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    (Original post by Aph)
    The second part, about not electing our government...
    How long until you think there will be any elections from the demos related to the commission?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    How long until you think there will be any elections from the demos related to the commission?
    We indirectly elect the commissioners and the president...
    In fact the president is just as elected as the prime minister.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    We indirectly elect the commissioners and the president...
    In fact the president is just as elected as the prime minister.
    we indirectly elect the commissioners...by picking somebody who has been rejected by the electorate and broadly doesn't matter who we elect.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    we indirectly elect the commissioners...by picking somebody who has been rejected by the electorate and broadly doesn't matter who we elect.
    That's the fault of the prime minister not of the EU.
    and it's the EU Commission president who sets the legislative agenda.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    That's the fault of the prime minister not of the EU.
    and it's the EU Commission president who sets the legislative agenda.
    So it's all down to but a single person setting the agenda and you think the most democratic way of doing things is to very indirectly elect them? I wonder what the populace would say if you told them "okay, from nw on the Queen sets the agenda," or if you told the Americans "okay, you don't vote for your president, congress doesn't only approve the president but appoints them in the first place, and you won't know who the nominees are when voting for congress, and they won't tell you who they're supporting". The word "revolution" springs to mind.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So it's all down to but a single person setting the agenda and you think the most democratic way of doing things is to very indirectly elect them? I wonder what the populace would say if you told them "okay, from nw on the Queen sets the agenda," or if you told the Americans "okay, you don't vote for your president, congress doesn't only approve the president but appoints them in the first place, and you won't know who the nominees are when voting for congress, and they won't tell you who they're supporting". The word "revolution" springs to mind.
    Generally the PM sets the agenda in the UK... I would let MEPs submit PMBs but that's all.
    And they aren't indirectly elected... The presidential candidate of the largest EU party gets the commission nomination to become president and the MEPs then get to approve them... So the people who commands the confidence of the house gets to set the agenda. Plus the Parliment can dissolve the commission at any point...
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So it's all down to but a single person setting the agenda and you think the most democratic way of doing things is to very indirectly elect them? I wonder what the populace would say if you told them "okay, from nw on the Queen sets the agenda," or if you told the Americans "okay, you don't vote for your president, congress doesn't only approve the president but appoints them in the first place, and you won't know who the nominees are when voting for congress, and they won't tell you who they're supporting". The word "revolution" springs to mind.
    You are trying to equivalate national and supranational levels ; where they are inherently different. The former helps dictate the latters direct ( that is direction of UK/EU ministers ).
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    You are trying to equivalate national and supranational levels ; where they are inherently different. The former helps dictate the latters direct ( that is direction of UK/EU ministers ).
    In theory, in practice the latter dictates the former's direction, unless the former is Deutschland.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    In theory, in practice the latter dictates the former's direction, unless the former is Deutschland.
    Whilst fairly - not completely - true, I still think given a near continent cry for greater democracy ( though it's transparency which is needed ) the EU will slowly shift back into what it should be, not what people think it's becoming.
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    Whilst fairly - not completely - true, I still think given a near continent cry for greater democracy ( though it's transparency which is needed ) the EU will slowly shift back into what it should be, not what people think it's becoming.
    What it should be died before it was even conceived.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What it should be died before it was even conceived.
    I see it as a parabola. Where now it's at it's minimum point. From here it should learn and grow - as it has been doing slowly.
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    I see it as a parabola. Where now it's at it's minimum point. From here it should learn and grow - as it has been doing slowly.
    Has it? Unless of course the goal and the perceived goal are the same

    In other news, Trump is giving a brexit speech next Wednesday, we all know what the headlines will be about on referendum day

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    New poll, comres phone:
    R 46%(-6)
    L 45% (+4)

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    UKIP surely the real winners in this, regardless of whether we stay or leave.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    UKIP surely the real winners in this, regardless of whether we stay or leave.

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    Only if they can use the first few years to establish themselves

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    Time to in eat in the FTSE with the pre brexit panic going on

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    Lime-man, JD and Nigel walk into a bar… [finish this] :teehee:
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Lime-man, JD and Nigel walk into a bar… [finish this] :teehee:
    Bartender screams for last orders

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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Lime-man, JD and Nigel walk into a bar… [finish this] :teehee:
    #triggered
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    I don't buy much of a post Brexit benefit to Ukip. In Scotland you saw that the left were willing to betray the union while the party of the left (Labour) put itself on the wrong side of its voters debate. Here we have Ukip, a party mostly of the right however the main party of the right is agreeable to its aims and may well elect a skeptic.

    There is more potential for Ukip to take Labour votes but the Ukip leadership is not especially left so i doubt they'll take advantage.
 
 
 
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