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    (Original post by Chindits)
    She was quoting a 2002 statement made by a since deceased journalist.
    Source?

    (Original post by Chindits)
    She doesn't run Israel.
    She's a member of parliament, thus a member of the legislature; also somewhat forming or atleast influencing the executive, no?
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    no these are the borders of the original mandate for partition dicussed by UN, it was not implemented when UK terminated its mandate later. like i s aid im not going into whats a compicated point of history, jsut wanted to highlight the level of ignorance many people have on the background issues. the whole matter anyway becuase defunct when A israel declared itself a state and received support and then the other arab states then attempted to wipe it off the map.

    im not talking about sitting round a table discussing borders, becuase at this point, islamists will not allow that to happen. till islamsits are defeat that stage can never happen
    My mistake, for the record, here's the boarders after the 1948 war, what the colours mean should be fairly easy to work out without the key:

    That aside, while the Islamists won't allow it to happen, the Palestinians will.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Please do not ever presume to know me.



    Given the fact that it affects nearly 4 billion people directly, I'd say that it is not only important, but the "most important conflict on the Planet"...


    .
    i can presume nothing less, you are painfully predictable and formulaic.

    the palestinian matter directly affects a few million at best.. however various politcal hyenas and opportunists have made it a global matter when it really should be a local one. islamists have spent a lot of money spreading the word round the muslims world that this is an islamic issue, and a jihad for all muslims to be part of. again good propaganda work, but in reality it matters no more to the average muslim as the japan-china waters dispute matters to me. but there is no japanese buddhsits chanting doctrine and spreading propagnda at me to keep me interested and keep my donations coming in
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    (Original post by gideon123)
    stop what? perhaps its you that needs to stop your hating of jews
    So, just because I believe that , while neither Palestine nor Israel are exactly great, Israel is the worse of the two I hate Jews? Have you considered that as an external observer with no vested interest I might be able to formulate an opinion based upon fact and reason rather than blind ignorance based upon religion?
    If it were up to me I would wipe you both of the map and replace it with a secular state, but that isn't an option.
    Answer my question on the Falklands and the logical deconstruction of your position might be able to resume.
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    (Original post by Maliha Ahmed)
    Jews didn't colonise us, however them killing innocent humans, including children and young women is wrong. It cannot be justified whatsoever.

    Wrong! Not Islamic propaganda, we have not turned our backs and closed eyes to see the injustice happening with Palestinians. It is indeed a very important issue because its concerned with humanity, its the killing of innocent humans.
    the jews didnt colonise you, but the islamic empire did- which seems a rather perverse reason to be obsessed with waht is now, an islamic jihad for Levant.

    i refer you to my post to tsr1269 -

    the obsession with the palestine conflcit is complelty illogical- the numbers of casualties pale in comparision to something like conflicts of the past in say, east timor, or rwanda, sierra leone. - what about when turks where committing armenian genocide, when saddam was gassing kurds? Silence from the islamic world. the only explanation is that islamic propaganda has brainwashed you to think its the most important conflict on the planet.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I can't remember, hence why I was asking for it reiterating. Either way, they seem to have no understanding of the situation, nor do they want to believe in logic argument.
    If you go back a few pages you could probably find a poorly worded question without a question mark or something.
    I agree and this is exactly why he/she ignored my post regarding the situations under Palestinians are living under. The whole world knows that innocent Palestinians are brutally getting killed and no one justifies the actions of Israel. Its actually sad to see how people can disregard the killing of such innocent and young children and still justify Israel's actions.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Warning: Not for the faint hearted:

    Spoiler:
    Show
    No.
    besides,everybody should see this.
    this is what Israel is!a nation that kills children!

    Stop closing your eyes and turning your head away from this genocide.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    They "congratulated" the kidnapping, not the murder of the Israeli civilians.

    Open a timeline or better yet, learn the difference...
    Show me where Hamas condemned the murders. Besides, we are not limited to this case. Hamas' entire conduct of war is about killing civilians and always has been.

    We've been over this many times. I don't have to point out to you how contradictory your ideals and the practical realties are.
    They're not contradictory unless you perceive my ideals to be utopian, which they are not.

    But you are replacing it with an even more liberal society. Are you saying your concept or ideal of a liberal democracy is limited to what you want it to be?
    As I already said, I believe that the way to improve a democracy is by debate and policy, not violence. But let's not go off on tangents, shall we. Liberal democracy is a foreign concept to Hamas.

    We have all these Caliphates rising up all over the place. Iraq, Syria and now you are claiming Palestine. What's to stop HAMAS from declaring an Islamic Caliphate, and then declaring Jihad on the Israeli State. Surely they would get more support from more Muslim countries?

    Why have HAMAS not declared themselves an "Islamic State of Palestine"?


    Do you hear that? That's the sound of your bonking theory in death throes...
    Perhaps for the same reason that ISIS have not declared an Islamic state of Kurdistan. Hamas do not possess the means to control Palestine (as in the geographical area). I'm sure that if, like ISIS in western Iraq, Hamas defeated the Israeli army, they would straight away declare a caliphate. Isn't all this rather obvious? You're clutching at straws.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    i can presume nothing less, you are painfully predictable and formulaic.

    the palestinian matter directly affects a few million at best.. however various politcal hyenas and opportunists have made it a global matter when it really should be a local one. islamists have spent a lot of money spreading the word round the muslims world that this is an islamic issue, and a jihad for all muslims to be part of. again good propaganda work, but in reality it matters no more to the average muslim as the japan-china waters dispute matters to me. but there is no japanese buddhsits chanting doctrine and spreading propagnda at me to keep me interested and keep my donations coming in
    It is an Islamic issue as well as a Palestinian issue in addition to being a Christian and a Jewish issue.

    That makes it around 4 billion people's issues.

    Thankfully, we have one less person to add to that list as you have declared yourself to be an uninterested party.

    Can I assume that as have declared yourself to be a disinterested party, you will refrain from posting and remove yourself from the thread or is that too much to ask for your opinionated self?
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    (Original post by Maliha Ahmed)
    I agree and this is exactly why he/she ignored my post regarding the situations under Palestinians are living under. The whole world knows that innocent Palestinians are brutally getting killed and no one justifies the actions of Israel. Its actually sad to see how people can disregard the killing of such innocent and young children and still justify Israel's actions.
    Such is the power of the media, especially the likes of the allegedly unbiased BBC.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Show me where Hamas condemned the murders. Besides, we are not limited to this case. Hamas' entire conduct of war is about killing civilians and always has been.
    Why would they need to "condemn the murders"? They had nothing to do with it, did they?

    They're not contradictory unless you perceive my ideals to be utopian, which they are not.
    Your ideals are circular. In fact, they are specifically a catch-22 situation.

    As I already said, I believe that the way to improve a democracy is by debate and policy, not violence. But let's not go off on tangents, shall we. Liberal democracy is a foreign concept to Hamas.
    I take it is limited. Have you started pigeoholing your views again?

    Perhaps for the same reason that ISIS have not declared an Islamic state of Kurdistan. Hamas do not possess the means to control Palestine (as in the geographical area). I'm sure that if, like ISIS in western Iraq, Hamas defeated the Israeli army, they would straight away declare a caliphate. Isn't all this rather obvious? You're clutching at straws.
    Islamic State of Gaza has a nice ring to it but guess what, it's not been declared.

    There goes your tinpot theory about Islamists and the Caliphate...
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    It is an Islamic issue as well as a Palestinian issue in addition to being a Christian and a Jewish issue.

    That makes it around 4 billion people's issues.

    Thankfully, we have one less person to add to that list as you have declared yourself to be an uninterested party.

    Can I assume that as have declared yourself to be a disinterested party, you will refrain from posting and remove yourself from the thread or is that too much to ask for your opinionated self?
    it has become an issue for the entire world- my point is it should never have. europe, the us, south america, most of asia ( non muslims) would be perfectly happy if the palestinians handed over the land to the jews , or vice versa, jsut so long as jews and muslims learnt to settle down live in peace.
    its only the islamic agenda that cannot allow a simple peaceful solution, (as they wont in any conflct) i fully beleive islamsits need conflcit to continue, to be able to continually spread their message. they have you under their thumb, why would they let you up? muslims in uk, asia, africa, all puppets on a string fixated on palestine
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    it has become an issue for the entire world- my point is it should never have. europe, the us, south america, most of asia ( non muslims) would be perfectly happy if the palestinians handed over the land to the jews , or vice versa, jsut so long as jews and muslims learnt to settle down live in peace.
    its only the islamic agenda that cannot allow a simple peaceful solution, (as they wont in any conflct) i fully beleive islamsits need conflcit to continue, to be able to continually spread their message. they have you under their thumb, why would they let you up?
    Now, go and put yourself in their shoes. They will say the same of Christianity, Israel and the west in general.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    it has become an issue for the entire world- my point is it should never have. europe, the us, south america, most of asia ( non muslims) would be perfectly happy if the palestinians handed over the land to the jews , or vice versa, jsut so long as jews and muslims learnt to settle down live in peace.
    its only the islamic agenda that cannot allow a simple peaceful solution, (as they wont in any conflct) i fully beleive islamsits need conflcit to continue, to be able to continually spread their message. they have you under their thumb, why would they let you up?
    And yet you can't help yourself, always having an opinion on this matter or that matter.

    You have declared yourself to be a disinterested party to this conflict. This is my last post to inform you that I shall not be responding actively to whatever you post from now on.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    the jews didnt colonise you, but the islamic empire did- which seems a rather perverse reason to be obsessed with waht is now, an islamic jihad for Levant.

    i refer you to my post to tsr1269 -

    the obsession with the palestine conflcit is complelty illogical- the numbers of casualties pale in comparision to something like conflicts of the past in say, east timor, or rwanda, sierra leone. - what about when turks where committing armenian genocide, when saddam was gassing kurds? Silence from the islamic world. the only explanation is that islamic propaganda has brainwashed you to think its the most important conflict on the planet.
    If they remained silent, its their fault but If I existed then I wouldn't have. For me, humanity is the most important thing as taught by my religion. If I had the power to bomb Israel, I wouldn't because I acknowledged the fact that they're humans and no humans should be treated brutally.

    Plus, suppose if most Muslims have stood up against Israel's attacks on Palestine, what is wrong with that? Why wouldn't you expect them to stand up against it? Would you not stand up for someone innocent who shared your beliefs and was brutally killed ? The truth is that innocent Palestinians are killed and it cannot be justified whatsoever. Please I request you to address the real problem, the killing of innocent humans, you are also a human and I'm sure humanity is higher than anything even for you.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Now, go and put yourself in their shoes. They will say the same of Christianity, Israel and the west in general.
    didnt you read the paragraph directly above that :rolleyes: i jsut said the West would accept any solution that lead to stabiility . it is islamists that refuse to even accept a jewish state there
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    (Original post by Maliha Ahmed)
    If they remained silent, its their fault but If I existed then I wouldn't have. For me, humanity is the most important thing as taught by my religion. If I had the power to bomb Israel, I wouldn't because I acknowledged the fact that they're humans and no humans should be treated brutally.

    Plus, suppose if most Muslims have stood up against Israel's attacks on Palestine, what is wrong with that? Why wouldn't you expect them to stand up against it? Would you not stand up for someone innocent who shared your beliefs and was brutally killed ? The truth is that innocent Palestinians are killed and it cannot be justified whatsoever. Please I request you to address the real problem, the killing of innocent humans, you are also a human and I'm sure humanity is higher than anything even for you.
    im not saying you shouldnt comment, im querying why non arab muslims take so much issue with what happens in palestine ( in abeyance of conflicts all round the world which are far worse, and have far higher casualites) - the only reason i can see is a result of propaganda.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    didnt you read the paragraph directly above that :rolleyes: i jsut said the West would accept any solution that lead to stabiility . it is islamists that refuse to even accept a jewish state there
    As I've said, I believe to you, before the PLO are willing to negotiate, Hamas is not. Israel nicely blocks it all until the Hamas Issue is resolved.
    Let's consider something a bit closer to home (for those in the Uk at least). Saying the Islamists are stopping a solution is like like saying the IRA are stopping a solution in Northern Ireland, yet progress is still being made, albeit slowly.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Such is the power of the media, especially the likes of the allegedly unbiased BBC.
    I agree!

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...XyeZnwenMuJ6Gg
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    And yet you can't help yourself, always having an opinion on this matter or that matter.

    You have declared yourself to be a disinterested party to this conflict. This is my last post to inform you that I shall not be responding actively to whatever you post from now on.
    i have an opinion on lots of things, but im not obsessed with palestine or israel- as you and many other muslims are. i simply asked you why you are, when there have been much more bigger conflicts or more relevant ones to you - but you had no answer. i guess its pointless asking the indoctrinated why they are indoctrinated , my bad.
 
 
 
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