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    That's good to hear thanks for telling me
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    (Original post by NORAD)
    .
    I understand that you want to be able to support Israel, however their actions need to be looked at in terms of their long term plans, and long before the Balfour Declaration of 1947 up until today. NOT the pieces of propaganda we are exposed to.
    1. Genocide, ethnic cleansing whatever you want to call it is permitted and neccessary to fulfill the Israeli agenda for the 'complete state of 'israel'. From Israel's first PM Ben Gurions " it would be better to expel the Arabs" to enable a homogenous jewish state. Un Geneva's plans for the partition were only a short term plan. At this time there was 52,000 jews and 320,000 native Palestinians. Up until it's socio political motives of today.
    2. Sheikh Yassin was funded and supported under the Israeli 'shin Bet plans' as a measure to counter the support for Fatah and weaken the PLO.
    3. You should consider accessing 'Whole' stories independently obtained. However in the uk alone this is incredibly difficult.
    4. Uk Media in any form is not independent nor gives balanced viewpoints "pinewood Shepperton ltd." owns the two production studios in Britain and the largest one in Europe". In charge is Michael Grade, nephew of Lewis Grade who also founded itv, former chief executive of C4 and previous director of Programmes at BBC. Is now the Executive Chairman of Pinewood Shepperton. Film and media production hasn't been independent since 1930s. Newspapers are also similarly owned by Murdoch, News international and the telegraph group.
    5. israel has broken and vetoed 65 peace agreements and UN sanctions. Iraq broke 2 and we invaded,
    Some of this is unintelligible. Some is simply wrong. Some is nutjob conspiracies.

    Out of interest, how old are you?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Some of this is unintelligible. Some is simply wrong. Some is nutjob conspiracies.

    Out of interest, how old are you?
    its funny how anyone that opposes the mainstream media common 'narrative' they are called a conspiracy theorist, or me being a nut job! Where did you hear that term? ..... The TV? I think almost everything we are told needs to be viewed with an open mind, rationality, research the information. I have given to you some information yet you dismiss it by describing it as 'unintelligible', 'wrong' or a 'nut job'. Neither terms actually address the information I have referred you to. Maybe it's easier for you to choose to shield yourself from accessing the wider information where everything can be condensed to a small media sound bite! I understand that seeking the 'truth' and going against the normal sway carries the 'fear' of being margianalised as a conspiracy theorist.
    so you suggest that all men in power are capable of telling the truth and not committing criminal activities?. ( small example here: the same Uk media told us for over 40 years that Jimmy Saville was a phillanthropist, yet what the BBC knew of his sick motivations and even covered up for him until it came out publicly )
    As Abraham Lincoln said: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."
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    (Original post by NORAD)
    its funny how anyone that opposes the mainstream media common 'narrative' they are called a conspiracy theorist, or me being a nut job! Where did you hear that term? ..... The TV? I think almost everything we are told needs to be viewed with an open mind, rationality, research the information. I have given to you some information yet you dismiss it by describing it as 'unintelligible', 'wrong' or a 'nut job'. Neither terms actually address the information I have referred you to. Maybe it's easier for you to choose to shield yourself from accessing the wider information where everything can be condensed to a small media sound bite! I understand that seeking the 'truth' and going against the normal sway carries the 'fear' of being margianalised as a conspiracy theorist.
    so you suggest that all men in power are capable of telling the truth and not committing criminal activities?. ( small example here: the same Uk media told us for over 40 years that Jimmy Saville was a phillanthropist, yet what the BBC knew of his sick motivations and even covered up for him until it came out publicly )
    As Abraham Lincoln said: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."
    Taking Lincoln's quote I think you are part of the "some of the people".
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I've taken the liberty of numbering your statements to respond to.

    (1) It is absolutely not genocide. Either you know nothing about what is going on, nothing about genocide or you are deliberately lying. Which is it?

    (2) Hamas are not the only group firing rockets from Gaza but we may as well lump them all together for all the difference it makes. Also on (2) Sheik Yassin founded Hamas in 1988 or so. Not created by Israel - I think you may need a tin foil hat.

    (3) Either you do not watch TV, listen to the radio or read newspapers; or you're lying. Which is it?

    (4) Again not true: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28715052 Are you ignorant or lying? Which is it?

    (5) Not genocide and have you not noticed negotiations in Egypt are going on and have been going on for a while now?

    In short, you are either ignorant or lying. Please tell us which is it. Thanks.
    Lets have a look at the statistics // most recent one i've found!
    Death toll in Gaza - 1,915 ( 452 children)
    Death toll in Israel - 67 including 3 civillians.


    How can you not conclude from that, that this is nothing other than sheer genocide. With the food blockade, Israeli Defence Minister saying the people of Gaza are being put on a diet? Other comments such as "the Palestinian people will visit the holocaust". Did you even take the time to watch my counter-argument that I posted, or can you not bare to hear the facts of this cruel un-humanitarian conflict. Attacks are all deliberate, the coordinates giving SEVENTEEN times for a childrens hospital. What about the footage of the three children playing football on the beach and targeted? Israels drone technology is enough to clearly identify whether the age of a target and whether they are deemed a threat. Not to mention the footage of IDF soldiers pranking a hotel in Gaza saying it would be bombed and other footage laughing about killing Palestinians wile they were young. Are the Israeli people really in threat? The pictures of the Israeli people on the mountains with deck chairs watching the drones fire into the Gaza strip as means of entertainment wile the people of Gaza live in absolute fear would suggest otherwise. If it wasn't for the protecting hand (USA) then there would be sheer outcry. We all know why the USA are protecting Israel. What about BBC removing middle east correspondent Jeremy Bowen because he quite simply said he never seen any evidence of hamas using people as shields. Or would you claim that is a conspiracy theory

    Are your referring the negotiations between Israel and Egypt... were Hamas were NOT EVEN CONSULTED?
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    (Original post by TSR1995)
    Lets have a look at the statistics // most recent one i've found!
    Death toll in Gaza - 1,915 ( 452 children)
    Death toll in Israel - 67 including 3 civillians.


    How can you not conclude from that, that this is nothing other than sheer genocide. With the food blockade, Israeli Defence Minister saying the people of Gaza are being put on a diet? Other comments such as "the Palestinian people will visit the holocaust". Did you even take the time to watch my counter-argument that I posted, or can you not bare to hear the facts of this cruel un-humanitarian conflict. Attacks are all deliberate, the coordinates giving SEVENTEEN times for a childrens hospital. What about the footage of the three children playing football on the beach and targeted? Israels drone technology is enough to clearly identify whether the age of a target and whether they are deemed a threat. Not to mention the footage of IDF soldiers pranking a hotel in Gaza saying it would be bombed and other footage laughing about killing Palestinians wile they were young. Are the Israeli people really in threat? The pictures of the Israeli people on the mountains with deck chairs watching the drones fire into the Gaza strip as means of entertainment wile the people of Gaza live in absolute fear would suggest otherwise. If it wasn't for the protecting hand (USA) then there would be sheer outcry. We all know why the USA are protecting Israel. What about BBC removing middle east correspondent Jeremy Bowen because he quite simply said he never seen any evidence of hamas using people as shields. Or would you claim that is a conspiracy theory

    Are your referring the negotiations between Israel and Egypt... were Hamas were NOT EVEN CONSULTED?
    Let's consider your statistics for a moment and try and determine whether they support the hypothesis that Israel is trying to kill children. Currently, the proportion of people in Gaza under the age of 14 is about 45%. The proportion of Gazans killed in recent fighting under the age of 14 is 16% (see http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/wo...lict.html?_r=0). If Israel were randomly firing rockets you would expect that about 45% of the dead would be under the age of 14 but in fact it is a third of that. That implies that not only is Israel NOT targeting children but it is also taking care NOT to hit children.

    Of course, you will ignore this in some way.

    As for genocide. Genocide has a specific meaning that requires the alleged perpetrator to have killed a significant proportion of the population. The current population of Gaza is 1.8 million. 2,000 from that is about one tenth of one percent. Speaking from a statistical point of view that is insignificant. Therefore the term "genocide" absolutely does not apply.

    Again, I assume you will ignore this in some way.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Let's consider your statistics for a moment and try and determine whether they support the hypothesis that Israel is trying to kill children. Currently, the proportion of people in Gaza under the age of 14 is about 45%. The proportion of Gazans killed in recent fighting under the age of 14 is 16% (see http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/wo...lict.html?_r=0). If Israel were randomly firing rockets you would expect that about 45% of the dead would be under the age of 14 but in fact it is a third of that. That implies that not only is Israel NOT targeting children but it is also taking care NOT to hit children.

    Of course, you will ignore this in some way.

    As for genocide. Genocide has a specific meaning that requires the alleged perpetrator to have killed a significant proportion of the population. The current population of Gaza is 1.8 million. 2,000 from that is about one tenth of one percent. Speaking from a statistical point of view that is insignificant. Therefore the term "genocide" absolutely does not apply.

    Again, I assume you will ignore this in some way.
    These points your throwing against me are absolutely laughable. Do you reside in Israel may i ask? Where is this favouritism coming from? I have two Jewish friends from Seattle who actively attend the rallys in Washington. Forget about how many people have died in the recent conflicts, this is happening every two years. What about 2012, 2008?

    Israeli attacks, whether it be on schools, children or innocent women and men are deliberate. That is fact. SEVENTEEN TIMES the coordinates were giving for an attack on a school. What about the actual footage from the drone of the children playing on the beach? Have you seen the footage of the child being held by his dad and the child being shot in the head by an Israeli sniper? Have you viewed all the footage thats emerged over the last 4-5 weeks?

    Your pitiful my friend. Im not anti-Semitic, im not anti-Israeli, im pro human rights. What's happening in Gaza is complete slaughter and if you knew the intensity between the Palestinian/Israeli divide you would know exactly why its genocide. The truth of the matter is that Israel do not care to preserve Palestinian life and that can also be said for Hamas and other guerilla resistance groups in Gaza. You and I both know the Israeli people are not in any danger. A state army against a small factions using guerilla warfare? Any rockets they shot up are took down anyway. The vast majority of the world know who the real oppressed side are and thats why the world stands with Gaza.
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    (Original post by TSR1995)
    These points your throwing against me are absolutely laughable. Do you reside in Israel may i ask? Where is this favouritism coming from? I have two Jewish friends from Seattle who actively attend the rallys in Washington. Forget about how many people have died in the recent conflicts, this is happening every two years. What about 2012, 2008?

    Israeli attacks, whether it be on schools, children are deliberate. That is fact. SEVENTEEN TIMES the coordinates were giving for an attack on a school. What about the actual footage from the drone of the children playing on the beach? Have you seen the footage of the child being held by his dad and the child being shot in the head by an Israeli sniper? Have you viewed all the footage thats emerged over the last 4-5 weeks?

    Your pitiful my friend. Im not anti-Semitic, im not anti-Israeli, im pro human rights. What's happening in Gaza is complete slaughter and if you knew the intensity between the Palestinian/Israeli divide you would know exactly why its genocide. The truth of the matter is that Israel do not care to preserve Palestinian life and that can also be said for Hamas and other guerilla resistance groups in Gaza. You and I both know the Israeli people are not in any danger. A state army against a small factions using guerilla warfare? Any rockets they shot up are took down anyway. The vast majority of the world know who the real oppressed side are and thats why the world still with Gaza.
    Hey look. I was right. You ignored the facts as laid out in front of you. Do you disagree with them? Do you have a counter argument?

    Who am I kidding? Of course you don't.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Hey look. I was right. You ignored the facts as laid out in front of you. Do you disagree with them? Do you have a counter argument?

    Who am I kidding? Of course you don't.
    Look its like your ignoring the facts and arguments im presenting because your so ashamed of the brutal truth and your retreating to an absolutely ridiculous argument which lacks any form of logic, proper relevance or depth.

    Heres my counter arguments, but obviously you wouldn't give a bit of truth the time of the day. You've been annihilated a few times on this thread by others, give up. You clearly can't identify the difference between right and wrong.

    Jon Snow // Channel 4 (re your argument on average age//population)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL9lYxKSZ9w
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    UniOfLife obviously has no intention of backing down, he will continue to support those filthy soldiers no matter what they do and when you counter his argument he will counter back with something that wasn't related to your counter argument and then call you a lier.
    Before he says they aren't filthy read this article that explains exactly how filthy they are: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...aeces-graffiti

    Remember these are the houses of those "Civilian" that the Israelis care so much about.
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    Hamas kills 160 children in building of terror tunnels

    Disgusting. They have no respect for human life, particularly Palestinian life.

    All this while Khaled Mashal luxuriates in mansions in Qatar, stuffing his face with delicacies and spending time with Western women.
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    'H/t- the Jerusalem post.'

    I wouldn't believe things so readily.
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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    'H/t- the Jerusalem post.'

    I wouldn't believe things so readily.
    Unless you have evidence that contradicts it, then you're clearly just showing you don't want to believe it.

    It is odd that you find it hard to believe your beloved Hamas would ever do something violent or exploitative. I mean, this is an organisation whose thugs ride through the streets on motorbikes, firing guns and dragging dead bodies behind

    By the way, I linked to something from Tabletmag which linked to a thinktank study. What are your objections to the thinktank study? What is this Jpost thing you're talking about?

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    (Original post by TSR1995)
    Your pitiful my friend. Im not anti-Semitic, im not anti-Israeli
    What are you talking about? UniOfLife raised the issue of whether this is genocide (which it clearly is not. 10,000 Palestinians in 50 years is no genocide, such a claim makes a mockery of actual genocides like Rwanda, or the Holocaust) and you go off into a speech about not being anti-semitic
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    (Original post by TSR1995)
    Heres my counter arguments
    That's not an argument, that's a link to a youtube video.

    but obviously you wouldn't give a bit of truth the time of the
    day. You've been annihilated a few times on this thread by others, give up.
    If you're tired of this debate, then why don't you go away? Sheesh

    You clearly can't identify the difference between right and wrong.
    That should read as, "How dare you have a different opinion to me on this subject? If you don't believe as I do on this subject, you are a bad person".

    Jon Snow // Channel 4 (re your argument on average age//population)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ
    Err, that doesn't even address the issue of the claims of the deaths being "indiscriminate" when the age distribution clearly shows that men aged 20-29 are by far the largest group being killed. If it were indiscriminate, then axiomatically children would be represented far more, where as children are actually the most under-represented group in Gaza deaths so far.

    You haven't actually addressed what he said, and if you fail to we will know you have no answer.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    You haven't actually addressed what he said, and if you fail to we will know you have no answer.
    They haven't and they won't because they can't. It's simple.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    They haven't and they won't because they can't. It's simple.
    Indeed. Instead of giving counter-arguments, the tendency is just to shriek "Hasbara!". You can tell that they're worried they're losing the argument when they do that

    Your point about the proportions of the "civilian" death toll was very relevant, as was the issue you raised of the laughable claim that this is a genocide (some genocide; 10,000 Palestinians in 50 years. And given that the way Palestinians are treated depends entirely on whether they live in Israel, where they have full civil rights, or in Gaza/WB, it axiomatically cannot be a genocide).
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    They haven't and they won't because they can't. It's simple.
    You haven't replied to me above, is it because you can't counter against it? Lol like someone said above, you've been crushed in arguments on this thread before and then you stop replying.

    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    :lol: I'm honoured, they say imitation is the sincerest form flattery. Can't come up with anything of your own, so you literally just copy and paste what I say and say it back to me. Love it, truly.
    What point have you made to counter against my argument?
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    (Original post by mxcvii)
    What point have you made to counter against my argument?
    You haven't made an argument, you simply called people filthy and posted a link.

    Just a friendly tip, that's not an argument.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    You haven't made an argument, you simply called people filthy and posted a link.
    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Just a friendly tip, that's not an argument. You might struggle a bit academically if you think it is


    Correction kid, I called them filthy and then posted a link to prove my answer.
    Then your the one that ignored the link and called me a 12 year old for calling those soldiers filthy and pointing out how UniOfLife calls everyone a lier. If you want to argue then read that article and prove that they're not filthy.
 
 
 
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