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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    What about those of us who began learning these ^ alongside the traditional preclinical theory?
    It does say 'focussing' before the bit you bolded.

    So yes you might do it now as part of your preclin, but you tend to focus more on the medical science bit of the course as opposed to the bit you bolded. Still doesn't change the definition.
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    (Original post by vertigo.0012)
    What sort of stuff were you thinking of putting in there?
    Yep to echo what yourself and Digitalis said, it would be the theory behind medicine, like anatomy, physiology, path and pharm (4 sections to each system) with a few interesting/relevant clinical bits of info. And I'll probably do a quick bit on OSCE stuff like exams, histories and skills because I'm that damn cool

    Thanks for your positive responses guys :] I guess I had better get writing... :C

    A few of you have said it would only be worth doing if done right - what do you think would make a good revision guide? I'll upload a sample once I get back home to the scanner...

    Cheers
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    (Original post by Medicine Man)
    It does say 'focussing' before the bit you bolded.

    So yes you might do it now as part of your preclin, but you tend to focus more on the medical science bit of the course as opposed to the bit you bolded. Still doesn't change the definition.
    Touche
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    What about those of us who began learning these ^ alongside the traditional preclinical theory?
    I'm on one of those courses (for my sins) and whatever meagre clinical skills I learnt in Year 1 and 2 were of little use when I came to real life patients in year 3.

    The ridiculousness of spouting in a year 1 OSCE "there are no janeway lesions, oslers nodes, palmar erythema....heart sounds I and II audible with no added sounds" only became apparent later (buoyed up by the thought at the time of doing 'proper' medicine) when actually I didn't even know what said lesions were, let alone why they came about (isn't that the point of preclinical medicine)?
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    I'm on one of those courses (for my sins) and whatever meagre clinical skills I learnt in Year 1 and 2 were of little use when I came to real life patients in year 3.

    The ridiculousness of spouting in a year 1 OSCE "there are no janeway lesions, oslers nodes, palmar erythema....heart sounds I and II audible with no added sounds" only became apparent later (buoyed up by the thought at the time of doing 'proper' medicine) when actually I didn't even know what said lesions were, let alone why they came about (isn't that the point of preclinical medicine)?
    lmao all so true
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    I'm on one of those courses (for my sins) and whatever meagre clinical skills I learnt in Year 1 and 2 were of little use when I came to real life patients in year 3.

    The ridiculousness of spouting in a year 1 OSCE "there are no janeway lesions, oslers nodes, palmar erythema....heart sounds I and II audible with no added sounds" only became apparent later (buoyed up by the thought at the time of doing 'proper' medicine) when actually I didn't even know what said lesions were, let alone why they came about (isn't that the point of preclinical medicine)?
    This is what I hated about assessing us with OSCE's this year, I actually remember doing my OSCE exam and saying "there are no mumurs or added heart sounds" because that's what we had to say, yet I (and I can imagine most other students) wouldn't even know what a mumur or "extra sound" sounds like.

    I don't mind the fact that we are introduced to clinical skills early on, if anything I think it's pretty cool but assessing us on them is ridicolous and giving them equal weight to clinical knowledge at this early stage of our course (where the knowledge that we develop is the prime focus) is a bit of a joke, especially when as Digitalis said how little use these will actually prove to us when we meet real patients
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    (Original post by speedystef)
    This is what I hated about assessing us with OSCE's this year, I actually remember doing my OSCE exam and saying "there are no mumurs or added heart sounds" because that's what we had to say, yet I (and I can imagine most other students) wouldn't even know what a mumur or "extra sound" sounds like.

    I don't mind the fact that we are introduced to clinical skills early on, if anything I think it's pretty cool but assessing us on them is ridicolous and giving them equal weight to clinical knowledge at this early stage of our course (where the knowledge that we develop is the prime focus) is a bit of a joke, especially when as Digitalis said how little use these will actually prove to us when we meet real patients
    This is essentially my philosophy about early clinical skills too. Relatively good introducing them, irksome examining them.
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    I think it would be useful if they gave us some recordings of heart mumurs/extra heart sounds/abnormal breathing sounds/etc and normal recordings to listen to and compare. At least then it wouldn't be SO retarded to examine us on it.

    I do think it's stupid to ask us to do BP on a young girl with THE faintest turbulance sound/pulse I've ever heard/felt in a room full of people talking. I don't even think daredevil could have done that accurately.
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    I'm on one of those courses (for my sins) and whatever meagre clinical skills I learnt in Year 1 and 2 were of little use when I came to real life patients in year 3.

    The ridiculousness of spouting in a year 1 OSCE "there are no janeway lesions, oslers nodes, palmar erythema....heart sounds I and II audible with no added sounds" only became apparent later (buoyed up by the thought at the time of doing 'proper' medicine) when actually I didn't even know what said lesions were, let alone why they came about (isn't that the point of preclinical medicine)?
    Most sensible thing I've heard in a while.
    Dunno why everyone's trying as hard as they can to move towards the new fashioned way
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    This is essentially my philosophy about early clinical skills too. Relatively good introducing them, irksome examining them.
    While I do agree, I think there is value in examining first years:

    1. Its promotes actually learning and practising the skills, rather than just learning them once and forgetting them.

    2. It allows students to become used to the systems around examination, removes some of the anxiety. Therefore when it comes to the ISCE's which have much greater value, some of the confounding variably in results caused by anxiety or unknown examination methods can be reduced.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    While I do agree, I think there is value in examining first years:

    1. Its promotes actually learning and practising the skills, rather than just learning them once and forgetting them.

    2. It allows students to become used to the systems around examination, removes some of the anxiety. Therefore when it comes to the ISCE's which have much greater value, some of the confounding variably in results caused by anxiety or unknown examination methods can be reduced.
    1. Many of the people I know learned these skills purely for the OSSEs to get through them and then forgot them. Mostly because it feels somewhat out of place. Partly for what Digitalis said about lacking understanding for the signs you're eliciting; it becomes a list of things to do and say, which doesn't promote learning in my opinion.

    2. I agree with that to some extent. I'm not sure, having done 39 OSSE stations, that I'll be any more or less anxious about my next one though.
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    Despite the best efforts of occy health I'm still not immune to Hep B. Maybe next year.
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    So, I finish work. It's late, dark, I'm tired and I want to get home.

    I walk up to my car, fish out my keys and go to open the door. Some little **** has smeared my door handle with ketchup. I had to walk all the way back to work to get some ****ing tissues. The ketchup was ****ing everywhere. FUUUUUUUUUUUU!
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    (Original post by RollerBall)
    I do think it's stupid to ask us to do BP on a young girl with THE faintest turbulance sound/pulse
    I rest my case

    Yout' these days...
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    While I do agree, I think there is value in examining first years:

    1. Its promotes actually learning and practising the skills, rather than just learning them once and forgetting them.


    2. It allows students to become used to the systems around examination, removes some of the anxiety. Therefore when it comes to the ISCE's which have much greater value, some of the confounding variably in results caused by anxiety or unknown examination methods can be reduced.
    1.) You hardly learn them once and forget them in clinical years. Anyway, the best example of the uselessness of clinical teaching in first and second year and the supposed 'advantage' is to look at Oxbridge transfers into third year.

    I remember us all being smug and laughing at these guys that they were putting their tubes in the wrong way and not being able to even take a BP (chortle chortle, until we all saw the automatic obs machines and monitors on every bed, never taken a BP since) and after a month, they were smashing out top class examinations and clerkings. One girl from Cambridge even jointly won the 'Snickers' award from our HO for best student out of a firm of 10 (that BA was totes worth it)

    2.) Anxiety is not a confounding variable. "Unknown" examination methods = piss poor preparation.
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    (Original post by Fission_Mailed)
    Despite the best efforts of occy health I'm still not immune to Hep B. Maybe next year.
    I was immune and became un-immune I am special :awesome:
    Currently immune again...
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    (Original post by crazylemon)
    I was immune and became un-immune I am special :awesome:
    Currently immune again...
    Im gonna burst your special bubble lol.....
    I am special aswell!
    This happened to me.
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    (Original post by fairy spangles)
    Im gonna burst your special bubble lol.....
    I am special aswell!
    This happened to me.
    :unimpressed:

    I don't get how I went from immune to <10 though it wasn't even like just under...
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    Talking about Hep B, I wasn't immune after 3 courses, then had another 3 courses and am still not immune! What happens if this goes on forever?!
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    I rest my case

    Yout' these days...
    Ah shutupayaface. Fine, korotkoff sounds and pulse Mr Pendantic.
 
 
 
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