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So gay people are now being targeted by Islamic extremists in their own countries? watch

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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    Define physical violence and here is the definition of beating which I copied from my other reply " Islams definition of "beating" is that you must first of all not "hit" her anywhere near the face, you must not "hit" her so hard that her skin turns red (go on experiment on your wrist by hitting gently and you will see it turns red just with minimal force), skin starts bleeding, bruises and bones are to be broken. This is all not allowed. The reason why "beating" is used as LAST RESORT is to show serious one is."
    You say "Islam's definition". Could you reference the hadith (ideally sahih) that says that the skin must not redden?
    I am familiar with those passages that say the beating should not be too severe, or cause serious injury, and avoid the face, but not that one.
    Muhammad himself said "do not beat your wife as you would beat your slave". (Although I guess this opens up another can of worms!)
    Thanks.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    For the love of god
    I think that's the point.
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    (Original post by xxvine)
    You clearly have an agenda

    The case is in America though...I am not talking about other cases.

    Why hasn't something like this happened in the UK? Because we have strict gun laws. It's harder to commit acts like that over here.

    Focus on religion all you want though. Next time we sill see a white kid shoot up a school and kill many like is always the case there.
    The issue here is motivation and justification, not method. The scenario could be, and has been, acted out in countries with strict gun controls.

    1. ISIS have been urging Muslims in western countries to carry out acts of terror against the kuffar.
    2. Muslim claims allegiance to ISIS before carrying out act of terror against the kuffar.

    What is it about this that you are having difficulty understanding?
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    (Original post by xxvine)
    I am not muslim or have any ties to islam. I am just talking about their gun culture which is related to what happened in this case. If it wasn't this guy it will be a non religious guy. People kill in the name of religion in islam, christianity etc...but america makes it too easy for them to commit these acts.
    When was the last time an American swore allegiance to a Christian* terrorist group (that had been calling on Christians* to carry out acts of terror on non-Christians*) before deliberately shooting dozens of random strangers?

    * or Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc?
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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    Lol thats not classified as beating :P
    Maybe in the eyes of an apologist.

    (Original post by xxvine)
    We will never know
    In time we'll get a good idea. One way or another.
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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    Lol, islams definition of beating is completely different to yours and "beating" can only be used as a last resort however if by "beating" your wife you might make the situation worse than you are encouraged not to at all.

    Hope it helps
    Absolutely ****ing disgusting thing to say. Another reason why i hate Islam.

    PUTTING YOUR HANDS ON ANYONE NO MATTER WHAT SHOULD NOT BE ****ING JUSTIFIED.
    How can you bloody idiots not know that? "Last resort?" No. Just no.
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    These people are really starting to annoy me.. why can't they just leave people alone?
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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    I now know why many muslims have given up trying to advice people. If you really want to know just go to a mosque nearby you and ask to meet one of the members and they will tell you everything as I have given up trying to inform people. Peace
    Why would someone with an even greater vested interest, repeating the same refuted fallacies, make me think that it is ever ok to use violence to punish a disobedient wife?

    Edit: wrong person!
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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    My attitude? Your judging my attitude over the internet? First of all I'm a feminist and have great deal of respect towards women (as my religion has said to do so). The prophet(PBUH) stated that the best amongst you is the one thats best to their wives. Just please go ask someone thats a meber of a mosque, he would be able to tell what I have been trying to say. Kudos
    It's quite simple.
    You are condoning wife-beating.
    Simply telling us to talk to someone else who condones wife-beating is not going to make those opposed to domestic violence, suddenly accept it.

    This just illustrates another problem with institutional Islam. The unshakeable (in most) belief that it must be true, that there must be a good explanation - and if they don't understand it, you just need to talk to a scholar who will explain it.
    The assumption that the opinion of a scholar (a person with a massive vested interest in maintaining faith) is objective, balanced and, by default, correct is so clearly flawed that it is laughable.
    Of course, you will deny this and insist that these scholars are the best source of information on Islam (no doubt because scholars have told you this).
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    (Original post by QE2)
    When was the last time an American swore allegiance to a Christian* terrorist group (that had been calling on Christians* to carry out acts of terror on non-Christians*) before deliberately shooting dozens of random strangers?

    * or Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc?
    So because other mass shooters haven't been religious is makes it okay and doesn't show the fast that America has a gun problem?
    Okay
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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    You make it sound as if Im saying Men should beat their wives when they feel like it. I do have respect for women, I am told to love my mum 3X more than my father, I'm told to not even raise my voice against my parents (thats how respectful one should be).
    This says a lot about your morality.

    You have to understand just because you "beat" a women doesn't mean you're disrespecting them
    Congratulations on winning the 2016 "WTF!" Award! :congrats:

    and that "beating" can only be used in a certain scenario. I understand what you are saying, women should not be beaten up at all and I agree I would never even raise my voice against my wife yet alone strike her. Yes it angers me a lot that men beat their wives (not just in asian countries), they treat them nothing more than an object and beat them much they die. You think I'm up for that? Absolutely not. I am completely against that type of stuff after all I'm human BUT I believe if you are going to "beat" your wife than you can only do it under a certain scenario (I don't know what that scenario is as i have no knowledge about it) and no great amount of force must be used (only a gentle tap on their shoulder to show that one is serious but every other approach must have been tried).
    So, you condemn domestic violence, but you think that husbands should be allowed to commit it in "certain scenarios".
    Just brilliant!

    This type of internal turmoil is what happens when out innate empathy and evolved morality comes up against religious dogma.
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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    Looool If you read my comment if you even make their skin turn red. You know exactly what I was trying to say about how much pain you can actually cause but you than went with the "you can get hurt without any marks". SMH
    You seem confused now.
    You stated the conditions of the beating.
    I pointed out that under those conditions, you can still inflict serious pain.
    Now you are attempting to change your conditions.

    BTW, the Quran does not mention any conditions, and hadith only say that the beating should not be too severe and should not cause injury, and should avoid the face.
    They say nothing about not inflicting pain.

    Basically, your argument is no longer supported by the Quran or hadith, so by attempting to impose conditions on what was revealed by Allah and clarified by Muhammad, you are straying close to committing bidah.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    shouldn't that be

    The prophet(MHRIH) stated that the best amongst(sic) you is the one thats(sic) beats thier(sic) wives.
    :rofl:

    Does MHRIH stand for May he rot in hell ?
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    :rofl:

    Does MHRIH stand for May he rot in hell ?
    Yep
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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    I give up. I wish you guys the best and hopefully one day you come to realise what I was saying. Goodbye
    We know what you are saying. You have made it perfectly clear.

    You believe that the Quran permits Muslim husbands to beat their wives, under certain conditions.
    Most civilised people do not consider any kind of domestic violence to be acceptable.
    You believe that it is, because of your religion.
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    (Original post by xxvine)
    So because other mass shooters haven't been religious is makes it okay and doesn't show the fast that America has a gun problem?
    Okay
    WTF are you on about?
    You claimed that this attack had nothing to do with religion, that the only relevant issue was gun control.

    I simply demonstrated that you are wrong.
    Don't cry about it.
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    Islamic people are killed in droves in their own country, their country is ripped apart and destroyed but who care when poor innocent western people are dying !! and they even attacked Gays ?!! how dare they. Excuse me if i don't claim to be a victim, since frankly both sides aren't, since we've both done horrible shite to each other, for years. I don't see the difference of a Gay life over the lives lost in the middle east right now, thanks to american and western actions, which is still going on. The fact that ; US drone over 60 civilians every day in Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia. In the presidency of George W. Bush Jr. more than 3 million Muslims killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    America and NATO have killed more than 4 thousands civilians in Libya in 2011 and more than two thousand others in Yemen during 2009 and 2014. means nothing and is in no way why people support ISIS and attack the west, its all due to the islamic book and teaching, which i think now 1.5B people follow. sometimes i wonder if people are ignorant or just plain stupid.

    honestly excuse me if i don't shed a tear or change my FB pic to a attention seeking rainbow flag/french falg. With all the people dying and shite around the world, I think I'll just carry on my life, like most people have, and over look it, since i cant do shite and no enough people care to do anything, But spread more hate and start more attacks, may it be from both sides.
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    you seriously need to get out more
    I'd love to, but I'm a housebound agoraphobic.

    Now, what's your excuse?
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    I agree with the sentiment, but I disagree with the connotations that they lack sympathy; they needn't express sympathy to have sympathy.

    Of course [expressed] sympathy would be appreciated though.

    I guess some people just follow the idea of "The past is already written; the ink is dry." Or are just desensitised to it or are detached from it. (Not that these are necessarily good or alright though.)

    I also disagree with the statement "Disgusting" as I don't think it's applicable to every person who does this; although presumably few in numbers, sociopaths exist, and I don't think it's their fault they lack empathy.

    I don't mean to butcher a well-intentioned post, but things came to mind when I read your post.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    You missed the point, of course expressing sympathy and having sympathy are different however the idea that most are more hurt by the idea of their beliefs being undermined than the incident itself is terrible.

    Like you said, this whole idea of "the past is already written" isn't really applicable. We could go back and fourth but its obvious people are more concerned about defending religious beliefs and not simply because their desensitised (which may be a factor)

    How is it not Disgusting? As someone who is extremely prevalent within the Muslim community this is extremely common, people are more hurt at their views being questioned rather than being genuinely hurt at the event at hand.

    Before I get slandered for not being politically correct, my views dont represent all muslims however you dont need to go far to see my point. Even on this website and other social media outlets you can witness this taking place.

    Making the excuse that most of them are sociopaths doesnt cut it with me.
    Its quite obvious when a tragic event like this occurs people are more interested in using it to defend/promote a certain belief type or they're too busy comparing it to an event more significant to them. (eg/ Comparing incidents in the west to what occurs in Palestine as if its justification)
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    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    Looool If you read my comment if you even make their skin turn red. You know exactly what I was trying to say about how much pain you can actually cause but you than went with the "you can get hurt without any marks". SMH
    What an absolutely vile and sickening attitude you have towards woman. Beating them is NEVER acceptable under ANY circumstances, what's so hard to understand about that?
 
 
 
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