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    (Original post by United1892)
    Not really there are many right wing people who are pro-immigration to drive down wages.
    Inflation works for that.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Not really they'll happily describe all people on benefits as scroungers.
    He seemed very sympathetic to the unemployed actually, then when he got into power something changed.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    And the only people who oppose it are entitled or bitter.
    Correction, entitled or bitter right-wingers who take every opportunity to decry the very un-Socialist Obama as a socialist for his support of a moderately (but undeniably) left-wing policy.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Inflation works for that.
    A lot of right wing people don't like inflation.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    He seemed very sympathetic to the unemployed actually, then when he got into power something changed.
    you were conned mate.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    France doesn't have nationalised healthcare, it has healthcare that is mostly free at the point of use, but mostly provided by the private sector. Germany's model is based round what seem to be essentially health insurance co-operatives, with a mixture of public and private hospitals. These systems are no worse than what we have in the UK.
    i know... And that I would include in 'some for of it'
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    (Original post by United1892)
    A lot of right wing people don't like inflation.
    A lot of right wing people don't like immigration

    (Original post by United1892)
    you were conned mate.
    Nah not at all, I think that Cameron's a little too liberal for his party, although it got them elected so good work I suppose.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    So you are a monarchist? I repeat RayApparentlyhow does it feel to have a Tory in your party and one who doesn't support your party's constitutional stance on the monarchy?
    My interpretation of James' comments do not indicate Toryism or monarchism. Especially considering how James has voted in internal polls on the subject of the monarchy.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    He seemed very sympathetic to the unemployed actually, then when he got into power something changed.
    He is a very deceptive character. He says one thing and does another. He has broke in excess of 100 policies with a rate of a broken promise in every 2 weeks.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    A lot of right wing people don't like immigration
    true.

    Nah not at all, I think that Cameron's a little too liberal for his party, although it got them elected so good work I suppose.
    Not really, he believes every word he says now but the consensus on the matter has swung so he says it. If you want a liberal tory look at MacMillan, prefer him to Blair if I'm honest.
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    (Original post by BigItch)
    He is a very deceptive character. He says one thing and does another. He has broke in excess of 100 policies with a rate of a broken promise in every 2 weeks.
    *His party

    I don't know if you know but David Cameron lost one of his children and another is constantly in and out of hospital quite disabled. He is a very good PR man and it's a credit to him that his past and his kids were never in the spotlight or a major part of any campaign, I think that when he talks of the NHS and social care and everything like that, he genuinely means it.

    Not that I agree with him on policy or economically, but I do somewhat respect him.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    true.



    Not really, he believes every word he says now but the consensus on the matter has swung so he says it. If you want a liberal tory look at MacMillan, prefer him to Blair if I'm honest.
    SuperMac's the best tory there was, and there have been quite a few good ones.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    *His party

    I don't know if you know but David Cameron lost one of his children and another is constantly in and out of hospital quite disabled. He is a very good PR man and it's a credit to him that his past and his kids were never in the spotlight or a major part of any campaign, I think that when he talks of the NHS and social care and everything like that, he genuinely means it.

    Not that I agree with him on policy or economically, but I do somewhat respect him.
    http://www2.labour.org.uk/protecting-the-nhs-budget

    I know there may have been changes since , but he lies all too much and gets away with it.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    My interpretation of James' comments do not indicate Toryism or monarchism. Especially considering how James has voted in internal polls on the subject of the monarchy.
    That's interesting. Though not surprising. James does flip flop a lot.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    That's interesting. Though not surprising. James does flip flop a lot.
    My political beliefs haven't changed ever in my life. My economic beliefs have slightly. I don't know when I have ever not been a socialist.

    PetrosAC Remember The Neo-Communist Republic of New Greenland?
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)



    My political beliefs haven't changed ever in my life. My economic beliefs have slightly. I don't know when I have ever not been a socialist.

    PetrosAC Remember The Neo-Communist Republic of New Greenland?
    But previously you have stated you believed that the monarchy shouldn't be done away with, now you say it should.

    Also, have you alwYs believed that the Tories are center left?
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Yet having a large public sector is seen as left, having a relatively high welfare bill is seen as left, we have immigration in the hundreds of thousands and that's pretty left, we have a government terrified of putting boots on the ground and can therefore be seen as left, corporations still pay at least 20% tax on profits so left again.
    Okay then, let's compare things to the US
    The federal budget for 2015 has a requested $3.9tn spending which is over 20% GDP, that's merely the federal. Now let's take Texas' budget for a state budget, and it's at the low end per capita, if it's per capita spending were spread across the whole country that would be an extra ~1.2tn, so they would be getting on for 30%. If, however, we take one of the higher per capita spending, namely New Mexico, and we get it into the mid 30s, similar to our own. But let's not settle for estimates, the total US budget stands at $6.2tn, or 35% GDP, not far behind our own budget.

    On immigration, let's look at social attitude, not what the actual figures are since we have little control over those. Three in ever four Britons want lower net migration, over 50% want a very significant decrease, with 18% not wanting any change and only 3% believing it should be higher. Next consider the impact, economically, 52% believe that the levels of immigration are bad, 40% of which say very bad, only 30% think that it is good and only one in six think it to be very good; culturally, a similar story, 48% see it as bad, this time nearly half are saying very bad, while only 34% think it good and again, a significant minority, not even a quarter of them.

    You say we have a government terrified of putting boots on the ground, not exactly, we have a government that doesn't want to annoy the people and want to put boots on the ground, and one that wants to maintain high spending (even though it may be through dodgy accounting) given that we have just spent 14 years in the Middle East, killing hundreds of our boys, leaving the place in a worse state than we found it, there is generally little interest in even more intervention in the ME.

    And once again, corporation tax, one of the lowest in the world, joint 51st and dropping, and half of the US

    So by these measures, we seem to be at least as right wing as America, we have similar public spending, similar net migration per capita, although ours is much easier to reign in and there is a massive call to do so, we have lower corporation tax and we are just as unwilling to put boots on the ground. But let's look at the UK vs US budget breakdown as a percentage of GDP they spend almost as much as a percentage of GDP on Pensions, about the same on Healthcare, their welfare breakdown is difficult to compare, overall, we spend twice as much on welfare as a percentage of GDP, but break it down, they spend twice as much on Family and Children and over 10 times as much on Unemployment, but it most of our spending goes on "Social Protection" which the US spends nothing on, so you get a difficult comparison with the breakdown.

    So we are left wing and the US is right wing, but by your metrics we are just as right wing as them?

    #logic

    Or, more relaistic, #noresearch

    TL;DR
    As is often the case, speaking out of your arse.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    SuperMac's the best tory there was, and there have been quite a few good ones.
    I like Goldsmith out of the ones there are at the moment, Rab Butler was a good one too.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    A lot of right wing people don't like inflation.
    It isn't sane to oppose inflation, inflation is a brilliant way to cut your wages bill. Generally, people are more willing to take a real terms wage cut than a nominal one, i.e. you can much more easily get away with 1pc wage growth with 2pc inflation than a 1pc cut and zero inflation with the net effect being the same, give or take something like a hundredth of a pc.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It isn't sane to oppose inflation, inflation is a brilliant way to cut your wages bill. Generally, people are more willing to take a real terms wage cut than a nominal one, i.e. you can much more easily get away with 1pc wage growth with 2pc inflation than a 1pc cut and zero inflation with the net effect being the same, give or take something like a hundredth of a pc.
    Maybe some people don't want to cut the wages of workers.
 
 
 
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