Maths Uni Chat

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ste0731

Missed his joke there didn't you :biggrin:

Uni fee's wont affect us, and they'll be in 2012 at a VERY earliest, more likely to be 2013/2014 if they do decide to finally do something decent with them. (yes I'm for them increasing :biggrin:

)

For them increasing on the basis it wont affect you? :wink:

Reply 5221

harr

I find it hard to feel sympathetic for people who will pay higher fees when I'm being charged £12,882 pounds for this year. UK students also have the option of going to study cheaply in other countries.

Reply 5222

MrShifty

Though surely as a Channel Islands student you have your fees paid for you...

Reply 5223

Simplicity

ste0731

Missed his joke there didn't you :biggrin:

Uni fee's wont affect us, and they'll be in 2012 at a VERY earliest, more likely to be 2013/2014 if they do decide to finally do something decent with them. (yes I'm for them increasing :biggrin:

)

What was the joke? I normally get jokes, however that just seem random.

I hope so. Do you even pay uni fees? As you are classed as a poor student and your left eye. Surprised if you actually pay anything.

harr

If I was a member of the BNP I would argue that you are taking the place of a British person and you should do the degree in your own country. However, I can't join them so you are okay.

MrShifty

Though surely as a Channel Islands student you have your fees paid for you...

Its more the debt that is the problem. Like 60 grand in debt.

To be fair, I don't understand how Scotland and other European countries like Germany have little fees and we have to copy America who has a very poor educational system.

Reply 5224

ste0731

Hedgeman49

You probably wouldn't be if you were one of the people having to pay 2 or 3 times more for exactly the same service as before...

Meteorshower

For them increasing on the basis it wont affect you? :wink:

Uni should be the top of the top, and upon graduating from uni should be able to get instantly recognized as an amazing achievement like the past. However degrees these days are worthless. The obvious arguement of mickey mouse courses as well as that :smile:

Simplicity

LOL as i said on steam, it's not a disability. And everyone pays fees, just I get more grants (that I waste on crap) than other people.

And the joke was you said "mourning" instead of morning. So he said who died :biggrin:

Reply 5225

assmaster

I just loved how TSR collectively **** itself at the realisation of impending ~~doom~~ debt.
But yeah it's really uncool.

Reply 5226

Meteorshower

ste0731

So basically you want less people to go to university so that comparatively you look better? And the way in which you want this to happen is discourage poorer people from going to university (and not so poor people too!)

I'm not really worried how "amazing" people consider my degree. I think doing a degree can be an achievement that many people can benefit from.

Reply 5227

ste0731

Meteorshower

It's got nothing to do with how I look, was on about degrees in general. My third/fail/drop out degree won't look great no matter what the government does. I just think the reasons for increasing fees are far superior to the reasons to keep them the same.

Poor people will get grants to cover everything, it's the middle class as always that get pooped on. But some people have to suffer, thats the way life is.

Reply 5228

harr

MrShifty

Though surely as a Channel Islands student you have your fees paid for you...

Well I do (edit: but not by the government), but that wasn't my point.

What was my point?

Simplicity

If I was a member of the BNP I would argue that you are taking the place of a British person and you should do the degree in your own country. However, I can't join them so you are okay.

I am British. I would assume that international students bring in extra money and therefore allow you to have more home students, but that's quite possibly nonsense.

In Jersey you can study the following degrees (not counting those through the OU/similar):

Spoiler

(And those are actually awarded by Plymouth and London South Bank.)

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 5229

Meteorshower

ste0731

Fair enough, I can accept that there are reasons to increase them (not that I personally agree) but the way you were phrasing it suggested you had really crazy reasons for supporting the increase...

And a problem for the poor is the re-enforcement of the idea that university shouldn't be for them, especially the top ones, so they wont apply - grants or not.

Reply 5230

Simplicity

To be fair, they should increase them.

I wonder if graduate tuition fees are capped.

But, yeah I don't really want to be paying someone to do an arts degree.

Reply 5231

MrShifty

harr

Well I do, but that wasn't my point.

It kinda was, you stated you don't have sympathy for those paying higher fees and contrasted it with the amount "you're" charged - neglecting to mention that the vast bulk of that amount is carried by your government rather than you personally, whereas the burden of higher fees is placed entirely on students themselves.

simplicity

If I was a member of the BNP I would argue that you are taking the place of a British person and you should do the degree in your own country.

That's nonsense:

1. Channel Islands/Isle of Man students aren't subject to the cap on UK student places because their fees are paid by a different government. As such they're "taking" no-one's place - Universities can recruit as many International/Channel Islands/IOM students as they want in addition to their allocated UK student quotas.

2. Caps on UK students are put in place because of the financial burden of supporting them, not the capacity of the universities themselves.

3. Channel Islands/IOM are distinct jurisdictions with their own parliaments and income from which their students fees are paid, so they're actually paying into the UK higher education system.

4. They may not technically be British in the sense of being a part of the UK, they are subjects of the British Crown (as much as it irks some of the Manninagh, not sure about the Jersey/Guernsey folk).

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 5232

Simplicity

harr

What was my point?I am British. I would assume that international students bring in extra money and therefore allow you to have more home students, but that's quite possibly nonsense.

In Jersey you can study the following degrees (not counting those through the OU/similar):

Spoiler

(And those are actually awarded by Plymouth and London South Bank.)

Why you paying international fees?

Jersey is closer to France. Why isn't it considered French instead of being part of the United Kingdom.

Reply 5233

MrShifty

Simplicity

Why you paying international fees?

Channel Islands/IOM are separate, though not sovereign jurisdictions from the UK. Hence their inhabitants don't pay into UKHE via their taxes, and so they don't receive the subsidy that UK/EU students do.

Jersey is closer to France. Why isn't it considered French instead of being part of the United Kingdom.

More than mere geography determines these things y'know :wink:

Reply 5234

harr

MrShifty

It kinda was, you stated you don't have sympathy for those paying higher fees and contrasted it with the amount "you're" charged - neglecting to mention that the vast bulk of that amount is carried by your government rather than you personally, whereas the burden of higher fees is placed entirely on students themselves.

Sorry, I misunderstood. None of that fee is paid by the Jersey government. I think they pay something on top of that though (my fees are about £2500 lower than international fees).

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 5235

Hedgeman49

Why is everyone in this thread from the ******* Channel Islands? I only just realised that.

Reply 5236

MrShifty

harr

Sorry, I misunderstood. None of that fee is paid by the Jersey government. I think they pay something on top of that though (my fees are about £2500 lower than international fees).

Seriously?! If so my apologies as it sounds like it was my mistake. I thought that your figure was fees + college fees and that Jersey paid all but £1500 of the former, leaving "only" about five to six thousand being paid by the individual student.

That's how it works with the IOM grants system at least (they used to automatically pay the full fees, but not sure if they ask for a contribution now). Are there some extra costs I'm missing out, or has Jersey seriously curtailed its student awards/moved to a means tested system?

Reply 5237

Meteorshower

Waaaay for being Scottish :biggrin:

Reply 5238

.matt

If/when the fees are raised, would it really make that much of a difference if they were still entirely covered by the loan? It'd just take more years to pay off the debt, which whilst annoying, wouldn't cause anyone to be cast into immediate poverty or anything. The 'poor' will presumably still have an obscene amount of money spunked at them for maintenance, the richest will still be fine and those in between will still be screwed over.

I remember reading something about higher interest rates as well (scaling with income) - do they apply to all graduates, or just those who enter university after the regulations come into place?

Also, do employers seriously value <mickey mouse degree> from <random ex-poly> more than three years of relevant experience working? Quite a lot of people seem to be doing degrees for the 'university lifestyle', or because it's presumed that employers value all candidates with degrees of any kind over those without. Admittedly I'm not quite sure why I'm doing a maths degree, but still :p:

Reply 5239

Simplicity

.matt

Also, do employers seriously value <mickey mouse degree> from <random ex-poly> more than three years of relevant experience working? Quite a lot of people seem to be doing degrees for the 'university lifestyle', or because it's presumed that employers value all candidates with degrees of any kind over those without. Admittedly I'm not quite sure why I'm doing a maths degree, but still