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    (Original post by Quady)
    I agree to an extent, its totally the foundation but not the be all and end all.

    Notice I didn't mention PMs because they are very generic.

    I've seen the situation you've described and I've also seen techies claim they can do things in x days and the non-techie PM from previous projects or past performance saying it'll take 3x days and getting proved right.
    Experience helps tremendously. But, the trouble is for the PMs to have learned that, they would have had to have a technical person to tell them in the first place. If that techie pulls wool over their eyes, they will be fed misinformation and will have the inability to question them.

    I'd question what a CS degree gives you in terms of the hardware side of things. That seems very picked up on the job.
    Any good CS degree will have a software engineering module. For my dissertation, I was also required to write a white paper, covering systems analysis, design etc That's why it is a pretty gruelling degree, it is not just about code. There is math, code, white paper etc.

    A CS degree is generally useless for the hardware side of things, 'electrical engineering' is more relevant to that.
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    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    A 2:2 really isn't that great and you aren't better than someone who doesn't have a degree because of it same as someone with a first, you need experience or companies won't hire you most people will have to work a minimum wage job at some point in their lives and if you would be getting JSA for the 2 weeks free work it isn't really free is it.

    Think you need to be a bit more humble and realise that there are more important things to employers than a degree.
    Firstly, I'd rather do unpaid work experience in an area that interests me and will therefore benefit me in the long term. Working in a Shop or other menial places for free will not help better my situation in any way. So you are implying that I should work for free to put that I know how to shelve stack on my CV, anyone with a half a brain will know that this is exploitation

    I'd rather better my Project portfolio in that time which I may have spent wasting it by working for free. And Fyi, if you have bothered reading my post I did apply for minimum wage jobs like you are supposed to do when you get JSA it's why it's called Job seekers allowance!
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Use linkedin and get yourself on there, its just as important as facebook for professionals. Its a more effective way of applying for jobs.
    Im not a professional..
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    (Original post by Quady)
    I've seen the situation you've described and I've also seen techies claim they can do things in x days and the non-techie PM from previous projects or past performance saying it'll take 3x days and getting proved right.
    Daniel Kahneman's book, Thinking, Fast and Slow has a nice chapter on our natural over-optimistic approach to creating deadlines. Apparently we just don't consider setbacks, and there can be a lot in soft. dev.. So it would probably take x days if everything went 100% smoothly, but it never does!

    (Original post by Quady)
    I'd question what a CS degree gives you in terms of the hardware side of things. That seems very picked up on the job.
    We only really have computer architecture: designing processors and the like. Hardware always struck me as something you'd learn more on an electrical engineering degree!
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    (Original post by Jooooshy)
    We only really have computer architecture: designing processors and the like. Hardware always struck me as something you'd learn more on an electrical engineering degree!
    It is.
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    (Original post by sherlockfan)
    Im not a professional..
    Your a student ot grad, looking to join the working world. Thats what its there for.
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    Firstly, I'd rather do unpaid work experience in an area that interests me and will therefore benefit me in the long term. Working in a Shop or other menial places for free will not help better my situation in any way. So you are implying that I should work for free to put that I know how to shelve stack on my CV, anyone with a half a brain will know that this is exploitation

    I'd rather better my Project portfolio in that time which I may have spent wasting it by working for free. And Fyi, if you have bothered reading my post I did apply for minimum wage jobs like you are supposed to do when you get JSA it's why it's called Job seekers allowance!
    If they've said you can either work for your JSA or not receive it, then it shouldn't feel like you're working for free. Besides, work experience can turn into a job. See it as an opportunity rather than exploitation.

    You should be building your portfolio regardless of whether you have a job or not!
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Your a student ot grad, looking to join the working world. Thats what its there for.
    Im actually neither a student or a grad, but thanks.
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    I graduated last month with a 2:2 in Computer science and since then I have been applying for graduate jobs non-stop with a lot of rejections. I then had to sign on JSA, now the Job center are advising me to work for free for 2 weeks in a call center to get "experience" which I've refused because I dislike to be exploited by the company and work for free in a field that does not interest me.

    I explained to the Job centers that I'm interested in IT jobs to which they replied that they would not be paying me benefits so that I could sit and wait for a very specific job. And after applying to loads of minimum wage jobs and getting loads of rejections they want me to work for free in some crappy job to get experience.

    The other day they sent me to a compulsory course which explained about how to use the internet to apply for jobs I thought it was laughable they must be stuck in the 90's. They have no clue on how to deal with graduates
    Maybe just try for a job that is easy going you might find a full on job in IT too stressful anyway. 2:2 does not exactly cry competence to Employers and the HR bods need to ensure their bosses that they are filling their vacancies with candidates that in most likeihood will perform well for them. No doubt you've worked hard but sometimes it just doesnt go you're way.

    Not fully up on this area but could you not just go into developing your own apps seems to be plenty of money in that these days and until you're getting money in from them you're probably pretty safe while doing it on JSA, unless I'm seeing it through rose tinted specs of course?
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    (Original post by Zorg)
    That's nearly 10 years ago. Best part of a decade in your adult life without any work experience?
    It's worth something right? That's all I got on my CV atm, although I'm 18 so plenty of time to change that .
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    I got a 2.1 and struggled at first. Applied to big companies, then little companies. Got nowhere, decided to change my plan.

    I went the non-graduate route and have earned anywhere from £250-£600/week in the last three years. Right now I average about £450+/week. My current job doesn't require a high school education and I get 192 days off a year.
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    Firstly, I'd rather do unpaid work experience in an area that interests me and will therefore benefit me in the long term. Working in a Shop or other menial places for free will not help better my situation in any way. So you are implying that I should work for free to put that I know how to shelve stack on my CV, anyone with a half a brain will know that this is exploitation

    I'd rather better my Project portfolio in that time which I may have spent wasting it by working for free. And Fyi, if you have bothered reading my post I did apply for minimum wage jobs like you are supposed to do when you get JSA it's why it's called Job seekers allowance!
    I read your post you come across as seeming to think you are better than minimum wage. The time at uni should have been spend building your portfolio and gaining experience in your area of interest. It's not about what you'd rather do it's about what you have to do if you need to stack shelves as a job and gain work experience in your free time you'll have to. No matter what you are still working for free if companies needed the staff they would hire them your two weeks is hardly going to make a difference I can see how it would be exploitation if it was 6 weeks over the christmas period where they would otherwise be hiring staff but other than that no, you're still getting JSA why does it make a difference if the company pays you or the state?
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    (Original post by grumbeale)
    I got a 2.1 and struggled at first. Applied to big companies, then little companies. Got nowhere, decided to change my plan.

    I went the non-graduate route and have earned anywhere from £250-£600/week in the last three years. Right now I average about £450+/week. My current job doesn't require a high school education and I get 192 days off a year.
    Interesting what degree did you graduate from? I agree that applying to big companies is a waste of time I'd rather work for smaller companies that's their loss
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    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    I read your post you come across as seeming to think you are better than minimum wage. The time at uni should have been spend building your portfolio and gaining experience in your area of interest. It's not about what you'd rather do it's about what you have to do if you need to stack shelves as a job and gain work experience in your free time you'll have to. No matter what you are still working for free if companies needed the staff they would hire them your two weeks is hardly going to make a difference I can see how it would be exploitation if it was 6 weeks over the christmas period where they would otherwise be hiring staff but other than that no, you're still getting JSA why does it make a difference if the company pays you or the state?
    I'd rather get a paid job than being an unpaid slave for some other company taking a job that is unpaid will give companies an excuse to exploit people desperate for work and as a result there will be a reduction in the number of paid jobs created
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    I'd rather get a paid job than being an unpaid slave for some other company taking a job that is unpaid will give companies an excuse to exploit people desperate for work and as a result there will be a reduction in the number of paid jobs created
    I think most people would rather have a paid job than JSA but while you look for a paid job you need to gain experience, no because it isn't a full time placement you are there for a short period of time.
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    (Original post by Tom_Ford)
    What? I got a 2.1 from a RG uni in Law with relatively minimal work. I am still out of a job since graduation in 2013. It is very difficult out there, very few jobs to give and intense competition.
    I got a 2:2 in law this month and I have two job offers, both paying over 25k. I think its you mate
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    (Original post by brownbearxo)
    I got a 2:2 in law this month and I have two job offers, both paying over 25k. I think its you mate
    Stop bullying my friend brown bear
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    (Original post by brownbearxo)
    I got a 2:2 in law this month and I have two job offers, both paying over 25k. I think its you mate
    Nice, your ahead of the curve, other people aren't as resourceful!
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    Stop bullying my friend brown bear
    Ok sorry

    I just hate when people try to belittle my Desmond!


    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Nice, your ahead of the curve, other people aren't as resourceful!
    Thanks!
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Nice, your ahead of the curve, other people aren't as resourceful!
    ssshhh
 
 
 
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