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    (Original post by xXxBaby-BooxXx)
    I've been told dermatology consists of "do a biopsy and then give steroids" and also "describe what you see in Latin and prescribe steroids" :dontknow:
    So this is why it's been described as one of the most cushy specialties!
    Poor dermatods, sound like they're the new surgeons for bearing the brunt of medical jokes
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    (Original post by xXxBaby-BooxXx)
    I've been told dermatology consists of "do a biopsy and then give steroids" and also "describe what you see in Latin and prescribe steroids" :dontknow:
    Ironically unless they are erythrodermic!
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    (Original post by Wangers)
    Your love of orthopaedics?

    You keeping well?
    Ha. Yeh I'm good thanks, enjoying my first medicine free summer in four years! Quietly terrified about the prospect of iBSc. You? Which degree did you pick in the end?
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    Oh god, if i ever end up in a situation like this...

    http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2Ec3T0...spital-in-july
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Because an assumption was made that what was being discussed was somehow beyond the level of all/most medical students and medical schools.
    Certainly beyond the level of Barts 1st year, I'm not ashamed to say it. Especially the molecular level stuff.
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    Certainly beyond the level of Barts 1st year, I'm not ashamed to say it. Especially the molecular level stuff.
    Some of it must have been covered, in the first two years?
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    Certainly beyond the level of Barts 1st year, I'm not ashamed to say it. Especially the molecular level stuff.
    Or a second year tbh (or maybe I just chose not to learn it in that much detail). Pretty sure it's the former though. FFCrusader will correct me if I'm wrong though.

    See what I mean when I say our CVS/Resp Physiology has loads of gaps on the whole...I suppose they had to make room for all the reflective writing we have to do all year round. :nothing:
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    (Original post by Medicine Man)
    Or a second year tbh (or maybe I just chose not to learn it in that much detail). Pretty sure it's the former though. FFCrusader will correct me if I'm wrong though.

    See what I mean when I say our CVS/Resp Physiology has loads of gaps on the whole...I suppose they had to make room for all the reflective writing we have to do all year round. :nothing:
    You think I learnt any of the detailed stuff? Have you met me? :p:

    I can barely retain the basic stuff :lolwut:

    I currently don't remember any medicine what so ever :sigh:
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Grab!




    Do you agree with this course structure for Keele? Specifically the Pre-Clin/Clin Divide?
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Do you agree with this course structure for Keele? Specifically the Pre-Clin/Clin Divide?
    Yes. First two years are preclinical: not all that much clinical contact (about 16 afternoon or morning placements throughout the phase). Final three years are clinical years.

    What a 'community based programme' is, I'm not sure. Sounds vague and bureaucratic to me.

    EDIT: What is that website?
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Yes. First two years are preclinical: not all that much clinical contact (about 16 afternoon or morning placements throughout the phase). Final three years are clinical years.

    What a 'community based programme' is, I'm not sure. Sounds vague and bureaucratic to me.

    EDIT: What is that website?
    Its the WHO Global Directory of Medical Schools. http://avicenna.ku.dk/database/medicine (From our perspective, the List of Medical Schools that the GMC can accept as valid institution for a Primary Medical Qualification)

    Its basically do they teach General Practice/community medicine specifically. Which all medical schools do, but only some have a specified emphasis.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Some of it must have been covered, in the first two years?
    'Some' of it is not good enough. I would have preferred being taught all of it, so that I didn't have to spend 12 hours a day teaching it myself, but that's another story. And I did not slack during my first two years.

    It's not like I am asking for a new method of teaching, this was the way things were done forever up until recently. If you can be arsed to look back through my old posts, I was militant pro-PBL and pro-prosection...looking back now at the huge gaps in my knowledge base, it was all total bo-lax. PBL especially is just teaching on the cheap. Hell, you don't even have to have someone in the field you are studying supervising! (Psychologist supervising O&G? Was like the blind leading the lame)
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    'Some' of it is not good enough. I would have preferred being taught all of it, so that I didn't have to spend 12 hours a day teaching it myself, but that's another story. And I did not slack during my first two years.

    It's not like I am asking for a new method of teaching, this was the way things were done forever up until recently. If you can be arsed to look back through my old posts, I was militant pro-PBL and pro-prosection...looking back now at the huge gaps in my knowledge base, it was all total bo-lax. PBL especially is just teaching on the cheap. Hell, you don't even have to have someone in the field you are studying supervising! (Psychologist supervising O&G? Was like the blind leading the lame)
    While Yes, PBL and Self-Directed learning do have their flaws.

    I don't think and entirely didactic lecture based programme is any better, while to the individual it would seem like more information was being delivered to them, they would not necessarily retain more anyway.

    Also, while yes the PBL sessions at Peninsula are how you describe, but PBL is not really for learning, its for consolidation. Rather than as you put it "the blind leading the lame" we have a series of lectures which give us the spectrum we need to cover and detailed life science sessions with anatomists, and other specialists for the detail.

    Which only really leaves bite sized gaps. (assuming you are on the ball in every session, and honestly after two hours of bombardment with information, the third hour is like throwing eggs at a wall, and hoping the wall would fall down)



    Even if you were delivered the information you would still have had to spend several hours learning it anyway. Delivery of information /= learning.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Its the WHO Global Directory of Medical Schools. http://avicenna.ku.dk/database/medicine (From our perspective, the List of Medical Schools that the GMC can accept as valid institution for a Primary Medical Qualification)

    Its basically do they teach General Practice/community medicine specifically. Which all medical schools do, but only some have a specified emphasis.
    the community based question is very strange. how many UK school's have said that they are?


    EDIT: to the above - i don't think its a justifable argument that just because more information is given it isn't retained, you retain as much as you want depending on how much you care about the specifics independent of how much you are given (with the obvious tasset that wherever you are you recall enough for your own examinations!).
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    (Original post by John Locke)
    the community based question is very strange. how many UK school's have said that they are?


    EDIT: to the above - i don't think its a justifable argument that just because more information is given it isn't retained, you retain as much as you want depending on how much you care about the specifics independent of how much you are given (with the obvious tasset that wherever you are you recall enough for your own examinations!).
    Only 11 actually answered the question.

    BSMS - No
    UEA -1-24%
    HYMS - 25-49%
    Keele - 1- 24%
    Leicester - NO
    Newcastle - No
    Nottingham - No
    Oxford - No
    Peninsula - 25-49%
    Soton - 1-24%
    Warwick - No

    EDIT: Agreed, therefore having more information delivered makes little difference.
    OK so I phrased that badly, I meant "they would not necessarily retain more")
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Only 11 actually answered the question.

    BSMS - No
    UEA -1-24%
    HYMS - 25-49%
    Keele - 1- 24%
    Leicester - NO
    Newcastle - No
    Nottingham - No
    Oxford - No
    Peninsula - 25-49%
    Soton - 1-24%
    Warwick - No
    Interesting which medical schools chose the highest % (25-49). I'm not sure how they are deciding what % their course is. For example are they including your PBL scenarios that are GPish based? or is there a large % of clinical placements in primary care? also 1-24% i wouldn't really say was particularly primary care focussed, surely almost all medical schools fit into that slot (i.e. all the 'no's!)?

    (Original post by carcinoma)
    EDIT: Agreed, therefore having more information delivered makes little difference.
    OK so I phrased that badly, I meant "they would not necessarily retain more")
    does that really follow? would it not be more appropriate to conclude that increased material only makes a significant difference to the people that are interested enough to retain it? i am tempted to put forward the argument that at least you have the choice if you are given lots of stuff but i think it's so readily accessible these days as long as you have a good general education if you are interested you can explore it on your own. the only real question that comes up then is if exposure to lots of information is useful even to the people who won't explore it specifically on their own due to interest which is hard to say.
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    (Original post by Dr. Hannibal Lecter)
    So this is why it's been described as one of the most cushy specialties!
    Poor dermatods, sound like they're the new surgeons for bearing the brunt of medical jokes
    One of the best specialities to pursue academia though.
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    (Original post by Dr. Hannibal Lecter)
    Oh god, if i ever end up in a situation like this...

    http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2Ec3T0...spital-in-july
    Same effect happens in the UK every August but it affects every team, even those that don't have house officers, therefore it's attributed to people changing jobs at every level.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)

    Also, while yes the PBL sessions at Peninsula are how you describe, but PBL is not really for learning, its for consolidation.


    Even if you were delivered the information you would still have had to spend several hours learning it anyway. Delivery of information /= learning.
    If PBL was for consolidation only, there would be no need for setting 'learning objectives' and debriefing at the next session.

    Your last quote doesn't make sense. Delivery of information is not learning, agreed, but facilitation of learning through explanation and expansion. The learning comes after you gain an understanding of it.

    Reading a textbook by yourself and trying to understand it, then being 'taught' by your peers who are at the same level of you sounds like some collective group therapy in alcoholics anonymous. Again, blind leading the lame.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Only 11 actually answered the question.

    BSMS - No
    UEA -1-24%
    HYMS - 25-49%
    Keele - 1- 24%
    Leicester - NO
    Newcastle - No
    Nottingham - No
    Oxford - No
    Peninsula - 25-49%
    Soton - 1-24%
    Warwick - No
    I understand what you're saying here, but with such a small sample size you can't assert much. I reckon less than 30% of my year would've been able to understand that passage. I don't think that's a bad thing either: I wouldn't look down on my doctor for now knowing it in such detail.

    (Original post by digitalis)
    If PBL was for consolidation only, there would be no need for setting 'learning objectives' and debriefing at the next session.
    But the learning objectives set are guided surely? They are here. Most groups come out with relatively similar sets of questions. I do most of my learning during the week when I'm doing the work for PBL. Not when I'm in the PBL sessions, and I suspect it's similar across the board.

    Reading a textbook by yourself and trying to understand it, then being 'taught' by your peers who are at the same level of you sounds like some collective group therapy in alcoholics anonymous. Again, blind leading the lame.
    But you're not supposed to be taught by your peers. You're supposed to have grasped much of it by yourself. PBL in that sense is to clear up any problems you've had with the week's learning.
 
 
 
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