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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV Watch

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    Sad to see people have become so cold and callous that they find some way to defend the murder of innocent civillians. It's always the same people too, people such as Bill_Gates
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    44% voted for Hamas, its not a game of whose killed more but whose in the morally wrong position and showing the most aggression.

    Either way this conversation is over, my support for Israel will never end. Its the only hope for humanity in the middle east.
    All of a sudden it doesn't matter who has killed more because its obvious that its a one sided massacre. So what if 44% voted for Hamas, does that mean they have the right to die now. The way you replied makes it sound like you don't care if the Gazans die.
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    (Original post by mxcvii)
    All of a sudden it doesn't matter who has killed more because its obvious that its a one sided massacre. So what if 44% voted for Hamas, does that mean they have the right to die now. The way you replied makes it sound like you don't care if the Gazans die.
    Sounds like Hamas don't care if Israeli's die. Of course i care but the emphasis is on hamas and the people they represent. SOUNDS LIKE HAMAS DON'T CARE?!

    Maybe this is some interpretation of Jihad?!, enjoy it i say.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Sounds like Hamas don't care if Israeli's die. Of course i care but the emphasis is on hamas and the people they represent. SOUNDS LIKE HAMAS DON'T CARE?!

    Maybe this is some interpretation of Jihad?!, enjoy it i say.
    Its quite obvious that Hamas doesn't care. I never said they cared. At this point I don't think Hamas represents anyone. The only reason I'm supporting the Gazans is because of the fact that Israel are killing more Children than Hamas members. Israel is the one bulldozing Gazans homes not Hamas.
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    (Original post by mxcvii)
    Its quite obvious that Hamas doesn't care. I never said they cared. At this point I don't think Hamas represents anyone. The only reason I'm supporting the Gazans is because of the fact that Israel are killing more Children than Hamas members. Israel is the one bulldozing Gazans homes not Hamas.
    there you go with the numbers again. Do not fight a lion with a stick, if they want peace they should of not voted Hamas, accepted the various two state agreements that have been offered.

    You cannot be sorry for someone elses mistakes.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    there you go with the numbers again. Do not fight a lion with a stick, if they want peace they should of not voted Hamas, accepted the various two state agreements that have been offered.

    You cannot be sorry for someone elses mistakes.
    I didn't mention any numbers. I just said more children are dying than Hamas members. Is there anything wrong with that. You don't kill someone's kids for there Parents mistakes, that is what Israel is doing now. Also like you said 44% voted for Hamas, what about the other 56% that didn't vote for Hamas. How many of them have died. I don't think you care anyway. From what I'm aware of one agreement was broken by Israel, it was (if memory serves me right) because of an Israelis soldiers death. Israel claimed he died after the truce so Israel started attacking again whilst Hamas said he was killed in action before the truce or any peace talks.
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    This is the result of years of not taking responsibility. There are so many legal spirals this conflict has now where the rule of law has been manipulated and constructed to be within Israel's favour. It's dirty, international politics. America and Britain now how much they fostered the development of Israel, almost like a sick tradition. In what mind set should children be dying at the hands of war in this day and age? Israel are the ultimate terror state- illegally capturing land and massacring since 1948. Don't forget Deir Yassin, or the acquisition of land by terror. Or the blue prints the IDF had of stopping water supplies to the city.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I thought it was a memorial thread not a discussion thread. I mean, this topic has been discussed plenty of times. If the people of Gaza want things to improve they could, you know, stop firing rockets at Israel.
    Stop firing rockets? This is literally a humanitarian issue. This is absolute genocide. The people of Gaza? By that do you mean Hamas, a small tiny resistance force CREATED BY ISRAEL for the constant bombardment. Please, take some time to watch Jon Snows coverage on Gaza. Is it a coincidence the vast majority of western media is turning a blind eye? 100,000 march on London and the BBC refrain from covering it? It literally disgusts me how you can come out with a comment like that. Sheer ignorance that the world sits by and watches absolute genocide. Please, anyone pro-israel with half a brain, please watch this counter argument and tell me your thoughts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL9lYxKSZ9w
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    (Original post by Et Tu, Brute?)
    Killing in general is not acceptable, it doesn't matter if it is with a rocket or multiple paper cuts.
    I wouldn't go as far as saying 'never' acceptable, but certainly in most cases it is not acceptable. In war it is, although of course should be limited to combatants/ decision making civilians.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Feiglin didn't call for genocide. He called for something pretty reprehensible but certainly not genocide.
    He called for the annihilation of any that resisted being imprisoned in a concentration camp, sure sounds like genocide to me.
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    (Original post by TSR1995)
    Stop firing rockets? This is literally a humanitarian issue. (1) This is absolute genocide. The people of Gaza? (2) By that do you mean Hamas, a small tiny resistance force CREATED BY ISRAEL for the constant bombardment. Please, take some time to watch Jon Snows coverage on Gaza. (3) Is it a coincidence the vast majority of western media is turning a blind eye? (4) 100,000 march on London and the BBC refrain from covering it? It literally disgusts me how you can come out with a comment like that. (5) Sheer ignorance that the world sits by and watches absolute genocide. Please, anyone pro-israel with half a brain, please watch this counter argument and tell me your thoughts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL9lYxKSZ9w
    I've taken the liberty of numbering your statements to respond to.

    (1) It is absolutely not genocide. Either you know nothing about what is going on, nothing about genocide or you are deliberately lying. Which is it?

    (2) Hamas are not the only group firing rockets from Gaza but we may as well lump them all together for all the difference it makes. Also on (2) Sheik Yassin founded Hamas in 1988 or so. Not created by Israel - I think you may need a tin foil hat.

    (3) Either you do not watch TV, listen to the radio or read newspapers; or you're lying. Which is it?

    (4) Again not true: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28715052 Are you ignorant or lying? Which is it?

    (5) Not genocide and have you not noticed negotiations in Egypt are going on and have been going on for a while now?

    In short, you are either ignorant or lying. Please tell us which is it. Thanks.
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    (Original post by mxcvii)
    Not Gaza you mean Hamas don't you. If you look at the stats since this war started a month ago only 66 Israelis have died, 63 which were Soldiers, the other 3 were Civilians. Its extremely hard to believe that Hamas has been firing rockets endlessly for a month and have only managed to kill 3 civilians, now that I think about it Israel does own a lot of the media.

    What warning? Are you talking about the ones telling people to GTFO we're gonna bomb the place.
    Yeah the ones where the Israeli army phones up people to tell them that they are about to hit their building and they should leave. That is very obviously not the action of an army that just wants to kill as many people as possible. So are you ignorant or lying?

    And on the bit in bold:

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    (Original post by n00)
    He called for the annihilation of any that resisted being imprisoned in a concentration camp, sure sounds like genocide to me.
    I read his letter in the original and his plan is clear: set up camps for Gaza civilians, empty Gaza of the innocent, then remove all traces of Hamas and other terrorists, then encourage Palestinians to leave and those who refuse can go back to Gaza.

    There is no genocide in that plan.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I read his letter in the original and his plan is clear: set up camps for Gaza civilians, empty Gaza of the innocent, then remove all traces of Hamas and other terrorists, then encourage Palestinians to leave and those who refuse can go back to Gaza.

    There is no genocide in that plan.

    So those that resist being imprisoned in a concentration simply cannot be innocent, must be terrorists and should be annihilated? Again sure sounds like genocide to me.
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    (Original post by n00)
    So those that resist being imprisoned in a concentration simply cannot be innocent, must be terrorists and should be annihilated? Again sure sounds like genocide to me.
    I agree with you that the plan is terrible and if it was ever executed would result in mass killings of innocent people which is why I bloody hope it is completely ignored and not touched with a bargepole. But that is because, as you say, it assumes that all innocents will gladly leave their homes which they almost certainly will not. This makes Feiglin naive at best, a moron at worst. But it does not change the fact that his plan does not envisage or include genocide as you claim.

    You seem generally to be a reasonable person and if you are you will of course know that Israel has not now nor ever in the past committed anything like genocide. So why do you think that this word is used so often with regards to Israel?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    This makes Feiglin naive at best, a moron at worst. But it does not change the fact that his plan does not envisage or include genocide as you claim.
    Only if you assume him to be naive which I think would be a mistake.
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    (Original post by n00)
    Only if you assume him to be naive which I think would be a mistake.
    Fair point. I guess we don't know for sure but we can all agree its a terrible, horrible "plan".
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    FPA statement 'protests methods by Hamas against journalists in Gaza', cites Hamas attempts to create a 'blacklist' of reporters.

    WASHINGTON - The Foreign Press Association (FPA) released a statement Monday condemning censorship by Hamas in the Gaza Strip in attempts to ensure that reports put the terrorist organization in positive light over the course of Operation Protective Edge.

    Since foreign reporters exited the Gaza Strip during a lull in fighting, several reports have surfaced showing footage that they had been afraid to show while in Gaza, but the FPA's comments are the first such claims from an official organization.

    "The FPA protests in the strongest terms the blatant, incessant, forceful and unorthodox methods employed by the Hamas authorities and their representatives against visiting international journalists in Gaza over the past month," read the statement.

    According to members of the organization, which comprises of some 500 journalists from 32 different countries, Hamas pressured and threatened reporters, preventing them from giving viewers and readers an, "objective picture from the ground."
    "In several cases, foreign reporters working in Gaza have been harassed, threatened or questioned over stories or information they have reported through their news media or by means of social media," said the FPA statement.

    The organization also said in the statement that Hamas has been trying to, "put in place a 'vetting' procedure that would, in effect, allow for the blacklisting of specific journalists. Such a procedure is vehemently opposed by the FPA."
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...557775,00.html

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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Yeah the ones where the Israeli army phones up people to tell them that they are about to hit their building and they should leave. That is very obviously not the action of an army that just wants to kill as many people as possible. So are you ignorant or lying?

    And on the bit in bold:

    Nope it isn't, it's the action of an army that wants to destroy your house and leave you homeless. That's about right, don't ya think?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I've taken the liberty of numbering your statements to respond to.

    (1) It is absolutely not genocide. Either you know nothing about what is going on, nothing about genocide or you are deliberately lying. Which is it?

    (2) Hamas are not the only group firing rockets from Gaza but we may as well lump them all together for all the difference it makes. Also on (2) Sheik Yassin founded Hamas in 1988 or so. Not created by Israel - I think you may need a tin foil hat.
    .
    (3) Either you do not watch TV, listen to the radio or read newspapers; or you're lying. Which is it?

    (4) Again not true: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28715052 Are you ignorant or lying? Which is it?

    (5) Not genocide and have you not noticed negotiations in Egypt are going on and have been going on for a while now?

    In short, you are either ignorant or lying. Please tell us which is it. Thanks.
    .
    I understand that you want to be able to support Israel, however their actions need to be looked at in terms of their long term plans, and long before the Balfour Declaration of 1947 up until today. NOT the pieces of propaganda we are exposed to.
    1. Genocide, ethnic cleansing whatever you want to call it is permitted and neccessary to fulfill the Israeli agenda for the 'complete state of 'israel'. From Israel's first PM Ben Gurions " it would be better to expel the Arabs" to enable a homogenous jewish state. Un Geneva's plans for the partition were only a short term plan. At this time there was 52,000 jews and 320,000 native Palestinians. Up until it's socio political motives of today.
    2. Sheikh Yassin was funded and supported under the Israeli 'shin Bet plans' as a measure to counter the support for Fatah and weaken the PLO.
    3. You should consider accessing 'Whole' stories independently obtained. However in the uk alone this is incredibly difficult.
    4. Uk Media in any form is not independent nor gives balanced viewpoints "pinewood Shepperton ltd." owns the two production studios in Britain and the largest one in Europe". In charge is Michael Grade, nephew of Lewis Grade who also founded itv, former chief executive of C4 and previous director of Programmes at BBC. Is now the Executive Chairman of Pinewood Shepperton. Film and media production hasn't been independent since 1930s. Newspapers are also similarly owned by Murdoch, News international and the telegraph group.
    5. israel has broken and vetoed 65 peace agreements and UN sanctions. Iraq broke 2 and we invaded,
 
 
 
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