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    Please read the following statement carefully:

    Every Jew wishes that the Nazi Holocaust had been even remotely like Israel's "genocide" of the Palestinians.

    I imagine that the victims of the Rwanda genocide also wish that their genocide had been like that of the Palestinians.

    For those not getting it. The point is that Israel's conflict with the Palestinians has claimed the lives of 22,000 on both sides since 1948. If that is a "genocide" then we need a new word for what happened in the Holocaust and Rwanda (among other places).
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Please read the following statement carefully:

    Every Jew wishes that the Nazi Holocaust had been even remotely like Israel's "genocide" of the Palestinians.

    I imagine that the victims of the Rwanda genocide also wish that their genocide had been like that of the Palestinians.

    For those not getting it. The point is that Israel's conflict with the Palestinians has claimed the lives of 22,000 on both sides since 1948. If that is a "genocide" then we need a new word for what happened in the Holocaust and Rwanda (among other places).
    Quite often people seem to forget that buzzwords like "genocide" even have a accepted definition - I've also seen this phenomenon on threads dealing with what the OP's of those threads called "white genocide". Anyway, the definition of "genocide" is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group". Israel has now killed a large group of people, most of whom are Palestinian, so that qualifies as a genocide. 22,000 is a large group of people! It is made no smaller by the fact that there have, in history, been larger genocides.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    Quite often people seem to forget that buzzwords like "genocide" even have a accepted definition - I've also seen this phenomenon on threads dealing with what the OP's of those threads called "white genocide". Anyway, the definition of "genocide" is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group". Israel has now killed a large group of people, most of whom are Palestinian, so that qualifies as a genocide. 22,000 is a large group of people! It is made no smaller by the fact that there have, in history, been larger genocides.
    In that case there are dozens of genocides going on right now around the world. And Britain committed two in this century - one in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. Do you agree?

    In fact, every war between two different ethnic or national groups would be a genocide. That's pretty stupid and I suspect you know it.
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    (Original post by mxcvii)
    From what I'm aware of this genocide that started about a month ago started because of the 3 Israelies that were kidnapped and murdered. Israel's government blamed Hamas but a couple of days ago I read in an article that Hamas had nothing to do with the kidnapping and murders of the 3 teens. It was a random crime that was committed by some random Palestinian. At the same time when they were killed Israel had no evidence that Hamas killed those 3 teens.
    So what Israel decides to do is bomb the Palestine. Now before I go on any further when the twin towers were bombed it was labelled as a "terrorist act". What the Israelies are doing right now is no different, they are terrorist, in fact Israel has been labelled as a terrorist state a few times now by some politicians. Also don't justify the bombings as "Self Defence" because Israel has killed a dozen times more than than Hamas has.
    Let's look at the figures Israel has killed over 1700+ people mostly civilians, a few thousands injured. Now let's look at how many Israelies have died. To be exact 66 Israelies have died and apparently 60 were soldiers.

    All the Israel has been doing is blaming Hamas for firing rockets, which really didn't kill a no where near as many as Israel soldiers and air missiles have.
    At this point who is "Killing" and who is "Defending . At the end of the day no-one can deny the fact that it's a one way slaughter, at this point can you even blame Hamas for firing rockets that won't do any damage anyway.

    Thats what I think, feel free to comment, sorry for my bad English.

    #freepalestine

    I wouldn't say mass genocide, but their is definitely ethnic cleansing going on.
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    I've noticed there are both pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian supporters on this thread (so will be good to get opinions from both sides). Now being "pro" one side isn't necessarily bad, but often when you support something blindly without recognising your own faults, your ability to critique can be impaired.

    What do you guys think on the below, especially those who are 'pro-Israel'.

    - If you were living under the blockade in Gaza and found diplomacy wasn't working in terms of lifting the blockade, how would you react? How much can you endure before you start to take desperate action?

    - Defining a terrorist is largely influenced by perspective. What one deems a terrorist is someone else's freedom fighter. Now most of the western world recognises Hamas as a terrorist organisation, which gives Israel the "right" to attack it, which is fair enough. Now how do you think the people/governments who view Israel as a terrorist nation should react? Do they have the right to attack it (based on the above rationale)?

    - And thirdly, what are your thoughts on the settlements in the West Bank. There is international consensus that they are illegal. How would you deal with this element?

    Please for the sake of a positive argument, answer honestly. I would appreciate your views. Also apologies in advance if some of this has already been discussed, I haven't followed the thread in its entirety.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    Quite often people seem to forget that buzzwords like "genocide" even have a accepted definition - I've also seen this phenomenon on threads dealing with what the OP's of those threads called "white genocide". Anyway, the definition of "genocide" is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group". Israel has now killed a large group of people, most of whom are Palestinian, so that qualifies as a genocide. 22,000 is a large group of people! It is made no smaller by the fact that there have, in history, been larger genocides.
    It really depends how large you think ''large'' is. 22,000 deaths over 66 years, while tragic, doesn't seem even remotely large when you consider that over 500,000 people (with estimates up to 1,000,000 people) were killed in 100 days during the Rwandan genocide.

    Of course it should go without saying that any conflict which causes death is terrible, but I think you'd be seriously undermining the meaning of the term ''genocide'' if you use it in this (or similar) situations.
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    Watch

    Norman finkelstein on Gaza conflict, Hamas goals and Iron Dome myth

    On RT

    On YouTube.
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    (Original post by jakehoward1)
    I've noticed there are both pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian supporters on this thread (so will be good to get opinions from both sides). Now being "pro" one side isn't necessarily bad, but often when you support something blindly without recognising your own faults, your ability to critique can be impaired.

    What do you guys think on the below, especially those who are 'pro-Israel'.

    - If you were living under the blockade in Gaza and found diplomacy wasn't working in terms of lifting the blockade, how would you react? How much can you endure before you start to take desperate action?

    - Defining a terrorist is largely influenced by perspective. What one deems a terrorist is someone else's freedom fighter. Now most of the western world recognises Hamas as a terrorist organisation, which gives Israel the "right" to attack it, which is fair enough. Now how do you think the people/governments who view Israel as a terrorist nation should react? Do they have the right to attack it (based on the above rationale)?

    - And thirdly, what are your thoughts on the settlements in the West Bank. There is international consensus that they are illegal. How would you deal with this element?

    Please for the sake of a positive argument, answer honestly. I would appreciate your views. Also apologies in advance if some of this has already been discussed, I haven't followed the thread in its entirety.
    I have written a link above...it answers most of your questions.
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    (Original post by Incubator)
    I wouldn't say mass genocide, but their is definitely ethnic cleansing going on.
    I must have missed that. Where has Israel been shipping people from Gaza?

    Oh, that's right. They haven't been. So no genocide and no ethnic cleansing.
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    self defence against a terrorist organisation hell bent on aiming at civilians (Hamas).
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    self defence against a terrorist organisation hell bent on aiming at civilians (Hamas).
    Weren't you calling for genocide in that other thread?
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    (Original post by n00)
    Weren't you calling for genocide in that other thread?
    Nope, making stuff up are we?

    Well either way, most the international community that matters i.e USA, UK, India etc are behind Israel 100% and that's all that matters. Not one section of society which is at the bottom end anyway.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Nope, making stuff up are we?
    Nope, Here you go.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...032&p=49054596
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    right that doesn't say anything? anyway as i was saying:

    most the international community that matters i.e USA, UK, India etc are behind Israel 100% and that's all that matters. Not one section of society which is at the bottom end anyway.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    right that doesn't say anything? anyway as i was saying:
    Sure it does, you were claiming that Moshe Feiglins plan for genocide was moral and justifiable .
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    (Original post by n00)
    Sure it does, you were claiming that Moshe Feiglins plan for genocide was moral and justifiable .
    Not really. I said the use of detention centres for extremists is a plausible approach. But i do like your threads and how you like to create sympathy for "Palestine" or whatever failed state you are trying to raise awareness for.

    But shock horror most of us, the ones that actually matter read books and know the story behind Israel and why its so important to progress. So if you want to follow a backward ideology you will face consequences.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Not really.
    Really, it's right there in that thread.

    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    But i do like your threads
    :blush:


    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    But shock horror most of us, the ones that actually matter read books and know the story behind Israel and why its so important to progress..
    The type of books that talk about Israel carrying out Gods work?

    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    So if you want to follow a backward ideology you will face consequences.
    Ah well it's a good job i don't follow a backward ideology then cos that sounds really scary.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    Quite often people seem to forget that buzzwords like "genocide" even have a accepted definition - I've also seen this phenomenon on threads dealing with what the OP's of those threads called "white genocide". Anyway, the definition of "genocide" is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group". Israel has now killed a large group of people, most of whom are Palestinian, so that qualifies as a genocide. 22,000 is a large group of people! It is made no smaller by the fact that there have, in history, been larger genocides.
    Britain killed 50,000 French civilians by bombing in WWII - is Britain guilty of genocide against France?!

    I can see a reasonable argument - not necessarily a correct one, but one worth taking seriously - that Israel's actions aren't defensive. Believing that they are committing genocide is simply delusional.
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    Of course they are defending, it must get really difficult trying to watch TV in your upper class Israeli home while listening to the sound of the Iron Dome intercepting firecrackers. They have every right to carpet bomb hospitals and UN schools
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    UHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Nobody who is worth taking seriously should be on a 'side' in this conflict. Clearly Israel's response is disproportionate and their use of force excessive, but from the perspective of people living there what they are infact doing is attacking the people who continuously lob rockets into their country, which I can imagine is I were an Israeli being something I would kind of want.

    Nobody is morally correct here, but neither side is evil (well, Hamas is maybe evil, but Hamas is not the Palestinian people).
 
 
 
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