established, you're wrong about that too.
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Gordon1985
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#5077
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#5077
(Original post by Good bloke)
But reduces the cost of secondary education; it balances out.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of higher education in Scotland, compared to England, which is what we were talking about.
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Good bloke
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#5078
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#5078
(Original post by Gordon1985)
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of higher education in Scotland, compared to England, which is what we were talking about.
Of course it does! The cost of Scottish tertiary education is raised by ending secondary education a year early. The Scottish government is responsible for all education spending in Scotland.
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Gordon1985
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#5079
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#5079
(Original post by Good bloke)
Of course it does! The cost of Scottish tertiary education is raised by ending secondary education a year early. The Scottish government is responsible for all education spending in Scotland.
*Sigh*

Yes, clearly if Scottish pupils had one more year at secondary school and one less year at university, the cost of higher education would be cheaper in Scotland. I'm not saying this factor doesn't affect the cost. I'm saying that that factor isn't relevant when discussing whether Scottish or English higher education is more expensive, especially from some kind of ridiculous 'supply and demand' point of view.
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FredOrJohn
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#5080
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#5080
(Original post by Gordon1985)
Well by the same taken 'Scotland and the SNP' don't have anything "against English , Welsh and Northern Irish people", just the people who live in England, Wales and Northern Ireland"?

Although, as we've already established, you're wrong about that too.
Who are the "we" - you're not part of the royal family are you?
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