Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Midlander
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#5241
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#5241
(Original post by Choo.choo)
Over £1trillion of debt is not bankruptcy? What would you call it then? The UK government has always been in debt. It was in debt before North Sea oil, and was still in debt after oil revenues were added.
The UK government has not been declared bankrupt and has not been in danger of defaulting like the USA has-ergo it is not bankrupt.

There is also far more to our economy than oil. Far more.


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Choo.choo
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#5242
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#5242
(Original post by Midlander)
The UK government has not been declared bankrupt and has not been in danger of defaulting like the USA has-ergo it is not bankrupt.

There is also far more to our economy than oil. Far more.

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That is true. The UK Government has not defaulted on its debts.
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Midlander
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#5243
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#5243
(Original post by Choo.choo)
It really annoys me that Scots falsely link independence to Salmond and the SNP. What about voting out the SNP in an independent Scotland? Scottish representation is about 8 or 9%, as there are 650 MP's in Westminster, but only 59 Scottish. So Scottish MP's are in a tiny minority.
The SNP have openly accused the unionist parties of not having Scottish interests at heart. You can therefore conclude that they think they are the only party that would be elected.


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Choo.choo
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#5244
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#5244
I should add that the UK Government don't care that the oil money is being spent; just as long as the Scots don't get their hands on it, and they will lose this when Scots get independence. No more oil tax receipts for London.
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Choo.choo
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#5245
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#5245
(Original post by Midlander)
The SNP have openly accused the unionist parties of not having Scottish interests at heart. You can therefore conclude that they think they are the only party that would be elected.


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They don't have Scotland's interests at heart. Scotland is a socialist country; England isn't. You haven't told me why Scotland shouldn't be independent.
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cowsforsale
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#5246
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#5246
(Original post by Choo.choo)
It really annoys me that Scots falsely link independence to Salmond and the SNP. What about voting out the SNP in an independent Scotland? Scottish representation is about 8 or 9%, as there are 650 MP's in Westminster, but only 59 Scottish. So Scottish MP's are in a tiny minority.
Lol, Personally I find how the unionists are intent on shutting down the debate infuriating. Trivial discussion on economic minutae, mobile phone tariffs, passports, border controls, EU veto nonsense, tuition fees, currency, nato, trident... too wee too poor....... Demonise personalities and reduce it to namecalling in order to turn the electorate off. They know they cant persuade the "dont knows" so the tactic is to keep them as "dont knows" . Otherwise we would have had a "White Paper" alternative from Better Together.

Do you want to be part of Cameron's Big Society, increasingly xenophobic, increasingly anti-europe and increasingly idealogical in it's pursuit of the Elitist social structure. Or do you want to be part of something different. This vote isnt about what is good for us right now, its about what kind of society we want for our children and grandchildren.
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#5247
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#5247
(Original post by Choo.choo)
And you believe them? Gordon Brown did not let Scotland have any more devolved powers when he was PM. I just don't believe what Westminster parties say any more. It is all lies to get us to stay in the union. It is time for Scotland to stand on its own two feet.
Lol, whilst using the £ and having no say on its interest rates? Yeh, that is really standing on its own 2 feet :rolleyes:
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FredOrJohn
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#5248
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#5248
(Original post by Midlander)
The UK government has not been declared bankrupt and has not been in danger of defaulting like the USA has-ergo it is not bankrupt.

There is also far more to our economy than oil. Far more.
Yes debt works like this....

Suppose you were in debt for £1 ....and your economy was worth £1.5
It would seem bad.

But if that £1 was not payable for 10 years and by then your economy was worth £30 then that £1 is easy to finance.

If the pay back date is reasonably long in the future, and your growth rate is positive debt should be self financing. Were it goes horribly off the rails is if you have to pay back immediately (like Spain had to) and you have little or no growth.
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#5249
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#5249
(Original post by cowsforsale)
Lol, Personally I find how the unionists are intent on shutting down the debate. Trivial discussion on mobile phone tariffs, economic minutae, passports, border controls, EU and veto nonsense, tuition fees.. Demonise personalities and reduce it to namecalling in order to turn the electorate off. They know they cant persuade the "dont knows" so the tactic is to keep them as "dont knows" otherwise we would have had a "White Paper" alternative from Better Together.

Do you want to be part of Cameron's Big Society, increasingly xenophobix, increasingly anti-europe and increasingly idealogical in it's pursuit of the Elitist social structure. Or do you want to be part of something different. This vote isnt about what is good for us right now, its about what kind of society we want for our children and grandchildren.
Yes, those evil torries being anti-EU and pro democracy! How dare they! An independent Scotland can be rules by Brussels if you would like and not even have a boarder, why not let everyone in the world in, from USA, the EU, Africa, Asia, let them all in!

Meanwhile the rest of the UK can survive fine with comparable social cohesion and low crime rates, enoy!
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Choo.choo
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#5250
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#5250
(Original post by cowsforsale)
Lol, Personally I find how the unionists are intent on shutting down the debate. Trivial discussion on mobile phone tariffs, economic minutae, passports, border controls, EU and veto nonsense, tuition fees, currency, nato, trident... too wee too poor....... Demonise personalities and reduce it to namecalling in order to turn the electorate off. They know they cant persuade the "dont knows" so the tactic is to keep them as "dont knows" otherwise we would have had a "White Paper" alternative from Better Together.

Do you want to be part of Cameron's Big Society, increasingly xenophobix, increasingly anti-europe and increasingly idealogical in it's pursuit of the Elitist social structure. Or do you want to be part of something different. This vote isnt about what is good for us right now, its about what kind of society we want for our children and grandchildren.
I know. I am voting yes. I hate the union. Good riddance to the union when Scots vote to be independent.
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CDavidson24
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#5251
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#5251
(Original post by Joeman560)
It's bad. Nothing good will come of it, especially for Scotland. Also I dislike Alex Salmond.

Salmonds campaign is based on nothing but lies and fudged figures, he hates England so much he would destroy his own country to be away from it. He is openly racist and gets away with it and even encourages racism in his supporters.
Well, that's a load of bull. I'm undecided how I'm going to vote, the argument that may make me vote for independence is 'Why should a Tory government that wasn't voted in by Scots, rule Scotland?'. I'm not a fan of Salmond either, he's a sleekit, smug politician. I don't think he's racist though and most SNP voters are not racist either.
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cowsforsale
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#5252
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#5252


Nicola question: "Give me three specific examples of welfare cuts that Ed Miliband will reverse?"

Anas answer?: No answer

Nicola question: "Will you reverse the £250m cut to disabled benefits?"

Anas answer?: No answer.

Nicola question: "What's Labour's policy on the savings credit for low income pensioners?"

Anas answer: No answer.

Nicola: "The fact is - you won't reverse ANY of these Tory welfare cuts."

Nicola question: "What universal benefits will be protected by Labour?"

Anas answer: No answer.

Nicola question: "Free prescriptions - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer.

Nicola question: "Tuition fees - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer

Nicola question: "Free personal care - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer

Nicola Question: "I'll give you another chance- free prescriptions, Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer

Nicola: "Free tuition - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer, but effectively a no.

Nicola: "Free tuition - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer

Nicola: "I don't understand how you came here tonight defending the right of the Tories to impose welfare cuts on Scotland ... You haven't answered a single question you've been asked."

Well, Anas Sarwar earlier in the programme had rather rashly - and unilaterally - committed UK Labour to reversing the Bedroom Tax, something his leader, Ed Miliband, has so far refused to do, and something that Johann Lamont, Scottish 'leader' has also avoided to date. Doubtless he's had his arse kicked on that by London Labour and the hapless, beleaguered Ed Miliband.

lol..
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Choo.choo
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#5253
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#5253
(Original post by Yi-Ge-Ningderen)
Lol, whilst using the £ and having no say on its interest rates? Yeh, that is really standing on its own 2 feet :rolleyes:
I actually don't agree with the SNP on that. But I accept their arguments for a currency union. The only thing I don't like is being tied to the Bank of England. But you can't have it both ways.
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FinalMH
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#5254
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#5254
(Original post by Choo.choo)
And you believe them? Gordon Brown did not let Scotland have any more devolved powers when he was PM. I just don't believe what Westminster parties say any more. It is all lies to get us to stay in the union. It is time for Scotland to stand on its own two feet.
:confused: I don't really care what a Yes vote believers or not lol (agree to disagree)The fact you're voting yes says you don't care about what the UK government say...
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Quady
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#5255
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#5255
(Original post by Choo.choo)
Those countries don't spend money they don't have. They avoided the financial crisis.
ffs, I found the debt levels you said that don't exist.

Can you now find their public surplus'? If not I'll have to find out their deficits and its a bore finding info out for you.
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#5256
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#5256
(Original post by Choo.choo)
I actually don't agree with the SNP on that. But I accept their arguments for a currency union. The only thing I don't like is being tied to the Bank of England. But you can't have it both ways.

Then the country would not be standing on its own feet, if you want independence do it properly, otherwise its like a child moving away from th house of mum and dad, saying how brave and independent the yare and then calling home every weekend asking for money.
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Choo.choo
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#5257
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#5257
(Original post by Yi-Ge-Ningderen)
Yes, those evil torries being anti-EU and pro democracy! How dare they! An independent Scotland can be rules by Brussels if you would like and not even have a boarder, why not let everyone in the world in, from USA, the EU, Africa, Asia, let them all in!

Meanwhile the rest of the UK can survive fine with comparable social cohesion and low crime rates, enoy!
Disagree with that. An independent Scotland will enjoy that; not the rest of the UK post-independence.
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Choo.choo
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#5258
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#5258
(Original post by Quady)
ffs, I found the debt levels you said that don't exist.

Can you now find their public surplus'? If not I'll have to find out their deficits and its a bore finding info out for you.
They survived the financial crisis. End of.
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#5259
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#5259
(Original post by Choo.choo)
Disagree with that. An independent Scotland will enjoy that; not the rest of the UK post-independence.
You think Scotland would be like that with a population of 50 million ? If 20 million or more Africans and Asians move there?
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#5260
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#5260
What do you mean by "survive", who didn't survive? No country has vanished of the face of the Earth.
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