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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    You didn't make any valid points, therefore nothing to side step. I suggest you read the excellent article by Owen Jones and address his points, I was only summarising them.

    I made that comment because you sound like a Ukip staffer who is working round the clock here for the Party and I think you should be honest about it if that's what's happening. Also if 'you' are one of a number of accounts being run from there with that aim in mind.
    Oh dear, it's tin foil hat time, again!

    It's a conspiwacy!
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    I did, and you are still sidestepping the points I made in response to your "points".

    I would actually like to have some proper comment on this issue with you. But if you carry on like this, then I must terminate this line of conversation.

    I can tell you how much this made me laugh. You honestly believe their is a UKIP conspiracy to take over this forum? Do you really think that I am chefdave or anyone else?

    UKIP are nearly 20% of the vote and on the rise. Get off your horse and smell the air. UKIP is real and here to stay, so am I and my other UKIP friends.
    Oh Lord, you're going to terminate? The horror!

    Pass on our gratitude for your ongoing morsels of Ukip wisdom to your mysterious "Ukip friends", er office staff, or some local branch rep, or whatever you are exactly. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Oh dear, it's tin foil hat time, again!

    It's a conspiwacy!
    **** double post, sorry!!!!
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    **** double post, sorry!!!!
    It must get confusing when you have lots of accounts to look after.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Oh Lord, you're going to terminate? The horror!

    Pass on our gratitude for your ongoing morsels of Ukip wisdom to your mysterious "Ukip friends", er office staff, or some local branch rep, or whatever you are exactly. :rolleyes:
    So I assume by this "rebuttal" you do not wish to engage in intelligent comment on this issues, and simply wish to use mockery as a way of validating you invalid points?
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    Have we reached the point where you lot don't actually debate anything and just take turns trying to wind each other up?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It must get confusing when you have lots of accounts to look after.
    I know, all that logging in and logging out. Gets a bit boring sometimes, hopefully someone starts supporting us, so I can stop paying off the national newspapers to come up with poll ratings which say we are the 3rd force of politics in the UK.
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    (Original post by almost_instinct)
    Have we reached the point where you lot don't actually debate anything and just take turns trying to wind each other up?
    Believe it or not, I am trying. But our friend above wishes to engage in mockery and conspiracy theories.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Believe it or not, I am trying. But our friend above wishes to engage in mockery and conspiracy theories.
    The whole thread is a conspiracy theory ("Right-wing factions seeking to run debate on TSR?"), so I'm just trying to keep it on-topic!
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The whole thread is a conspiracy theory ("Right-wing factions seeking to run debate on TSR?"), so I'm just trying to keep it on-topic!
    Do you wish to address my response to your earlier points?
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    Parts of the market can be monopolised?

    What if that results in the closure of a specialist hospital?

    What if, for example, I need a heart transplant and the hospital 30 miles from my home is closed because of 'over expenditure', or other cost effective issues. Then because I need specialist treatment I have to travel to Scotland, or the other side of the country?

    But then, there's only 1 or 2 specialist hospitals left for NHS patients. So I go on a waiting list. Who pays for travel expenses?

    How do you prevent a two tier healthcare scenario? Those who can afford private care and those for whom GPs will say "we can't afford your treatment".

    Honestly. It takes nothing at all to say "get rid of the NHS altogether".

    With no fundamental understanding of how many people rely on a public healthcare system.
    We could say this about anything though.

    Why don't we socialise food?

    Food is incredibly important, in fact much more so than healthcare because we'd quickly become ill and die without it. So why don't we subsidise or collectivise food production to make sure the poor and vulnerable can get their hands on the meals they need?

    Because we accept that both in theory and in practice the private sector is more efficient at distributing resources sensibly and in a cost-efficient manner.

    This principle would work exactly the same with healthcare, but we havn't applied it because of an over emotional post-WW2 attachment to 'R NHS'.

    The trap you're falling into is a belief that if the state doesn't do something nobody else will, but the highstreet and the internet is a living, breathing example of what can be achieved if only the state would get out of the way.

    This isn't any different when it comes to nurses and doctors and medicine.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Do you wish to address my response to your earlier points?
    Do you wish to just keep repeating that you haven't been addressed every time someone either doesn't agree with your nonsense or chooses to ignore it?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Right now we have massive government attacks on the poor and the Tories are using the police as a tool to brutally suppress protest. A couple of years ago they used it against students in London on a massive scale and against the very popular UK Uncut tax protests - the cases arising from that are still going on. Few causes have as much popular support as the campaign to end massive tax avoidance by corporations, yet despite Coalition blather on the subject, little is being truly done to clamp down on it. Today we have the news that directors of more than 175,000 UK companies are based in tax havens. Enough money is kept in tax havens to provide for the entire government spending of the United States and Japan for a year!

    TSR political threads are not reflecting this reality. Instead, we have a regular blizzard of Daily Mail-influenced thread titles, attacking so-called 'scroungers', trying to paint the poor as undeserving, attacking immigrants and all the rest of the usual far-right message that the poor and immigrants are to blame for our woes, the biggest lie of many lies that the Tories are currently telling.

    This is now such a regular pattern that the UK politics forum appears to be almost dead in the water - most posters are bogged down arguing with people who appear to be wholly committed to the EDL/BNP/Ukip lines. So much so, that we must ask the question - are these organisations seeking to control debate on TSR? Is TSR willing to allow this to continue? Is it what we really want?
    naive socialist is naive

    quelle surprise ...

    The fact is most people open to discussion ( i.e. not the naive children or the heredity labour voting sheeple ) have seen the through the rubbish trotted out by Brown and the 2 Eds ... means that the obvious result of re-elected Labour especially under the 2 Eds would be financial collapse within months ( Labour was running out of other people's ( or Our money if you pay tax)( money in the dying months of the 2005 -2010 government) or hyperinflation if they tell the BoE to print money , assuming the credit rating wasn't dropped to 'junk' the moment they were invited to the Palace ...
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    Can you not be bothered to look back at the exchange between myself and dj1015?

    You're correct that extreme individualism is libertarian (that is to say, American libertarianism).

    My point is that it's the extremity of the ideology that makes it fascist.
    That isn't how fascism works. If you think any extremist ideology is fascist, you're silly.

    fascism; Noun
    An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    (in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

    How exactly can the complete opposite of fascism, in extreme-individualist Libertarianism, be fascist?

    I've "babbled" information relevant to the conversation I was having. With someone else by the way.
    :fyi: This is an internet forum where anyone can intervene when they feel like they've got something worth saying or even if they don't.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    I see a poorly aimed smear, but no evidence to support it.
    Despite Farage hanging out with notorious racist Ron Paul.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    We could say this about anything though.

    Why don't we socialise food?

    Food is incredibly important, in fact much more so than healthcare because we'd quickly become ill and die without it. So why don't we subsidise or collectivise food production to make sure the poor and vulnerable can get their hands on the meals they need?

    Because we accept that both in theory and in practice the private sector is more efficient at distributing resources sensibly and in a cost-efficient manner.

    This principle would work exactly the same with healthcare, but we havn't applied it because of an over emotional post-WW2 attachment to 'R NHS'.

    The trap you're falling into is a belief that if the state doesn't do something nobody else will, but the highstreet and the internet is a living, breathing example of what can be achieved if only the state would get out of the way.

    This isn't any different when it comes to nurses and doctors and medicine.
    ah the libertarian dream as viewed by the middle class children who predominate on TSR

    rather different prospect if you have a chronic condition, are unfortunate enough to sustain a serious or life changing injury

    also rather different when the bank of mum and dad won;t be able to bail you out ...
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    The problem is on TSR there are users of different levels of maturity and political knowledge. There are some intelligent Tories and UKIP supporters on here, Rakas, Teaddict, Tactical Penguin, some of the guys that are in the TSR libertarian party. These guys usually make fairly detailed posts with reasoned arguments..
    I have to say, even after months of inactivity, it is nice to be remembered
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I have to say, even after months of inactivity, it is nice to be remembered
    How do you reveal your intelligent Toryism? :cool:
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    You didn't make any valid points, therefore nothing to side step. I suggest you read the excellent article by Owen Jones and address his points, I was only summarising them.

    I made that comment because you sound like a Ukip staffer who is working round the clock here for the Party and I think you should be honest about it if that's what's happening. Also if 'you' are one of a number of accounts being run from there with that aim in mind.
    Ahahaha this made me laugh oh so hard, You believe UKIP has time to allocate people to spread their views on a student forum? Do you think that we're being paid to spread their views?

    Wow.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    naive socialist is naive

    quelle surprise ...

    The fact is most people open to discussion ( i.e. not the naive children or the heredity labour voting sheeple ) have seen the through the rubbish trotted out by Brown and the 2 Eds ... means that the obvious result of re-elected Labour especially under the 2 Eds would be financial collapse within months ( Labour was running out of other people's ( or Our money if you pay tax)( money in the dying months of the 2005 -2010 government) or hyperinflation if they tell the BoE to print money , assuming the credit rating wasn't dropped to 'junk' the moment they were invited to the Palace ...
    You don't think the global financial crisis might have had something to do with it? Or the need to lend £50bn of taxpayer's cash to the banks?
 
 
 
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