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what would happen if people had a white or caucasian society at a university watch

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    (Original post by wacabac)
    Just to answer this before I go
    I thought you had left already?

    this thread has not demonstrated that such a society would cause controversy, this thread has been mainly debating what black and white culture is.
    Why?

    Because of the controversy surrounding the concept of white cultures in universities, hence the title "what would happen if people had a white or caucasian society at a university" and not "what is the difference between white culture and black culture.

    Therefore that argument is false and invalid, there was controversy.

    Hence there is no controversy about the group, merely curiosity as to its function. End of discussion.
    But this "curiosity", this vocal "curiosity", that divides people, and causes debate, only applies to a white society, why?

    Because it's contraversial.

    :rolleyes:

    You are just playing semantics now.

    Have you left for good this time?
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    The proposed controversy - That people think a 'black' society is ok, but a 'white' society is wrong, thus a double standard regarding racial pride.

    The actual controversy/debate of this thread - That there is no real justification for a 'white' society, thus any opposition is justified. On the other hand, there is apt justification for a 'black' society.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    The proposed controversy - That people think a 'black' society is ok, but a 'white' society is wrong, thus a double standard regarding racial pride.

    The actual controversy/debate of this thread - That there is no real justification for a 'white' society, thus any opposition is justified. On the other hand, there is apt justification for a 'black' society.
    Actually it is one in the same point. Namely that people would be perfectly happy to accept a "black" society, but NOT one that was white.

    Whether that is because the think the latter is wrong, or because they think it meaningless, or too vague, or unjustified, or pointless... they STILL have a double standard in that the assess and treat the two differently.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Actually it is one in the same point. Namely that people would be perfectly happy to accept a "black" society, but NOT one that was white.

    Whether that is because the think the latter is wrong, or because they think it meaningless, or too vague, or unjustified, or pointless... they STILL have a double standard in that the assess and treat the two differently.
    You saved me a reply.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Actually it is one in the same point. Namely that people would be perfectly happy to accept a "black" society, but NOT one that was white.

    Whether that is because the think the latter is wrong, or because they think it meaningless, or too vague, or unjustified, or pointless... they STILL have a double standard in that the assess and treat the two differently.
    It's not a double standard, as that implies contradiction in some way. If there is apporpriate justification for each side, then two different standards apply, but they don't contradict eachother.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    It's not a double standard, as that implies contradiction in some way. If there is apporpriate justification for each side, then two different standards apply, but they don't contradict eachother.
    Indeed. I have yet to see the justification.

    Not to mention the fact that the thread has perhaps given us a number of doubel standards.

    Namely that white culture is a "silly concept" while black culture is not

    That White culture is meaningless while black culture is not.

    That white culture if it does exist is somehow about conquest and opression, while black culture is about art


    Not to mention the accusation that white people are inherently power mad... a racist post if ever I saw one, and yet, if I had said something similar about blacks, there would be far more outcry.


    Double standards a plenty.
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    Both "white culture" and "black culture" are exceptionally silly concepts. At best they are ridiculously sweeping generalisations based on a severe deprivation of knowledge - the "jazz is black, Bach is white" view expanded to include other areas of culture - and at worst they constitute, or rather conceal, outright attempts to put another culture down.

    It's not as if the definitions of "white", "black" and "culture" are certain in the first place.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Indeed. I have yet to see the justification.

    Not to mention the fact that the thread has perhaps given us a number of doubel standards.

    Namely that white culture is a "silly concept" while black culture is not

    That White culture is meaningless while black culture is not.

    That white culture if it does exist is somehow about conquest and opression, while black culture is about art


    Not to mention the accusation that white people are inherently power mad... a racist post if ever I saw one, and yet, if I had said something similar about blacks, there would be far more outcry.


    Double standards a plenty.
    The reason why having a "white" culture here is meaningless is because of how the majority of society use the words "white" and "black". I agree with you- the words are used wrongly, because they umbrella all black people together when they shouldn't. But they still do use it in that way, and i'm flabberghasted that anyone could deny this. Finding examples of they way black is used generically isn't hard, if you go out onto the street and just listen to people talking about" black" music,, or "he was talking like a black man", etc, etc. That is just the way people use it. And it is the way that university societies use it too. They don't mean it to be specific to ALL black people all over the world- hence why there are also "nigerian" societies, and "African dance" socieities. Yes, you can find examples of different types of black people, and different uses of the word. But it is plain to see, to any perosn, that "black" and "white", IN THE MAIN, are used differently here. And i think you know this, but have come so far into this debate that to admit it would just look like you were wrong all along. The word "white" is too vague in the same context as the word "black" when using them for society naming.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    The word "white" is too vague in the same context as the word "black" when using them for society naming.
    But you can't actually say why, without spinning things endlessly out of context?

    You can if you are allowed to substitute Britian for white, and the whole of Africa, and the Caribbean for black, but not if you have to do a like for like comparisson?

    Every point you have just made has been addressed time and time again in this thread, you just continue to refuse to accept any defenition other than your own, even though that has been patently exposed as unworkable.
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    But you can't actually say why, without spinning things endlessly out of context?

    You can if you are allowed to substitute Britian for white, and the whole of Africa, and the Caribbean for black, but not if you have to do a like for like comparisson?

    Every point you have just made has been addressed time and time again in this thread, you just continue to refuse to accept any defenition other than your own, even though that has been patently exposed as unworkable.
    How is it unworkable, when that is they way the words are used here? There isn't any need to provide evidence. You go outside and you hear people talking about "black" music- you think they mean music from guyanese tribes, hip-hop, swahili rain dance beats....or you think they just meant rnb or hip hop? People use it vaguely. They just do! The point is there isn't a like-for like comparison that is widely used in this type of society!
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    How is it unworkable, when that is they way the words are used here?
    By you, innacurately.

    There isn't any need to provide evidence. You go outside and you hear people talking about "black" music- you think they mean music from guyanese tribes, hip-hop, swahili rain dance beats....or you think they just meant rnb or hip hop?
    And when you hear people talk about "white" music?

    People use it vaguely. They just do! The point is there isn't a like-for like comparison that is widely used in this type of society!
    There have been plenty used through out this thread.
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    By you, innacurately.



    And when you hear people talk about "white" music?



    There have been plenty used through out this thread.
    No, by general society, innacurately. I don't ever hear people talk of white music in general. They say rock, or indie, or classical, they don't say white. And if they did, that would be as innacurate as saying "black" music.

    Plenty of like-for-like comparisons that are used by Lawz, or by general society? You and him, trying to argue a point by saying that YOU use the terms in a certain way doens't mean the rest of society does. Same goes for me. But i KNOW i hear the words being used like that all the time, in general society. And i don't hear people talk of "white" music. And if you look at the media, they have MOBOS, and and they say "black gang culture"....... Thye do use the term more loosely than the word white is used. You know it, but as i said, admitting that would be admitting you were wrong. I don't care whether for the purpose of this debate you will choose not to display that you agree, i'm satisfied knowing that you know in your own mind that black is used more loosely than white. And really, this thread should stop. Or is it going to be a game of who gets the last word? Because we are repeating ourselves constantly.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    No, by general society, innacurately.
    No, by you.

    I don't ever hear people talk of white music in general.
    Well in general is a start, I've never once heard any person ever, let alone in general, use the phrase "black" music.

    I've heard the genres rattled off a million times, and a few times heard people talk of music of black origin, but never once heard the phrase "black" music.

    So you've heard white music heard more than I've heard the phrase "black" music used.

    And if they did, that would be as innacurate as saying "black" music.
    As innacurate as, so are not surprised they don't use the phrase "black" music much?

    Yet you claim because you have not heard many people in general say "white" music that makes things different?

    Plenty of like-for-like comparisons that are used by Lawz, or by general society? You and him, trying to argue a point by saying that YOU use the terms in a certain way doens't mean the rest of society does.
    Seeing as the whole basis for your argument is what you say I think you have just invalidated your entire position.

    Same goes for me.
    Exactly.

    But i KNOW i hear the words being used like that all the time, in general society.
    And I KNOW what I hear too.

    Do you have a point?

    You seem to be arguing that if you hear something it's right, but if someone else hears something it is in someway wrong.

    And if you look at the media, they have MOBOS
    And up until two (or maybe three) years ago they had MoWo (which the BNP tried to ressurect)

    and and they say "black gang culture".......
    And white gang culture

    (Original post by Review of Brooklyn Gang: Summer 1959)
    It is tempting to consider what this book might have been like had more of the detail of Brooklyn's 1950s white gang culture, as revealed in that Times article, been used to reinforce this spare volume.
    See?

    So do you really have a point?

    Answer = no
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    No, by you.



    Well in general is a start, I've never once heard any person ever, let alone in general, use the phrase "black" music.

    I've heard the genres rattled off a million times, and a few times heard people talk of music of black origin, but never once heard the phrase "black" music.

    So you've heard white music heard more than I've heard the phrase "black" music used.



    As innacurate as, so are not surprised they don't use the phrase "black" music much?

    Yet you claim because you have not heard many people in general say "white" music that makes things different?



    Seeing as the whole basis for your argument is what you say I think you have just invalidated your entire position.



    Exactly.



    And I KNOW what I hear too.

    Do you have a point?

    You seem to be arguing that if you hear something it's right, but if someone else hears something it is in someway wrong.



    And up until two (or maybe three) years ago they had MoWo (which the BNP tried to ressurect)



    And white gang culture



    See?

    So do you really have a point?

    Answer = no
    You think then, that the words "white" and "black" are used equally, in the same context as each other, in this society. From this point, i cannot go any further with the debate. Thats just what you think, and you won't be persuaded otherwise. And from that base, there can be nothing to add.MoWo's? Was that an established event in the same way that MOBOS are then? I havent ever hard of it before. And what a shame you have to resort to the BNP to get your points about usages across. They don't represent society in general, and they have a preoccupation with race, so its likely you will hear the word white used in many ways when its coming from their mouths. But aside from the BNP usages, can't you find any more examples of the word white used as loosely as black? In general society? I really really do hear black used very loosely. Im amazed you don't
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    You think then, that the words "white" and "black" are used equally, in the same context as each other, in this society. From this point, i cannot go any further with the debate. Thats just what you think, and you won't be persuaded otherwise. And from that base, there can be nothing to add.MoWo's? Was that an established event in the same way that MOBOS are then?
    Why were the MOBOS set up?

    Because black artists felt award ceremonies were focusing to much on WHITE MUSIC

    You see?

    Even your examples prove you wrong.

    I havent ever hard of it before. And what a shame you have to resort to the BNP to get your points about usages across.
    I didn't resort to the BNP, I mentioned they tried to resurect the awards.

    It was a note in passing, it wasn't relevent to me making a point.

    I do wish you would read peoples posts.

    They don't represent society in general, and they have a preoccupation with race, so its likely you will hear the word white used in many ways when its coming from their mouths. But aside from the BNP usages, can't you find any more examples of the word white used as loosely as black? In general society? I really really do hear black used very loosely. Im amazed you don't
    Why are you even on this site if you don't bother to read what people say?

    The MOWO was NOT a BNP award, so example one.

    The reason for the foundation of the MOBOS, example two

    "Such actions uphold hooks' assertion that ethnicity can be used to enliven experiences within mainstream white culture" example three

    "It is tempting to consider what this book might have been like had more of the detail of Brooklyn's 1950s white gang culture, as revealed in that Times article, been used to reinforce this spare volume." example four

    You have had four mainstream examples in the last few posts.

    If you bothered to read what people wrote you would know that.
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    Why were the MOBOS set up?

    Because black artists felt award ceremonies were focusing to much on WHITE MUSIC

    You see?

    Even your examples prove you wrong.



    I didn't resort to the BNP, I mentioned they tried to resurect the awards.

    It was a note in passing, it wasn't relevent to me making a point.

    I do wish you would read peoples posts.



    Why are you even on this site if you don't bother to read what people say?

    The MOWO was NOT a BNP award, so example one.

    The reason for the foundation of the MOBOS, example two

    "Such actions uphold hooks' assertion that ethnicity can be used to enliven experiences within mainstream white culture" example three

    "It is tempting to consider what this book might have been like had more of the detail of Brooklyn's 1950s white gang culture, as revealed in that Times article, been used to reinforce this spare volume." example four

    You have had four mainstream examples in the last few posts.

    If you bothered to read what people wrote you would know that.
    Pathetic and useless. There were no mowos then. There is just a dominant white culture in a white country. Who knew?

    Both you and Lawz have brought the BNP up a few times before as examples of white being used in society. You are like a silly child, so i can't be bothered anymore. We dont agree. End of story.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Pathetic and useless.
    No, exactly what you asked for.

    There were no mowos then.
    Read the posts you moron!

    Both you and Lawz have brought the BNP up a few times before as examples of white being used in society.
    Show me once where I have used the BNP as an example?

    You are like a silly child, so i can't be bothered anymore. We dont agree. End of story.
    You lose, so you run away.

    You do this a lot.
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    No, exactly what you asked for.



    Read the posts you moron!



    Show me once where I have used the BNP as an example?



    You lose, so you run away.

    You do this a lot.
    Dear god. A MOBO awards ceremony is set up because the general awards in white britain, didn't cater to "black" music. So you are saying there are MOWOS? Or that they existed in the same context as MOBOS do? That i what is patheitc. I did read your post. And it absolutely, shockingly, pathetic.

    You just did use the BNP. And Lawz has a few times. I said you and lawz have used the BNP a few times. Is that wrong? Stop being dopey, if you can. Anyway, i'm not running away . I feel that all has been said. MANY TIMES. So from here, the thread will likely descend into name-calling. And i'm not really up for that. Its childish.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Dear god. A MOBO awards ceremony is set up because the general awards in white britain, didn't cater to "black" music.
    Yes, they were thought to cater for white music.

    Totally invalidating everything you have ever said.

    You just did use the BNP.
    I asked you to show me where I used the BNP as an example.

    You can't because you are a LIAR

    I said you and lawz have used the BNP a few times. Is that wrong?
    Yes

    Stop being dopey, if you can.
    Compared with a moron like you?

    Anyway, i'm not running away
    Yes you are, just like you do in every thread, you start off full of piss and wind, and as your argument breaks down you resort to insults, before running away.

    You've done it before.

    You asked for examples, I gave you examples, proved you were wrong, you insulted me and told me the debate was over.

    Yes it is, you were wrong.

    You didn't have the balls to admit that though, instead you make excuses.

    You are pathetic.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    To have a 'whites' society would be exclusionist in nature. We LIVE in a white majority, daily life is the white society. Turn on the TV and you'll see white reporters reporting white, British news and entertainment in the majority of cases. .
    Sky are trying to increase the amount of ethnic women on tv. It is starting to get obvious.
 
 
 
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