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Vae
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#5601
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#5601
The BdO will be decided by performances in October/November and the WC. Usually it's World Cup > CL, so it should weigh in the voting more. Perhaps the fact that it's "la décima" will make a difference but we'll see.

Doubt CR is the absolute favourite atm though, the media hyped Ramos/Di María and not him as the décima heroes and called them BdO contenders, while he got a lot of stick for his performance/celebration in the final. The injures could be a problem as well. His chances are better than Messi's right now,but it's relatively open I think. He's definitely going to win the UEFA award though, CL record and everything.

Anyway, Messi looked very sharp for Argentina yesterday. Playing better for Argentina than for Barça now, who would have thought that 3 years ago? Martino really didn't know how to use/capitalise on him properly. Hopefully Lucho does. If more goes through the midfield and not the wings again, he will naturally thrive again as well.
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Manchester United
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#5602
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#5602
(Original post by Kenan and Kel)
Yeah but him playing and then scoring (and of course milking the celebration) ruined it for me. If Courtois had saved his penalty, that would have been great. If he saved then penalty and Bale knocked in the rebound, that would have been even better.

Yeah the Ballon D'or is his, unless Spain (Ramos), Uruguay or Argentina win the World Cup. I'd like to see Ramos win it personally, not because he's a great defender or anything but he is a genuine hero amongst men - he has a chance if Spain make the final.

It's funny that we acknowledge Messi wins the Ballon D'or because he's the best. But when Ronaldo wins it, it's because Messi's playing a bit crap.
The only things that can stop Ronaldo winning the Ballon d'Or again is;

1 - Argentina winning the World Cup and Messi scoring 4+ goals.
2 - Uruguay winning the World Cup and Suarez scoring 4+ goals.
3 - Ronaldo plays awful/injured for the 2014/15 season.

I think Argentina will win the World Cup and Messi will obliterate the tournament. He could/should easily get 5+ goals from the group-stages. So I'm predicting a 5th Ballon d'Or for Messi
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jam278
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#5603
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#5603
(Original post by Manchester United)
The only things that can stop Ronaldo winning the Ballon d'Or again is;

1 - Argentina winning the World Cup and Messi scoring 4+ goals.
2 - Uruguay winning the World Cup and Suarez scoring 4+ goals.
3 - Ronaldo plays awful/injured for the 2014/15 season.

I think Argentina will win the World Cup and Messi will obliterate the tournament. He could/should easily get 5+ goals from the group-stages. So I'm predicting a 5th Ballon d'Or for Messi
Yeah this essentially.

I disagree about the voting being only made in october. The world cup also determines a lot.
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Manchester United
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#5604
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#5604
(Original post by jam278)
Yeah this essentially.

I disagree about the voting being only made in october. The world cup also determines a lot.
Although it would be very interesting if it was Argentina/Uruguay vs Portugal in the final and Argentina/Uruguay won.

Who would get the Ballon d'Or then?
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jam278
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#5605
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#5605
(Original post by Manchester United)
Although it would be very interesting if it was Argentina/Uruguay vs Portugal in the final and Argentina/Uruguay won.

Who would get the Ballon d'Or then?
Would probably be a draw at that point, would have to rely on the start of the season.

It's definitely a 3 horse race though. Luckily it's WC year so one or two more people can put their names into the mix. Dunno why people were talking Ibra before.

Wonder what would happen if Cavani gets golden boot and Uruguay win it.
My unbiased bet is on Hazard winning it and leading Belgium to world cup glory...
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Malevolent
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#5606
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#5606
If Messi, Ronaldo or Suarez leads their respective team to the World Cup final and wins it that person has basically got their hand on the Ballon D'or.
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jam278
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#5607
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#5607
(Original post by Malevolent)
If Messi, Ronaldo or Suarez leads their respective team to the World Cup final and wins it that person has basically got their hand on the Ballon D'or.
Suarez is a weird one though, because of Cavani, who's had a solid season on the wing and could easily be the star of the Uruguay team just as much as Suarez.

What if Daniel Sturridge wins England the world cup? They'll probably give the plaudits to Rooney anyway even when he does **** in another WC :rolleyes: racist *******ly media.
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Manchester United
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#5608
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#5608
(Original post by jam278)
Would probably be a draw at that point, would have to rely on the start of the season.

It's definitely a 3 horse race though. Luckily it's WC year so one or two more people can put their names into the mix. Dunno why people were talking Ibra before.

Wonder what would happen if Cavani gets golden boot and Uruguay win it.
My unbiased bet is on Hazard winning it and leading Belgium to world cup glory...
Yeah, we could even consider Neymar if he scored 8+ goals and won it with Brazil. Maybe Costa if he scored 8+ goals and Spain won it?

I think Ronaldo is a bit unlucky that one of his best seasons has come in a World Cup year. If he scores 17 goals in CL + Won the CL/Copa next year, it would be a 100% sure Ballon d'Or.

I don't subscribe to the 'you have to win a World Cup to be considered the greatest' either. Messi and Ronaldo are the best in my lifetime, and probably the greatest ever. I think the Champions League is much more competitive (as in there are more world-class players) than the World Cup.

That said, I really can't wait for this World Cup man!
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Malevolent
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#5609
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#5609
(Original post by jam278)
Suarez is a weird one though, because of Cavani, who's had a solid season on the wing and could easily be the star of the Uruguay team just as much as Suarez.

What if Daniel Sturridge wins England the world cup? They'll probably give the plaudits to Rooney anyway even when he does **** in another WC :rolleyes: racist *******ly media.
That's why I meant Suarez leads then so he stars
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jam278
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#5610
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#5610
(Original post by Manchester United)
Yeah, we could even consider Neymar if he scored 8+ goals and won it with Brazil. Maybe Costa if he scored 8+ goals and Spain won it?

I think Ronaldo is a bit unlucky that one of his best seasons has come in a World Cup year. If he scores 17 goals in CL + Won the CL/Copa next year, it would be a 100% sure Ballon d'Or.

I don't subscribe to the 'you have to win a World Cup to be considered the greatest' either. Messi and Ronaldo are the best in my lifetime, and probably the greatest ever. I think the Champions League is much more competitive (as in there are more world-class players) than the World Cup.

That said, I really can't wait for this World Cup man!
Yeah I agree. I do wonder though there are quite a few star players in this world cup and they're not situated to just 2/3 teams.

England obviously have Rooney and Sturridge.
Belgium have Hazard+Lukaku
Argentina have Messi+Aguero and more
Spain have essentially their first 11
Brazil have Neymar and my boy Fred(loljk), Oscar is a very good cup player too, does well in the CL for us so he could shine as well.
Germany have Ozil/Muller/Reus/Gotze who could all shine at the world cup. Lahm as well.
Italy have Pirlo/Rossi/Balotelli/Immobile who either have come off great seasons or have shown in previous tournaments how bossy they are.
Portugal with Ronaldo.
Colombia with James Rodriguez and Jackson Martinez, doesn't look as great now as they did with Falcao, my man Cuadrado will still be running things though.

So many good players this world cup in comparison to the last.
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LightBlueSoldier
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#5611
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#5611
Di Maria should be the favourite for ballon d'or at the moment. Like in 2006 the World Cup will probably decide it. Messi only won in 2010 because he was so far ahead of everyone else.


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Manchester United
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#5612
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#5612
(Original post by LightBlueSoldier)
Di Maria should be the favourite for ballon d'or at the moment. Like in 2006 the World Cup will probably decide it. Messi only won in 2010 because he was so far ahead of everyone else.


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No he shouldn't.

It's hipsters like you that annoy me. Di Maria has been excellent, especially in some big games. I've always said that he's just behind Ribery in terms of quality.

However, because he gets MOTM in the CL final you churp up with this BS.

Do you watch a lot of football? Or just the big games?
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jam278
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#5613
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#5613
(Original post by Manchester United)
No he shouldn't.

It's hipsters like you that annoy me. Di Maria has been excellent, especially in some big games. I've always said that he's just behind Ribery in terms of quality.

However, because he gets MOTM in the CL final you churp up with this BS.

Do you watch a lot of football? Or just the big games?
The problem here is that the balon d'or is essentially one of, who has the golden boot or is around the top goalscorer, who has a big name as one of the best and who wins all the competitions.

If you tick all three of these boxes you're a shoe in for the Balon D'or. This is why Ronaldo will win it unless Messi/Suarez wins the world cup for their respective teams or somebody like Hazard/Aguero/Sturridge/Costa etc. plays a blinder in the world cup, wins their team the world cup and is still on form until the time voting closes.
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Manchester United
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#5614
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#5614
(Original post by jam278)
The problem here is that the balon d'or is essentially one of, who has the golden boot or is around the top goalscorer, who has a big name as one of the best and who wins all the competitions.

If you tick all three of these boxes you're a shoe in for the Balon D'or. This is why Ronaldo will win it unless Messi/Suarez wins the world cup for their respective teams or somebody like Hazard/Aguero/Sturridge/Costa etc. plays a blinder in the world cup, wins their team the world cup and is still on form until the time voting closes.
Yeah and I have no problem with it being like that.

I was referring to his post about Di Maria. Since the CL final, the hipsters have jumped on the Di Maria bandwagon because he made 2-3 great runs. I can guarantee that LightBlueSoldier wouldn't have said that before the CL final.

The funny thing is, Di Maria wasn't actually that good in the CL final. Everybody was poor.

If we're comparing Bale/Ronaldo/Di Maria in the final;

Pass Completion:

Ronaldo - 82%
Bale - 60%
Di Maria - 60%


Shots on Target:

Ronaldo - 4
Di Maria - 2
Bale - 1


Fouls Committed:

Bale - 3
Di Maria - 0
Ronaldo - 0
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jam278
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#5615
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#5615
(Original post by Manchester United)
Yeah and I have no problem with it being like that.

I was referring to his post about Di Maria. Since the CL final, the hipsters have jumped on the Di Maria bandwagon because he made 2-3 great runs. I can guarantee that LightBlueSoldier wouldn't have said that before the CL final.

The funny thing is, Di Maria wasn't actually that good in the CL final. Everybody was poor.

If we're comparing Bale/Ronaldo/Di Maria in the final;

Pass Completion:

Ronaldo - 82%
Bale - 60%
Di Maria - 60%


Shots on Target:

Ronaldo - 4
Di Maria - 2
Bale - 1


Fouls Committed:

Bale - 3
Di Maria - 0
Ronaldo - 0
The problem with using stats in this case is because Di Maria was generally deeper than the other two and his job was to make early crossing opportunities for the forwards. He's going to have a bad pass completion rate in this instance.

Di Maria had a great game against Barcelona in the 4-3 loss too btw. He was probably MOTM before Madrid had a man sent off.

Finally the other two stats make no sense. You're using shots on target when Ronaldo was playing behind the striker, Bale was playing a bit more advanced than Di Maria and Di Maria plays a supporting winger role and fouls commited for 2 wingers and a striker make no sense. Bale e.g. may have fouled Atlético players to prevent the counter attack, meaning he potentially prevented 3 counter attacks. That would be better than not making a tackle and Atlético getting into a good position and breaking at pace.

Personally think that Marcelo was the difference, or at least the dynamic between Marcelo and Di Maria.
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Vae
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#5616
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#5616
(Original post by Manchester United)
No he shouldn't.

It's hipsters like you that annoy me. Di Maria has been excellent, especially in some big games. I've always said that he's just behind Ribery in terms of quality.

However, because he gets MOTM in the CL final you churp up with this BS.

Do you watch a lot of football? Or just the big games?


Based on this calendar year, who do you think should win it?

I agree though it's a bit unfair Di María is getting so much attention when it was Modric who was one of, perhaps the best RM player this season, and he doesn't get mentioned that much now. Definitely best midfielder in la liga this season.
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Manchester United
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#5617
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#5617
(Original post by jam278)
The problem with using stats in this case is because Di Maria was generally deeper than the other two and his job was to make early crossing opportunities for the forwards. He's going to have a bad pass completion rate in this instance.

Di Maria had a great game against Barcelona in the 4-3 loss too btw. He was probably MOTM before Madrid had a man sent off.

Finally the other two stats make no sense. You're using shots on target when Ronaldo was playing behind the striker, Bale was playing a bit more advanced than Di Maria and Di Maria plays a supporting winger role and fouls commited for 2 wingers and a striker make no sense. Bale e.g. may have fouled Atlético players to prevent the counter attack, meaning he potentially prevented 3 counter attacks. That would be better than not making a tackle and Atlético getting into a good position and breaking at pace.

Personally think that Marcelo was the difference, or at least the dynamic between Marcelo and Di Maria.
One could argue that Di Maria had 'easier' passes to make because he was in the center. Typically, CB's and CM's have the best pass-completion rates because they have more team-mates around them (and usually a safety pass - back to the CB's). However, most of Di Maria's crosses were poor. Most of them were too short or too long. I felt for most of the game he was crossing too early. However, people only remember the few runs he made and deduce that he was the best player in the final. Well he wasn't.

I agree that Marcelo was the turning point. Coentrao wasn't helping Ronaldo out enough. But then Ancelotti shifted Di Maria out-wide with Marcelo overlapping. This worked well against the tired legs of the Atletico defence. Also, Modric has been exquisite this year. He really deserves more praise.

People need to understand that Atletico don't give the front-three much space. Messi hasn't scored in like 6 or 7 games. Ronaldo struggles to find space. Benzema was non-existent in the final. Ronaldo actually put Bale through on a few occasions, but Bale missed them all.

I didn't expect Ronaldo/Bale/Benzema to run riot in the final, because Atletico are set up to stop the front three. To beat Atletico, you rely on your midfielders/full-backs running at the defence and drawing fouls. This is common knowledge for most people who watch Atletico week in, week out. However, the hipsters don't seem to know this and therefore wonder why the front-three 'didn't do anything' for the majority of the match. This is of course forgetting the injuries the three front players had/have.

To conclude; I think Marcelo, Ramos and Modric were the best players in the final. Ronaldo, Di Maria and Varane were average. Khedira and Benzema were the worst.

(Original post by qua)
Based on this calendar year, who do you think should win it?

I agree though that the attention Di María is getting is a bit unfair considering it was Modric who was one of, perhaps the best RM player this season, and he doesn't get mentioned much now after the final. Definitely best midfielder in la liga this season.
Ronaldo is the favourite at the moment just because of his CL performances/goals/assists. But it's pointless to have a debate about this until after the World Cup, as that will be the most significant factor.
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LightBlueSoldier
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#5618
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#5618
(Original post by Manchester United)
No he shouldn't.

It's hipsters like you that annoy me. Di Maria has been excellent, especially in some big games. I've always said that he's just behind Ribery in terms of quality.

However, because he gets MOTM in the CL final you churp up with this BS.

Do you watch a lot of football? Or just the big games?
I said exactly the same thing about a week before the final. You can look it up in my post history.

I watch a fair amount. Di Maria has been the best player of 2014 and it hasn't been close. Even Ronaldo slurpers like yourself should recognise this.

And I am hardly a hipster. I hold extremely conservative (in the modifying sense) opinions on most things.


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Manchester United
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#5619
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#5619
(Original post by LightBlueSoldier)
I said exactly the same thing about a week before the final. You can look it up in my post history.

I watch a fair amount. Di Maria has been the best player of 2014 and it hasn't been close. Even Ronaldo slurpers like yourself should recognise this.

And I am hardly a hipster. I hold extremely conservative (in the modifying sense) opinions on most things.


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If you genuinely think Di Maria has been the best player of 2014 then I have no interest in wasting my time on you.
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jam278
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#5620
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#5620
I can't wait till the world cup you know. It's going to be a good one I'm sure of it.
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