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    (Original post by Hedgeman49)
    Welker actually leads the league in dropped passes this year. He's turned from a must-cover threat into a distinctly average WR. Whilst he puts up insane numbers in terms of yardage, that's only because Brady throws to him ALL THE TIME. He had two key drops in the championship game. He just isn't clutch at all.
    Welker was the 4th most targeted WR in the league, but was tied 2nd for catches. Also, according to the Washington Post Welker was tied 6th for most dropped passes, not first. He had one less drop than Brandon Marshall who had the same number of catches and one less than Calvin Johnson. So in short, Welker isn't really dropping any more balls than any of the top wideouts.

    Initially I thought to myself that Welker relies on easier, underneath routes whereas those other guys have deep route battling with safeties, but then I decided against that rationale because Welker is running the tight, underneath routes where he is getting jackhammered after every catch and has constant pressure in his face. Welker is almost never wide open. Its not unusual to find Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Marshall, Thomas etc to be wide open deep down field for a much slower, arcing ball to drop into their hands. Welker makes tough, gritty catches in the faces of linebackers consistently and deserves respect and payment. Expecting him to make those big catches is unfair because its never been his job. He has only had 10 catches of 20+ yards in his career with the Pats (1.9% of his 550+ catches).

    (Original post by Hedgeman49)
    I guess it's Pats fans that are worse than the Pats themselves, the sense of entitlement, thinking "we deserve to be in the SB every single year". The billboard about Ray's retirement party pretty much sums it up. The only year they weren't like that in recent memory was 2008 after the whole 18-and-d'oh and Brady's injury. I guess this attitude was justified in the early 00s but hey, you guys haven't won one in 8 years now. You're turning into the Dallas Cowboys, living in the 90s.
    So you've based your judgements of the team members and officials as arrogant on their fan base not themselves? Seems a tad unfair. I guess all Millwall's players/coaches/owners are trash because their fans are bad?

    I agree, there are a lot of bandwagon fans and a lot of stupid ones too, every team has them. That billboard was put up by one person, not the entire Pats fan base. Unfortunately, the more successful a team is, the more likely they are to attract the scum of that generation. Knobheads only care about winning, and they bring their ****ey attitudes with them to the team most likely to win. In this generation its the Pats, and pretty soon it will be someone else.

    I certainly don't act like we deserve a SB berth every year, and to be honest I think the claim that most or even a significant portion of pats fan do is dubious. But either way its explainable.

    (Original post by Hedgeman49)
    Yes Brady didn't have the worst game of all time and his first INT was unlucky, but when he IS the Patriots that's not good enough. That picture of him on his ass looking dejected sums it up, he wasn't a leader that night. Flacco on the other hand is looking more and more confident, and is truly leading the offense with the help of Boldin and Rice, and obviously with support from 52 and Reed on the other side of the ball. 52 is doing a great job of handing over the leadership of the team to Flacco.
    Brady doesn't play defense, and to an extent he doesn't call the plays, coach the players, drop the balls, injure his own team mates. Yes he was certainly in part responsible for the loss, but blaming him for what was obviously a team failure is unfair. That "he is the team" comment is unfair too. It isn't his fault we look at him like that. Holding him to account for his own mistakes is fine, but not for the mistakes of others; that's just unreasonable.

    I like Joe Flacco though. I wouldn't have a problem with him getting a ring. Just a shame Lewis and Suggs would get one in the process.

    (Original post by Hedgeman49)
    The Falcons and their fans are well aware of their limitations, and weren't that bad because they respected the 49ers and didn't feel they would breeze the game.
    I also see no substance for your claim that the New England Patriots did. There's a reason Belichick is considered one of the best coaches of all-time, and Brady is often quoted as the ultimate student of the game. It's not all hype. They really do give every game their all. Sometimes their all isn't good enough. I fail to see how not being good enough is 'arrogant'.
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    The game went tits up when Talib left id say. I do agree Welker drops so many balls that are catch-able. He makes the one in the bowl last year we win. Also Hernandez and Lloyd are scared of getting hit. Unlike Gronkowski they wilt when there's a hit coming. I don't think anyone with sense thought the Patriots would cruise considering the Ravens went into Milehigh and won there.
    I quoted another user about the Welker drop situation. See what you think.
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    (Original post by Authority_Song)
    Agree to disagree on Gregory. I don't think he's pro-bowl calibre, but he's decent enough to start for now. A bit of depth to develop would be nice.

    Keep Talib, Woodhead, Arrington (if cheap) - I agree.

    Edelman is a maybe. Again depends on price. I imagine BB will pay for his flexibility.

    Vollmer is up in the air too. He's a good tackle. I stress good. If he wants top-tier tackle money I reckon BB trades him or lets him go depending on if he is up this off season. We have Marcus Cannon who we can develop.

    Don't know much about this Armstead guy, but lets hope BB does.

    Agree about Chung, etc. Also not sure about Welker. I say we keep him. He does his job consistently and has a great rapport and friendship with Brady.
    Edelman i think we will definitely get again for very cheap, lots of injuries leave this guy very little bargaining room with us. Talib i think enjoyed his first post season ever so hopefully he will take a little lower pay to join. Yeah Vollmer i think is a good tackle but BB will not pay him top dollar, the Pats are very good at filling in their offensive line with players and yeah Cannon is pretty good.

    About Armstead, this guy is supposed to be extremely good, was screwed over by USC after they gave him something which caused a heart attack and he wasn't allowed to play that season and no one picked him up in the draft so he went to the CFL and made a huge impression there. Cameron Wake came from the CFL so if Armstead is even half of what Wake is I would be thrilled.

    There's rumors that Jets are looking to let Revis go. If so i think Patriots should let Welker and Vollmer go and get him. Him and Talib as outside corners with Dennard as slot, McCourty and Gregory as the safeties we go from one of the worst pass defenses to :drool:

    Of course we need another rusher though since if theres no pressure on the QB even if you have amazing CB the other team will get open and they can pick us apart.
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    (Original post by Authority_Song)
    I quoted another user about the Welker drop situation. See what you think.
    I guess i agree, could say because Welker didn't make the catch we lost but without all his other catches we wouldn't have made it that far in the end. Agree about how much of a beating he takes from players due to the shorter routes. If Welker takes a smaller cut then resign him.

    I agree about the whole thing about Pats fans you said. One person put that billboard up doesn't make us all think that. Its like saying one Liverpool fan racially abused a player, EVERY LIVERPOOL FAN IS A RACIST! I don't even see why people would wan't to support the Patriots. We haven't won a Superbowl since 2004, regular season always do well but lately post season it goes wrong. If you want Success go for the Steelers, Giants or Packers and such.
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Edelman i think we will definitely get again for very cheap, lots of injuries leave this guy very little bargaining room with us. Talib i think enjoyed his first post season ever so hopefully he will take a little lower pay to join. Yeah Vollmer i think is a good tackle but BB will not pay him top dollar, the Pats are very good at filling in their offensive line with players and yeah Cannon is pretty good.

    About Armstead, this guy is supposed to be extremely good, was screwed over by USC after they gave him something which caused a heart attack and he wasn't allowed to play that season and no one picked him up in the draft so he went to the CFL and made a huge impression there. Cameron Wake came from the CFL so if Armstead is even half of what Wake is I would be thrilled.

    There's rumors that Jets are looking to let Revis go. If so i think Patriots should let Welker and Vollmer go and get him. Him and Talib as outside corners with Dennard as slot, McCourty and Gregory as the safeties we go from one of the worst pass defenses to :drool:

    Of course we need another rusher though since if there's no pressure on the QB even if you have amazing CB the other team will get open and they can pick us apart.
    GAHH its only January and you're getting me worked up about free agency and the draft damn you! I will keep an eye on this Armstead situation in hope it pays dividends.

    Talib seems like a bit of a mercenary character to me. We will find out in due course whether its success or money that drives him. Sadly I think its the latter which will not please BB, but you never know, he might work him down a bit.

    Jets won't trade Revis to a division rival, especially not one as strong as the Pats. We're already streets ahead of them. This would be shooting themselves in the foot with a rocket launcher. Also, chances of BB shelling out is low, and personally I think BB (and me) would rather keep Welker than lose him in place for Revis. That's up for debate though.
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    I guess i agree, could say because Welker didn't make the catch we lost but without all his other catches we wouldn't have made it that far in the end. Agree about how much of a beating he takes from players due to the shorter routes. If Welker takes a smaller cut then resign him.

    I agree about the whole thing about Pats fans you said. One person put that billboard up doesn't make us all think that. Its like saying one Liverpool fan racially abused a player, EVERY LIVERPOOL FAN IS A RACIST! I don't even see why people would wan't to support the Patriots. We haven't won a Superbowl since 2004, regular season always do well but lately post season it goes wrong. If you want Success go for the Steelers, Giants or Packers and such.
    I know some very casual Pats 'fans' they support NE because they have England in their name and for no other reason than that.
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    (Original post by Authority_Song)
    GAHH its only January and you're getting me worked up about free agency and the draft damn you! I will keep an eye on this Armstead situation in hope it pays dividends.

    Talib seems like a bit of a mercenary character to me. We will find out in due course whether its success or money that drives him. Sadly I think its the latter which will not please BB, but you never know, he might work him down a bit.

    Jets won't trade Revis to a division rival, especially not one as strong as the Pats. We're already streets ahead of them. This would be shooting themselves in the foot with a rocket launcher. Also, chances of BB shelling out is low, and personally I think BB (and me) would rather keep Welker than lose him in place for Revis. That's up for debate though.
    Jets are so far in the ****ter in regards to cap i don't think they can be picky. They better just trading him for something then losing him for nothing.Revis has just come back from ACL as well so there's another thing that works against them. Yeah in regards to Armstead he was screwed over and i have high hopes for him. Talib i think has changed to be a little calmer it seems. I think hes been softened by the "Patriot" way.
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    I guess i agree, could say because Welker didn't make the catch we lost but without all his other catches we wouldn't have made it that far in the end. Agree about how much of a beating he takes from players due to the shorter routes. If Welker takes a smaller cut then resign him.

    I agree about the whole thing about Pats fans you said. One person put that billboard up doesn't make us all think that. Its like saying one Liverpool fan racially abused a player, EVERY LIVERPOOL FAN IS A RACIST! I don't even see why people would wan't to support the Patriots. We haven't won a Superbowl since 2004, regular season always do well but lately post season it goes wrong. If you want Success go for the Steelers, Giants or Packers and such.
    I agree. Its hard to know how to feel about it really having never been a fan of another team. Fans of other teams seem to regret the Pats success and have a sort of "you don't know how good you've got it" attitude towards us. Of course it is nice to be consistently talked about as the best and be in the mix for the Superbowl, but I can guarantee than consistently falling short isn't much of thing to brag about. It sucks actually. I'd trade in all our regular season success since 04/05 for another SB. Something that the Colts/Steelers/Giants/Packers have all had. Nobody is talking about those teams being over the hill, or their time running out, or them being failures for not winning it all every year.
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    I know some very casual Pats 'fans' they support NE because they have England in their name and for no other reason than that.
    That's how i picked the Patriots when i was 6 :laugh:
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    (Original post by Authority_Song)
    I agree. Its hard to know how to feel about it really having never been a fan of another team. Fans of other teams seem to regret the Pats success and have a sort of "you don't know how good you've got it" attitude towards us. Of course it is nice to be consistently talked about as the best and be in the mix for the Superbowl, but I can guarantee than consistently falling short isn't much of thing to brag about. It sucks actually. I'd trade in all our regular season success since 04/05 for another SB. Something that the Colts/Steelers/Giants/Packers have all had. Nobody is talking about those teams being over the hill, or their time running out, or them being failures for not winning it all every year.
    It is, people think oh your doing well in the regular season. its nice to make the playoffs but we make the playoffs like every year! Id rather not make the playoff because we keep not winning the big one.

    Its like Cleveland Cavs when they had Lebron James, they were regular season warriors who were so good in reg season but come Playoffs they would fail to get over the last hump. Thats gotta hurt.
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    That's how i picked the Patriots when i was 6 :laugh:
    In fairness they were the first team I followed (for precisely that reason) but I don't really feel I can make a connection with any team so I'd call myself a fan of the game and have teams which I like watching, and teams which I don't. As I'm still pretty uneducated on the defensive game the teams I like tend to have a more offensive focus
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    In fairness they were the first team I followed (for precisely that reason) but I don't really feel I can make a connection with any team so I'd call myself a fan of the game and have teams which I like watching, and teams which I don't. As I'm still pretty uneducated on the defensive game the teams I like tend to have a more offensive focus
    Yeah i won't lie and say thats not the reason i chose them as it was. I was 6 in Cambridge and my dad told us in the car what teams we should follow while we were over there and well i chose the team with England in it. As i got older i really began to follow the Pats almost religiously. Can't imagine ever swapping teams though. Remember crying when i heard Drew Bledsoe was badly hurt haha
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Yeah i won't lie and say thats not the reason i chose them as it was. I was 6 in Cambridge and my dad told us in the car what teams we should follow while we were over there and well i chose the team with England in it. As i got older i really began to follow the Pats almost religiously. Can't imagine ever swapping teams though. Remember crying when i heard Drew Bledsoe was badly hurt haha
    Now that is passion! Ray Lewis' speech after the Ravens Championship win put a little tear in my eye last week and I don't even like the Ravens!!! The retirement of a legend is always sad though. If I'd have visited areas of the USA that didn't have awful teams I might have found one to support, I just can't abide Miami's colourscheme, it's horrible. And the Buc's are just terrible. I've been to Washington too but before the RG3 hype they were awful and nobody I saw in DC was up about them.
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    Nah was just me being a young kid being over dramatic losing our pro bowl QB haha. Little did i know TB would come in and rest was history.

    My dad supports Miami :laugh:
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Nah was just me being a young kid being over dramatic losing our pro bowl QB haha. Little did i know TB would come in and rest was history.

    My dad supports Miami :laugh:
    Just as long as he doesn't wear the kit in the light of day then.

    We've all been over dramatic over sport haven't we. I cried when van Nistelrooy put his injury time penalty over the bar at 0-0 against Arsenal in what turned out to be their invincible season. We watch sport because it evokes that sort of emotion.

    P.S. If the 49'ers don't win the Superbowl i'll be very upset about losing £10.
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    Just as long as he doesn't wear the kit in the light of day then.

    We've all been over dramatic over sport haven't we. I cried when van Nistelrooy put his injury time penalty over the bar at 0-0 against Arsenal in what turned out to be their invincible season. We watch sport because it evokes that sort of emotion.

    P.S. If the 49'ers don't win the Superbowl i'll be very upset about losing £10.
    Ahaha i had both the Ravens and 49ers anyway at the start of the season. so either way i win. In a way i want the 49ers to win because i hate Suggs but Reed and Ngata i want to get their first ring.
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Ahaha i had both the Ravens and 49ers anyway at the start of the season. so either way i win. In a way i want the 49ers to win because i hate Suggs but Reed and Ngata i want to get their first ring.
    I had the Eagles at the start of the season... :sad:
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    I had the Eagles at the start of the season... :sad:
    Hahaha bad mistake

    I had the bears at 33 to 1 and put a 5er on them. started of 7-1 and i was buzzing...
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Hahaha bad mistake

    I had the bears at 33 to 1 and put a 5er on them. started of 7-1 and i was buzzing...
    Last year barring the Giant's charge from 7-7 to Superbowl winners was so predictable, the Browns lost, the Pats won, the Colts had a horrible time of it without Peyton. This year has been so much harder to bet on, I've won 1 of about 15 accumulators i've had on all season!
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    Last year barring the Giant's charge from 7-7 to Superbowl winners was so predictable, the Browns lost, the Pats won, the Colts had a horrible time of it without Peyton. This year has been so much harder to bet on, I've won 1 of about 15 accumulators i've had on all season!
    2 out of 14 this season and both have been crappy around 14 pound win. Some people say its easy but i don't see how it is its been incredibly difficult. One of my mates lost out on a 127 pound accumalator by one game the Buccs Saints game when it went right down to the wire and the Buccanneers had a touchdown chance right at the end only for it to be ruled originally pushed out of bounds. He called me screaming thinking he had won only for the refs to end that hope D:
 
 
 
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