Do you consider UKIP good or bad? Watch

Ggmu!
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#501
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#501
(Original post by billydisco)
Do you think its racist for a country to control their borders?

Do you believe Australia is racist? The US? Oh how about every country in the world which isn't in the EU, because they all control their own immigration?
Lol the point is that UKIP aren't necessarily racist but they draw racists to vote for them.

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hexagonalRod
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#502
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(Original post by billydisco)
Calling a dirt-poor country dirt-poor is not arrogant. Its stating a fact.


Depends- do you think working in starbucks is a highly-skilled job?


What do you mean by this? I just said I have no problem with highly-skilled immigrants from any country coming here......


You want to allow unrestricted access to the UK from people who have no skills and you call me simple-minded?

There is no such thing as a 'dirt-poor country.' The word derives from pure arrogance.

No, I mean jobs in Engineering/finance/Medicine. Most immigrants are employed in highly skilled jobs for your information- you just don't get to see them cause they are indoors.

Of course, UKIP totally isn't using that to cover up their racist policies at all (!)

More workers = better economy ~ more jobs. A big percentage of employers were immigrants to begin with. They don't get benefits just by moving to the UK.
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billydisco
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(Original post by hexagonalRod)
No, I mean jobs in Engineering/finance/Medicine. Most immigrants are employed in highly skilled jobs for your information- you just don't get to see them cause they are indoors.
So you're saying most of the EU migrants from Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania are highly-skilled?

(Original post by hexagonalRod)
Of course, UKIP totally isn't using that to cover up their racist policies at all (!)
What are UKIPs racist policies? Please tell me.


(Original post by hexagonalRod)
More workers = better economy ~ more jobs.
Is an economy with 1 million people earning £14k better than 500,000 earning £150,000 a year?

I'll help you out: GDP per capita, adjusted for inflation AND factoring in social issues.....
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Tom78
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#504
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#504
(Original post by billydisco)
Do you think its racist for a country to control their borders?

Do you believe Australia is racist? The US? Oh how about every country in the world which isn't in the EU, because they all control their own immigration?
Boo hoo foreigners, why do you feel threatened by them? They all end up in ****ty blue collar jobs anyway, if you're intelligent and you can fend for yourself you shouldn't feel threatened by your average Boris who works on a construction site at minimum wage.
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billydisco
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#505
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(Original post by Tom78)
Boo hoo foreigners, why do you feel threatened by them? They all end up in ****ty blue collar jobs anyway, if you're intelligent and you can fend for yourself you shouldn't feel threatened by your average Boris who works on a construction site at minimum wage.
You didn't answer my Q..... is it racist for a country to control their own borders?
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hexagonalRod
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#506
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#506
(Original post by billydisco)
So you're saying most of the EU migrants from Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania are highly-skilled?


What are UKIPs racist policies? Please tell me.



Is an economy with 1 million people earning £14k better than 500,000 earning £150,000 a year?

I'll help you out: GDP per capita, adjusted for inflation AND factoring in social issues.....
Most migrants, in general. Not necessarily from Eastern Europe. It sounds like you have something against them tbh. There's nothing wrong with letting them work here. Letting others work here also increases employers, you goon.

UKIP wants to get out of the EU because they want to let eastern european countries rot away- that is selfish politics- and racist imo


You got a massive amount of seats anyway- Makes me want to move away
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meenu89
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#507
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#507
(Original post by billydisco)
You didn't answer my Q..... is it racist for a country to control their own borders?
The answer being yes it is, apart from when Labour want to do it (or claim that they will).
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geokinkladze
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#508
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(Original post by hexagonalRod)
UKIP wants to get out of the EU because they want to let eastern european countries rot away- that is selfish politics- and racist imo
How does Britain's exit from the EU let other nations rot away? Any nation with problems, if left alone from outside influence usually via a process of self determination is able to resolve them.

Only when others become involved with their "apparently" good intentions do things usually start to go wrong (please note I said usually, not always).

The idea that UKIP is racist is just a joke, and does nothing but drive a wedge further between those who support UKIP and those who don't.

Indirectly UKIP's policies would lead to more immigrants from ethnic minorities coming to the UK. It's not a direct policy, just an indirect result of not allowing immigration based on EU nationality.

Allowing white Europeans in at will, while controlling the numbers from Africa, Asia and the Caribbean could be regarded as indirectly racist. I personally don't hold that view but in my eyes it has as much validity as the argument that UKIP is racist because they want the UK to control it's own borders.

Practically every nation has sovereignty over it's own borders (or at least attempts to). The nations of the EU are expected not to. There is only one conclusion that can be made from that single fact, and it was alluded to by the then Foreign and Commonwealth Office back in the 70's, that the end result of the European Common Market (as it was then) would be that nation states (such as the UK) would cease to exist.
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limetang
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#509
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#509
(Original post by billydisco)
You didn't answer my Q..... is it racist for a country to control their own borders?
Of course they're saying it is. Is immigration/border control fair and egalitarian? No it isn't, but the facts of the matter are that simply for practical reasons they have to exist.

Nations MUST protect the best interests of their citizens, if that means restrictions on that countries borders so be it. This is a very crowded island, and it very much must have border controls, in an ideal world that would not be the case but we don't live in an ideal world.

It's not racist it's just practical. Also can we please stop throwing the word racist around as casually as we do. It destroys the meaning of the word and is used far too frequently as a means of illegitimately defaming a persons point of view in an attempt to block their opinions from being heard.
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RumpeIstiltskin
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(Original post by limetang)
Of course they're saying it is. Is immigration/border control fair and egalitarian? No it isn't, but the facts of the matter are that simply for practical reasons they have to exist.

Nations MUST protect the best interests of their citizens, if that means restrictions on that countries borders so be it. This is a very crowded island, and it very much must have border controls, in an ideal world that would not be the case but we don't live in an ideal world.

It's not racist it's just practical. Also can we please stop throwing the word racist around as casually as we do. It destroys the meaning of the word and is used far too frequently as a means of illegitimately defaming a persons point of view in an attempt to block their opinions from being heard.
When people say this is a crowded island is a pathetic excuse against immigration and not true. It was reported a couple years ago that there's enough brownfield land available to build 1.5 million new homes and even if we built on just 1% of greenbelt land that would be enough for another 300,000 new homes. There may be a housing shortage but that's because of governments failing to build them, not immigration.
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billydisco
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#511
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(Original post by limetang)
Of course they're saying it is. Is immigration/border control fair and egalitarian? No it isn't, but the facts of the matter are that simply for practical reasons they have to exist.

Nations MUST protect the best interests of their citizens, if that means restrictions on that countries borders so be it. This is a very crowded island, and it very much must have border controls, in an ideal world that would not be the case but we don't live in an ideal world.

It's not racist it's just practical. Also can we please stop throwing the word racist around as casually as we do. It destroys the meaning of the word and is used far too frequently as a means of illegitimately defaming a persons point of view in an attempt to block their opinions from being heard.
You need to read the rest of my posts!

I am asking lefties how are UKIP racist for simply wanting to control their borders?!
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RumpeIstiltskin
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#512
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#512
(Original post by billydisco)
You need to read the rest of my posts!

I am asking lefties how are UKIP racist for simply wanting to control their borders?!
Its not and although I haven't read any of their policies I'm not aware of any UKIP policies that are inherently racist.

That said, generally, a lot of UKIP members don't seem like desirable people that I'd want anything to do with but its just pathetic for people to use racist label flippantly with no reason. I have no idea why they get all the unjusitified media attention which is basically just handing them the votes of the ignorant.
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zippity.doodah
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#513
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#513
mostly they are a satisfying party - they are addressing the things that the comfortable westminster bubble continued, for so long, to ignore
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_Chris
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#514
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#514
Well done Nigel!

You've broken the mold.... No let's not go there!
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_Chris
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#515
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#515
Well done Nigel!

You've broken the mold.... No let's not go there!
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KhloeCasser
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#516
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#516
(Original post by Rooster523)
UKIP are bad because:

1) They wish to remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the EU court of human rights. You heard me, UKIP wants the UK not to have to abide by laws that protect fundamental human rights and freedoms.

2) 'No to political correctness'- basically they'd like to create a platform where racist/homophobic/islamaphobic statements are no longer frowned upon. They say PC stifles free speech, I say not having it segregates society.

3) Their entire immigration policy is based on fear and intolerance. 'Immigrants put pressure on the healthcare system'- Nope, the elderly put pressure on the healthcare system and arguably, the NHS wouldn't function without immigrants.- this is one example, there's many more but I'm not really in the mood to list every single one.

4) Their policies are based on idealisms, not realisms. They want lower taxes but more police on the streets, improved roads. Fair enough- but where's that money going to come from?

5) Their immigration policy will see an increase in homelessness and crimes committed by immigrants. 'Immigrants must financially support themselves for 5 years before receiving state help'. Example: A migrant worker works in the UK for 2 years, brings his family here, things are looking good. Company he works for gets made redundant, can no longer afford things, is not entitled to benefits or any state help. Begins stealing to provide for his family.


Just a few I can think of off the top of my head
I'm not too knowledgeable on politics but I completely agree with you! I do not see why everyone is so against immigration these days (honestly a lot of people just come across as plain racist in their views :'( ), I feel it is becoming a scape goat that people blame. Besides I thought immigration has plenty of advantages for the UK. It helps deal with our ageing population crisis for a start
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limetang
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#517
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(Original post by RumpeIstiltskin)
When people say this is a crowded island is a pathetic excuse against immigration and not true. It was reported a couple years ago that there's enough brownfield land available to build 1.5 million new homes and even if we built on just 1% of greenbelt land that would be enough for another 300,000 new homes. There may be a housing shortage but that's because of governments failing to build them, not immigration.
Forgive me, but space is still a finite resource, and these houses don't exist yet. Irrespective of what the reason is for a housing shortage so long as there IS one the point still stands about controlling your borders.

I also fear you may have missed the point I was trying to make, in the end there is nothing wrong with letting immigration happen, but you MUST control it. The problem with the EU is that it is expanding, it is ever widening the pool of people who can come live and work here without need for a visa. Immigration is neither good nor bad per say it's a thing, and it can have positive and negative aspects to it. My point was that whilst borders aren't exactly fair, they are necessary.
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_Chris
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#518
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(Original post by KhloeCasser)
I'm not too knowledgeable on politics but I completely agree with you! I do not see why everyone is so against immigration these days (honestly a lot of people just come across as plain racist in their views :'( ), I feel it is becoming a scape goat that people blame. Besides I thought immigration has plenty of advantages for the UK. It helps deal with our ageing population crisis for a start
I think you are correct, you are not too knowledgeable on politics.

Do you not think it is fair to allow immigrants that are good for us - the people who have built this country and paid taxes all their life - rather than immigrants that are bad for us, i.e. those which will take social security and use the NHS for free, contribute little and will not integrate?

Why not have the choice? Yes, we need skills, we need people from outside and different cultures is a good thing - but we have massive national debt and all public services are creaking, near to busting.

UKIP just want to allow us to choose who comes here and benefits from the freedom, the opportunity and wealth that this country can offer.

You are swallowing the media line because the media has a vested interest.

No other non-EU country would be so stupid as to allow this!

It is true that UKIP attracts unsavoury characters - but most of the people who vote UKIP are good, honest, working-class people. They are the people who have most to lose from the EU.

Labour have betrayed the working class - in 20 years Labour will have disappeared, UKIP or whatever it evolves into will be the party for the working class.
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_Chris
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#519
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#519
...and that's only immigration. Let us not talk about the corruption or God forbid the shocking crimes against our fishermen!
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lou_100
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#520
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I don't know many of UKIPs actual policies, apart from their immigration views mainly.

However, I don't want to consider them until they begin to act more professionally about things. I can't pinpoint it (/can't be bothered to type out an attempt to explain) but they come across as being very immature and unprofessional. I also do not like that they ideally cannot tolerate gay marriage if they had it their way. It would be hard/impossible for them to reverse the gay marriage law now, but still, they offer no real solid reason other than simple homophobia.

Anyway, I don't think it's racist to want tighter immigration laws. Half the country is shouting out for something to be done about the immigration in this country and its being heard by all the parties. But UKIP is shouting their policies on immigration louder than any other party (because they know it's working), meaning the racists and/or people severely uneducated and narrow-minded about the benefits of immigration of the country are automatically supporting them and voting.
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