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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    When was the last time you heard about a female suicide bomber, let alone one wearing a burkini?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/wo...bers.html?_r=0


    You can always count on Islam to turn women into terrorists
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    When was the last time you heard about a female suicide bomber
    The Paris attacks with Hasna Aitboulahcen
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    I don't think I understood what you said. I never said terrorists aren't related to Islam.
    Well that makes two of us then.You said correlation doesnt equal causation.What were you on about then?
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    How is that comparable? That's like trying to compare us allowing a white t-shirt with black text on saying "[insert quirky catchphrase here]" but banning a white t-shirt with black text on with grossly racist language. It's the symbol rather than the literal garment that is in question here.



    I don't like the idea of segregated beaches for either - but it appears many who are saying this burkini ban is unjust are conveniently forgetting that France also bans nudism in public on the basis of social and moral justifications.
    And no it's not. If this was called a wetsuit, NO ONE would have an issue with it. Exactly what does this represent? You wouldn't be wearing this any where except on the damn beach

    (Original post by Robby2312)
    When was the last time you heard about a jewish or christian suicide bomber? Its not unreasonable considering 200 people have been killed in the last 2 years for the french to want to limit extreme versions of Islam.And tbh if you cant go swimming without having your hair uncovered then you are taking islam to the extreme and hence more likely to be an islamic extremist.
    Well Bush went in to Iraq because "God told him to" Now he didn't commit suicide but he certainly bombed a lot of people... Oh and FYI, there have been Christian and Jewish extremists too. Exactly how is the burkini an extreme version of Islam? It's not exactly loose fitting even is it? And what? Many south Asian women will want to wear it too, regardless of faith. Many women may also decide to wear it, if they want to hide their fat... Again, why is it never an issue when a man covers up?
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    There's no rule against clothing on nudist beaches. If you wear a top nobody bats an eyelid.

    But if you had a burkini beach, it wouldn't be acceptable to wear a bikini, would it? There'd definitely be some tensions there... Also I gotta say, not sure if many men would attend that one o.O
    Why wouldn't it be acceptable to wear a bikini on said beaches? And let's face it, in reality, on a nudist beach, the vast vast majority of people will be stark naked.
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    And no it's not. If this was called a wetsuit, NO ONE would have an issue with it. Exactly what does this represent? You wouldn't be wearing this any where except on the damn beach



    Well Bush went in to Iraq because "God told him to" Now he didn't commit suicide but he certainly bombed a lot of people... Oh and FYI, there have been Christian and Jewish extremists too. Exactly how is the burkini an extreme version of Islam? It's not exactly loose fitting even is it? And what? Many south Asian women will want to wear it too, regardless of faith. Many women may also decide to wear it, if they want to hide their fat... Again, why is it never an issue when a man covers up?
    That was a war thats different than killing random civilians.Yes there was a lot of collateral damage but intentions matter we didnt go there purely to terrorise the population.Let me put it this way if we had perfect weapons that never missed their targets then we'd only kill soldiers or terrorists.If terrorists had perfect weapons then they'd kill lots of civilians.So intentions do matter.There have been christian and jewish extremists but the current issue is radical islam.And also were they motivated by their religion?Islamic extremists are motivated by Islam.Many of them even say they're motivated by it.Are you really going to deny a terrorists own words on what motivates him?And yes it is an extreme version of Islam when wonen cover from head to toe.As Islam teaches that women have to cover up but not necessarily where a burka.Then yes you are taking it to the extreme if you wear a burka or something thats pretty much the same as one.Its usually a man forcing a woman to cover up, if a man does it its more likely to be out of free choice.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    That was a war thats different than killing random civilians.Yes there was a lot of collateral damage but intentions matter we didnt go there purely to terrorise the population.Let me put it this way if we had perfect weapons that never missed their targets then we'd only kill soldiers or terrorists.If terrorists had perfect weapons then they'd kill lots of civilians.So intentions do matter.There have been christian and jewish extremists but the current issue is radical islam.And also were they motivated by their religion?Islamic extremists are motivated by Islam.Many of them even say they're motivated by it.Are you really going to deny a terrorists own words on what motivates him?And yes it is an extreme version of Islam when wonen cover from head to toe.As Islam teaches that women have to cover up but not necessarily where a burka.Then yes you are taking it to the extreme if you wear a burka or something thats pretty much the same as one.Its usually a man forcing a woman to cover up, if a man does it its more likely to be out of free choice.
    OK to put it another way:Breivik has killed people in the name of his religion
    As have the LRA
    As have the IRAAs have the KKKAs have abortion clinic bombers
    As has the Christian who murdered a gay prson because they're gay..

    Britain First are fine with burning mosques with people inside

    And no, we have extreme Christian and extreme Muslims right here right now... Your original point was "Oh there aren't Christian extremists" and now you're saying "Oh they're all now Muslim" even when that isn't true Oh and FYI, his actions did make Iraq a lot more unsafe as a result, so yes I'd call him an extremist, especially when "God told him to" drop those bombs.... Only an idiot believes that "dropping bombs will make them all love us"

    How do you know a man is making the woman cover up? Also, do you honestly believe that a burkini is going to be forced upon by a man, when it is fairly tight fitting?As far as I'm concerned, you just want to perv on more women, because you don't give a **** if men cover up.. (Possibly from head to toe, too)
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    A beach is an area of sand and water - why does that invalidate the right to express yourself and have the freedom to wear whatever you want? It's ironic how mayors like him dismiss that the vast majority of women (and don't tell me, who has Muslim family and friends, while you probably haven't even met a Muslim in your life, that it's a minority) who say they are wearing the burkini BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, and instead acts like he has some superior insight into HER OWN MIND and condemns HER FREEWILL as oppression. AND THEN ENFORCES CLOTHING ON HER THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO WEAR?! Sounds like a familiar narrative the media poses with regards to religion, a belief a person has CHOSEN TO FOLLOW. Don't associate yourself with the movement of feminism if you aren't for the freedom of ALL WOMEN to choose to live their lives the way THEY WANT. It's insulting.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    That was a war thats different than killing random civilians.Yes there was a lot of collateral damage but intentions matter we didnt go there purely to terrorise the population.Let me put it this way if we had perfect weapons that never missed their targets then we'd only kill soldiers or terrorists.If terrorists had perfect weapons then they'd kill lots of civilians.So intentions do matter.There have been christian and jewish extremists but the current issue is radical islam.And also were they motivated by their religion?Islamic extremists are motivated by Islam.Many of them even say they're motivated by it.Are you really going to deny a terrorists own words on what motivates him?And yes it is an extreme version of Islam when wonen cover from head to toe.As Islam teaches that women have to cover up but not necessarily where a burka.Then yes you are taking it to the extreme if you wear a burka or something thats pretty much the same as one.Its usually a man forcing a woman to cover up, if a man does it its more likely to be out of free choice.
    I wasn't aware you had qualifications in the study of the Qur'an and Islamic law. From which prestigious institute did you graduate from? Google? BBC?
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    OK to put it another way:Breivik has killed people in the name of his religion
    As have the LRA
    As have the IRAAs have the KKKAs have abortion clinic bombers
    As has the Christian who murdered a gay prson because they're gay..

    Britain First are fine with burning mosques with people inside

    And no, we have extreme Christian and extreme Muslims right here right now... Your original point was "Oh there aren't Christian extremists" and now you're saying "Oh they're all now Muslim" even when that isn't true Oh and FYI, his actions did make Iraq a lot more unsafe as a result, so yes I'd call him an extremist, especially when "God told him to" drop those bombs.... Only an idiot believes that "dropping bombs will make them all love us"

    How do you know a man is making the woman cover up? Also, do you honestly believe that a burkini is going to be forced upon by a man, when it is fairly tight fitting?As far as I'm concerned, you just want to perv on more women, because you don't give a **** if men cover up.. (Possibly from head to toe, too)
    Well actually im not really a big fan of women so no I dont want to perv on more women.Breivik did not kill people in the name of his religion he killed people because he was an anti-immigrant far right nationalist.Im saying the current issue is islamic extremism.The fact that there have been christian extremists doesnt detract from my point.If anything it adds to it.Both religions are anti-gay,anti-women,anti-abortion.The common theme is religion.It drives people to commit violent acts because of their beliefs.You're being naive about iraq.What would you have done?Just left a dictator in charge who'd commited genocide against the kurdish people with chemical weapons in the past?
    Maybe he didnt have chemical weapons at that point but he defintely did in the past.If anything its more immoral just to leave a dictator in place.I know a man is making a women cover up because its a pretty common theme across islamic countries all they've done is imported their religion here.
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    (Original post by Djoudee)
    I wasn't aware you had qualifications in the study of the Qur'an and Islamic law. From which prestigious institute did you graduate from? Google? BBC?
    For the record I also dont have qualifications in harry potter.Sorry.
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    Look basically It's not enough to have simply read a few article pieces featuring murderers and to base your judgement of what is extreme and what isn't by what they write and say. It's like constantly reading articles about Donald Trump and saying "America is a bad country because look Trump wants to ruin the world in its name and so all Americans obviously have the same interpretation of what it means to be American like him". "Where are the moderate white Americans condoning him - no I want a majority not a just a handful of politicians" one might ask. The majority of Americans are living life. Studying at school. Having a job. Raising a family. Their opinions differ to Trump's drastically but their voices aren't the ones featured in the news because the media wants drama and outrage. Featuring a normal person living their normal life isn't glamorous enough to make headlines. And so the above analogy can be applied to the presence of your typical Muslims - they aren't heard so apparently to the new reader they don't exist.

    Having true understanding of what Islam is comes with firstly actually picking up a Qur'an and reading it. The whole thing. AND THEN comes analysing and reading up into the tafseer (commentary by esteemed companions of prophet Muhammed at that time, as well as scholars who made it their life's work to extract the true meaning and context of the verses) of the Qur'an and reading up into the fataawa (rulings) of accredited scholars, ones that have authoritative creditentials from a renowned institute, not your "angry sheikh/imam" featured in the daily mail (which most of the time isn't actually true, as with the case of Ali Hammuda - I was actually dying of laughter at the ridiculous conclusion the trashy journalist had drawn from his speech, like I didn't think it was possible to even interpret his words in that way)

    Do all Muslims partake it such vigorous scrutiny of the Qur'an and Islamic teachings? Nope. Can they still practice the religion in its true form without compromising basic human decency and morals? Surprise surprise YES they can because firstly islam promotes decent qualities (don't be like "I haven't heard of any verses like that" GO AND READ THEM FOR YOURSELF FROM THE ACTUAL SOURCE (I personally recommend Bayyinah institute on youtube, they have an excellent selection of educated people) and also because Muslims who aren't scholars, when reading the Qur'an on face value acknowledge that they don't know the context of the verses and so don't jump to the conclusion that eg. said verse written specifically for the duration of the Battle of Uhud is a call for Muslims to uphold a continual state of war for all of time, after said battle had been ended by both parties 1400 years ago. And also because if they were they they wouldn't have time to like practice the five pillars of Islam which are the fundamentals of being a muslim (and surprisingly none of which are 'war')

    Basically in conclusion the "muslims" featured in the news have reached their conclusions of Islam because they did exactly what you did - form judgements based on a frail and shallow understanding (which thankfully in your case has only led you to have a prejudiced view of Muslims (WHICH BTW I DONT BLAME YOU FOR AT ALL - our governing and media system is to blame for pushing this shallow narrative instead of encouraging people to educate themselves - education is the only true cure to ignorance)) but as we do see on the news, it can have catastrophic effects which hurts both muslims and non muslims.

    As I've mentioned before I have muslim cousins and friends so if there's anything more you want clarification with or help, contact me on tumblr (blog is djoudee) and I'll be more than happy to ask them for you.

    I sincerely hope you don't take this as me hating on you like I think you are a sensible person but just haven't had the chance to be exposed to the right influences - so stay cool and be open to acknowledging that nobody has a definitively "right" judgement so we should remember that there's always another side of the coin to look into.
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    Why wouldn't it be acceptable to wear a bikini on said beaches? And let's face it, in reality, on a nudist beach, the vast vast majority of people will be stark naked.
    Lol. I highly doubt you'd be welcome at a burkini beach wearing non-Islamic dress.

    And yes - at nudist beaches there are a lot of people naked or topless. But not everybody is, and nobody *cares* if you wear a top, or pants. You're certainly not going to be insulted for wearing clothes.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    When was the last time you heard about a jewish or christian suicide bomber? Its not unreasonable considering 200 people have been killed in the last 2 years for the french to want to limit extreme versions of Islam.And tbh if you cant go swimming without having your hair uncovered then you are taking islam to the extreme and hence more likely to be an islamic extremist.
    A woman wearing a burkini doesn't necessarily mean she follows an extreme interpretation of Islam. Some of the most liberal Muslims I have come across have worn the hijab. The burkini provides near enough the same extent of coverage that your average hijab wearing Muslim has. Quite simply, the burkini is not a burka.

    Now obviously there has been a recent issue with extreme interpretations of Islam in France, as seen from the multiple terrorist attacks we have all seen. And there is no doubt that some action needs to be taken to counter this extreme interpretation of Islam. But I don't think the answer is in telling women what they can and can't wear. By controlling what women can and can't wear, we are effectively placing ourselves on the same level as Saudi Arabia.

    There surely must be better methods to tackling extreme interpretations of Islam without having to forgo the rights and freedoms we extend to all citizens.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    By controlling what women can and can't wear, we are effectively placing ourselves on the same level as Saudi Arabia.
    Good. The French are due another revolution, and another monarch/emperor...

    Maybe the Sixth Republic can do better
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    A woman wearing a burkini doesn't necessarily mean she follows an extreme interpretation of Islam.
    Given there are some who don't do this then yes this would be on the end of the extreme spectrum
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Given there are some who don't do this then yes this would be on the end of the extreme spectrum
    I have seen non-Hijab wearing Muslims on TSR who support Wahhabi Islam. So given that extreme Muslims who don't wear Hijab exist, then it would seem to imply that the issue is more nuanced.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    A woman wearing a burkini doesn't necessarily mean she follows an extreme interpretation of Islam. Some of the most liberal Muslims I have come across have worn the hijab. The burkini provides near enough the same extent of coverage that your average hijab wearing Muslim has. Quite simply, the burkini is not a burka.

    Now obviously there has been a recent issue with extreme interpretations of Islam in France, as seen from the multiple terrorist attacks we have all seen. And there is no doubt that some action needs to be taken to counter this extreme interpretation of Islam. But I don't think the answer is in telling women what they can and can't wear. By controlling what women can and can't wear, we are effectively placing ourselves on the same level as Saudi Arabia.

    There surely must be better methods to tackling extreme interpretations of Islam without having to forgo the rights and freedoms we extend to all citizens.
    Its incredibly ironic that in the west women have finally been freed from oppression and they can finally wear whatever they want.And yet you're now essentially arguing for a womans right to be oppressed if she chooses it.To use an analogy its as though we abolished slavery and then have some slaves of a certain culture saying actually we quite liked being slaves.How dare you take away our choice of being slaves? Its just ironic and stupid.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Its incredibly ironic that in the west women have finally been freed from oppression and they can finally wear whatever they want.And yet you're now essentially arguing for a womans right to be oppressed if she chooses it.
    It is incredibly ironic that you wish to tell women what they can and can't wear, and yet proclaim to be advocator of women's rights. Now if we want to to talk about women who are forced to cover up by family members, partners or because of social pressures, then that is a valid topic that needs to addressed. But the solution is not to stop any women making the choice to wear a hijab.

    To use an analogy its as though we abolished slavery and then have some slaves of a certain culture saying actually we quite liked being slaves.How dare you take away our choice of being slaves? Its just ironic and stupid.
    That is a rather poor analogy. There is no human right that permits you to forfeit your human rights. Show me which human right is being denied to women who are given the right to choose what they want to wear, and I will show you which human right is being denied by the practice of slavery.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Well that makes two of us then.You said correlation doesnt equal causation.What were you on about then?
    Oh right. I meant wearing a hijab doesn't cause extremism just because female extremists wear hijab. Also, since many terrorists like to break rules and visit strip clubs before an attack I don't see why non-hijabis can't do the same and also be extremists.
 
 
 
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