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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    we didnt interfere with any islamist group, until they attacked the west anyway. the west rightly has responded to islamist terrorism, there could have been no other outcome.
    The West supported Islamist movements for quite a while in the Cold War as they were seen as a tool to use against both Arab nationalism and far-left groups aligned with the Soviets.

    Islamists (well, at least Sunni Islamists) didn't really turn against the US until the early 1990s. Indeed, 9/11 dramatically altered Western perceptions of what 'terrorism' meant - before this the stereotype of terrorists would have been paramilitaries in Northern Ireland (for Brits), ETA (for Spaniards and Western Europeans in general), or Timothy McVeigh (for Americans).
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Because there are a lot of idiots and gullible saps out there? For a start, most devout religious people.
    indeed- and these are the sort of people most likely to swallow false islamist propaganda. some of which i have seen infact used on thi s thread
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    The West supported Islamist movements for quite a while in the Cold War as they were seen as a tool to use against both Arab nationalism and far-left groups aligned with the Soviets.

    Islamists (well, at least Sunni Islamists) didn't really turn against the US until the early 1990s. Indeed, 9/11 dramatically altered Western perceptions of what 'terrorism' meant - before this the stereotype of terrorists would have been paramilitaries in Northern Ireland (for Brits), ETA (for Spaniards and Western Europeans in general), or Timothy McVeigh (for Americans).
    no they would have always be regarded as terrorist - but the reality was islamists were not on the USAs radar, they were unimportant. 9/11 wasnt the first attack on usa, pre-cursors to al queda attacked us targets nearly 10 years before. and islamist terrorists had been operating for some time previous in various places, kashmir for example, somalia, and of course palestine.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    we didnt interfere with any islamist group, until they attacked the west anyway. the west rightly has responded to islamist terrorism, there could have been no other outcome.
    So we didn't remove Mossadegh? We didn't go in and try to replace regimes with more trade friendly dictators? We didn't give tacit support/approval to Sisi to stage a coup?

    in respect of ISIS specifically, they would continue their march of murder rape and taking salves in the middle east whether the west existed or not. it jsut so happens they hate the west too, just like
    How is that any of our concern?

    We don't get nothing, apart from attacks on our own shores, if we try and interfere with the affairs of another country.

    and again even if they didnt hate the west and create terrorism there would still be a moral argument for attacking them, because islamists are abhorent people, bands of murderers and rapists, that cause problems accross the globe and are infact a stain on human civilisation
    And it is exactly that kind of ****ing attitude which has got us here in this mess in the first place.

    Our MP's represent US, not the global populace. Of course, you may have an argument after we get our own country straight, but that's only when we get our own country straight.

    We should lead by example. Not impose our way of life, our concepts and notions on another group of people 7000km away. We do not elect our leaders to do that.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    So we didn't remove Mossadegh? We didn't go in and try to replace regimes with more trade friendly dictators? We didn't give tacit support/approval to Sisi to stage a coup?



    How is that any of our concern?

    We don't get nothing, apart from attacks on our own shores, if we try and interfere with the affairs of another country.



    And it is exactly that kind of ****ing attitude which has got us here in this mess in the first place.

    Our MP's represent US, not the global populace. Of course, you may have an argument after we get our own country straight, but that's only when we get our own country straight.

    We should lead by example. Not impose our way of life, our concepts and notions on another group of people 7000km away. We do not elect our leaders to do that.
    "not impose our way of life"-like the islamists are trying to do where ever they go you mean? what ever you are *****ing about the west, islamist agendas are 10, 20 maybe 100 times worse.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)

    How is that any of our concern?

    We don't get nothing, apart from attacks on our own shores, if we try and interfere with the affairs of another country.
    it is of concern for all the reasons i mentioned above - humanitarian, stopping a bunch of rabid murderers and rapists trying to impose their islamic ideology on others.
    but apart form that britain , amoung other european states are actually a source for a lot of these terrorists, so we have to be proactive in the fight against terrorism, mainly against IS, but with a mind too targettting britains muslims that may plan to go and commit terrorism in gaza/israel
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    "not impose our way of life"-like the islamists are trying to do where ever they go you mean? what ever you are *****ing about the west, islamist agendas are 10, 20 maybe 100 times worse.
    We are imposing our way of life. Our concepts, out notions, our sense of freedom on people who have no understanding, no desire, no wish to be like us.

    You are voting for a party based on their manifesto which deals with things 7000km away but you should be doing it based on the policies that they want to implement domestically.

    I'd be willing to give my right arm to say that people like you would overlook the actions of a totalitarian regime if it meant a few more Islamists's skulls being bashed in and that is a truly reprehensible manifestation of your character.

    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    it is of concern for all the reasons i mentioned above - humanitarian, stopping a bunch of rabid murderers and rapists trying to impose their islamic ideology on others.
    but apart form that britain , amoung other european states are actually a source for a lot of these terrorists, so we have to be proactive in the fight against terrorism, mainly against IS, but with a mind too targettting britains muslims that may plan to go and commit terrorism in gaza/israel
    But you do not seem to understand that it is because we are trying to impose our way of life on them, that they are rejecting it and rebelling against it.


    Think of it as an organ donation. There are compatible organ donors and non-compatible organ donors. What would your body do if you tried to replace an organ with a healthy non-compatible organ?

    The body would reject it. The antibodies would fight against it and eventually the patient would crash.


    Our concepts, notions and ideals, however great or healthy they are, are not compatible with the lifestyle of those that live in Arabia and North Africa. These are "Western concepts" and they should stay in the West, until such a time when they can become global.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    We are imposing our way of life. Our concepts, out notions, our sense of freedom on people who have no understanding, no desire, no wish to be like us. .
    no we are not. you are quoting cases from 1955, there have no relevance anymore to today. todays fight is againt the spread of islamsit ideology, of their mass murders, killing cvililans, terrorisim, rape, slavery etc etc. it is not he West fight, asia is on our side in this fight, the russians, the chinese, african states etc etc and indeed israel all are taking the fight to islamists - you convienently ignore this fact. it is human civilisation that is fighting against this evil, not simply us.

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    You are voting for a party based on their manifesto which deals with things 7000km away but you should be doing it based on the policies that they want to implement domestically..
    you are advocating a political figure (galloway) that campaigns in uk purley to the muslim population on the back of palestine he takes his orders ( and salaries) from arabs 7000 km away. normal uk politics ls is entirely inward focusses, the ukis the primary concern, not some arabs age-old obsession to steal land of the jews in the middle east. We only concern ourself with foreign issues, when they make threats to our way of life, - which islamic terrorists do. Just like any other society would do, simple as , dont really see what you are struggling to understand




    (Original post by tsr1269)
    I'd be willing to give my right arm to say that people like you would overlook the actions of a totalitarian regime if it meant a few more Islamists's skulls being bashed in and that is a truly reprehensible manifestation of your character. .
    . im my personal opinion i dont really care what these societies do with ir crazy borders themselves, as long as it doesnt affect outside their own crazy borders. i only advocating killing islamists, becuase they are purely barbaric animals with a primitive mentality- you only need to see what they are doing under the banner of IS in syria and iraq - and that they hate western ( and in reality all Non-islamic) socciety and therefore try and to target it. the rest of the world will not stand for islamist aggression, this is not the dark ages, the rest of the world is perfectly capable and willing to use all means to defend its way of life. that goes for israel too.
    [QUOTE=tsr1269;50037847]
    But you do not seem to understand that it is because we are trying to impose our way of life on them, that they are rejecting it and rebelling against it. how does that apply to syria or iraq even - iraqis wanted the right to vote and they also wanted saddam gone ( who was btw another one of the US puppets - funny you didnt complain about that one)

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Think of it as an organ donation. There are compatible organ donors and non-compatible organ donors. What would your body do if you tried to replace an organ with a healthy non-compatible organ?

    The body would reject it. The antibodies would fight against it and eventually the patient would crash. .
    islamists are not antibodies, they are viruses and bacteria

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Our concepts, notions and ideals, however great or healthy they are, are not compatible with the lifestyle of those that live in Arabia and North Africa. These are "Western concepts" and they should stay in the West, until such a time when they can become global.
    i dont care about the lifestyles in arabia. but you are trying to pretend that all people in middle east want a fully islamic lifestyle - they dont that is fact ... they have more invested in western culture than you can imagine . that is without accounting for the economic ties that puts food on their tables. IS , Hamas, al shabab etc etc and all islamist groups have to forcibly take control of their regions militarily, they are not invited to rule. its simply that the general muslim population is too spineless to do anything about islamist warlords, they jsut follow sheepishly - and leave it for the rest fo the world to deal with the problems they have created, that spill over outside their borders
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    no we are not. you are quoting cases from 1955, there have no relevance anymore to today. todays fight is againt the spread of islamsit ideology, of their mass murders, killing cvililans, terrorisim, rape, slavery etc etc. it is not he West fight, asia is on our side in this fight, the russians, the chinese, african states etc etc and indeed israel all are taking the fight to islamists - you convienently ignore this fact. it is human civilisation that is fighting against this evil, not simply us.
    We are imposing our notion of what it is to be "human" on these people.

    you are advocating a political figure (galloway) that campaigns in uk purley to the muslim population on the back of palestine he takes his orders ( and salaries) from arabs 7000 km away. normal uk politics ls is entirely inward focusses, the ukis the primary concern, not some arabs age-old obsession to steal land of the jews in the middle east. We only concern ourself with foreign issues, when they make threats to our way of life, - which islamic terrorists do. Just like any other society would do, simple as , dont really see what you are struggling to understand
    And they do so because we impose or attempt to impose our way of life on them.

    It's sad that you don't seem to get it.

    . im my personal opinion i dont really care what these societies do with ir crazy borders themselves, as long as it doesnt affect outside their own crazy borders. i only advocating killing islamists, becuase they are purely barbaric animals with a primitive mentality- you only need to see what they are doing under the banner of IS in syria and iraq - and that they hate western ( and in reality all Non-islamic) socciety and therefore try and to target it. the rest of the world will not stand for islamist aggression, this is not the dark ages, the rest of the world is perfectly capable and willing to use all means to defend its way of life. that goes for israel too.
    And when the dust settles, there shall be none who will not call you a hypocrite...

    islamists are not antibodies, they are viruses and bacteria
    Exactly! You've got it! They are trying to reject the non-compatible healthy organ.

    i dont care about the lifestyles in arabia. but you are trying to pretend that all people in middle east want a fully islamic lifestyle - they dont that is fact ... they have more invested in western culture than you can imagine . that is without accounting for the economic ties that puts food on their tables. IS , Hamas, al shabab etc etc and all islamist groups have to forcibly take control of their regions militarily, they are not invited to rule. its simply that the general muslim population is too spineless to do anything about islamist warlords, they jsut follow sheepishly - and leave it for the rest fo the world to deal with the problems they have created, that spill over outside their borders
    Ah yes, our "allies" in the region. Interesting read, huh? The same guys who have so much "invested" in the West are actually the ones funding the Islamists.

    Isn't it ironic that the Islamists (Saudi Arabia) are funding the Islamists (IS) but we are only concentrating on the Islamists (IS) whilst holding the Islamists (Saudi Arabia) as allies?

    They'll smile for the cameras, invest their money, play with you, entertain you in their palaces but they will never be on the same page as you. They are true to their own beliefs and nothing else. Friends, allies, buddies means nothing to them. It's their way or the highway and the sooner we realise what snakes they are, the better.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    We are imposing our notion of what it is to be "human" on these people..
    no we arnt. no sane human would think murder rape and slavery as practiced by islamic state is good. it is evil

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    And they do so because we impose or attempt to impose our way of life on them.
    . again no , you dont seem to get this point through your skull - ISIS and other islamists hate all non-islamic society, they want to impose islam, they dont want to live under non islamic societies, not without conflcit anyway. we are not imposing our way of life on ISIS, and yet they still go around murdering. it is in their nature

    there are sunni islamists and shia ones. there agendas extend back long before the 'West' as a power existed. their gripes are nothing to do with us, they want the freedom to continue their islamic wars with each other and also the non -muslims in the middle east ( jews mainly) and dont care if the world burns i the meantime. the West and East are the force that prevents that from happeneing

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    And when the dust settles, there shall be none who will not call you a hypocrite... .
    eh?


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Exactly! You've got it! They are trying to reject the non-compatible healthy organ. .
    your are getting your analagies confused - viruses didnt belong there in the first place, they invaded and took over


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Ah yes, our "allies" in the region. Interesting read, huh? The same guys who have so much "invested" in the West are actually the ones funding the Islamists.

    Isn't it ironic that the Islamists (Saudi Arabia) are funding the Islamists (IS) but we are only concentrating on the Islamists (IS) whilst holding the Islamists (Saudi Arabia) as allies? .
    it si not interesting or ironic it is simply the stupidity of various western politicians that have hitched their wagon to the arab oil tanker for the last 30 years. do you not understand the intracies of international politics and economic relationships? that same oil carrot was used with the likes of william hague and other idiots to try convince uk public to side with isis and other scum like them to fight against Assad. im glad parliement shut that down and Hague has now crawled off tail between his legs.

    and im glad at least despite this oil hungry attitude west has, we can still see right from wrong- to the extent we will no longer support saudi and its arab satellites islamist agendas by bombing their spawned slime IS

    the reality of that situation is , i predict, that our oil dependancy on the arabs will drop over time, with south america, india, nigeria all becomeing much bigger players in oil production, and indeed oil itself becoming less important. I even predict Iran and syria becoming more uk -friendly - who knows may reverse their oil embargo


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    They'll smile for the cameras, invest their money, play with you, entertain you in their palaces but they will never be on the same page as you. They are true to their own beliefs and nothing else. Friends, allies, buddies means nothing to them. It's their way or the highway and the sooner we realise what snakes they are, the better.
    i already know that islamists are snakes -. equally you are ignorant if you think that the west is not aware of saudi and arabs involvement with islamist groups. they tolerate it (for the moment) for convienence but at the same time attack their terrorist factions. without the oil trade, the arabs would be nothing, still be living in tents with their camels. they need interaction with the outside world too, particulalry the west. they certainly wouldnt be able to fund islamists like IS, Hamas, etc etc and hunt their islamist goals.
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    How they justify genocide. PS. Mods can suck it for being anti-freedom of speech.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    no we arnt. no sane human would think murder rape and slavery as practiced by islamic state is good. it is evil
    And there we have it. Our imposition, our notion, our ideal of what we feel constitutes a "human being".

    . again no , you dont seem to get this point through your skull - ISIS and other islamists hate all non-islamic society, they want to impose islam, they dont want to live under non islamic societies, not without conflcit anyway. we are not imposing our way of life on ISIS, and yet they still go around murdering. it is in their nature

    there are sunni islamists and shia ones. there agendas extend back long before the 'West' as a power existed. their gripes are nothing to do with us, they want the freedom to continue their islamic wars with each other and also the non -muslims in the middle east ( jews mainly) and dont care if the world burns i the meantime. the West and East are the force that prevents that from happeneing
    Why are Islamists not imposing Islam in the UK or America? They've been around for decades. Surely, we should be living in an Islamic State by now, no?

    eh?
    To destroy, or completely wipe out those whom you consider to be a threat would entail you to lose your humanity, the exact concept you accuse the Islamists of lacking.

    your are getting your analagies confused - viruses didnt belong there in the first place, they invaded and took over
    I only gave the one analogy so I can't have confused the "analagies (sic)". Regardless, the host body is rejecting the organ transplantation.

    it si not interesting or ironic it is simply the stupidity of various western politicians that have hitched their wagon to the arab oil tanker for the last 30 years. do you not understand the intracies of international politics and economic relationships? that same oil carrot was used with the likes of william hague and other idiots to try convince uk public to side with isis and other scum like them to fight against Assad. im glad parliement shut that down and Hague has now crawled off tail between his legs. [/B]

    and im glad at least despite this oil hungry attitude west has, we can still see right from wrong- to the extent we will no longer support saudi and its arab satellites islamist agendas by bombing their spawned slime IS

    the reality of that situation is , i predict, that our oil dependancy on the arabs will drop over time, with south america, india, nigeria all becomeing much bigger players in oil production, and indeed oil itself becoming less important. I even predict Iran and syria becoming more uk -friendly - who knows may reverse their oil embargo
    You seem to not be living in reality. You seem to not understand that short of establishing another empire, we can only rely on ourself. We cannot rely on our "enemies, allies or even friends". When the going gets rough, we will be alone in the world and we need to make sure that we make decisions which are best for our country, and not simply because our puppet master tells us.

    i already know that islamists are snakes -. equally you are ignorant if you think that the west is not aware of saudi and arabs involvement with islamist groups. they tolerate it (for the moment) for convienence but at the same time attack their terrorist factions. without the oil trade, the arabs would be nothing, still be living in tents with their camels. they need interaction with the outside world too, particulalry the west. they certainly wouldnt be able to fund islamists like IS, Hamas, etc etc and hunt their islamist goals.
    I think the Arabs would happily go back to living in tents. But you see, that does not fit in with the Western Ideals.

    We have made all these glorious products, created such wonderful technologies but if one day we wake up and find everything disappeared, then we would be lost. The Arabs, on the other hand, will simply go back to doing what they were doing before.

    You do not seem to understand, or are unwilling to understand the psyche of the Arabs and those you term "Islamists" in general. You make the common mistake of thinking they want your "Western products" and "Western lifestyle". The fact is that they merely see it as a convenience whilst we see it as a way of life.

    Believe me or not, history will mark my words that this will end in either two ways:

    a) The establishment of a pan-Arab/North African Islamic State including the destruction of the State of Israel within the next 30-40 years (Conservative timeline).

    b) The complete wipe out of those who threaten us (due to our interference) resulting in us becoming worse than those we label "terrorists" and shedding what we constitute to be a "human". The exact same notion, ideal or concept that we say that we are fighting for.


    Either way, it will not end well for us, if we continue to interfere. Obama et al are at a loss as to the strategy that they should implement. Whilst they dither, the threat looms larger and grows day by day. The advent of social media and our own weapons creates an ironic situation where our own technologies are used against us.


    In fact, what would lead to the downfall of Western "civilisation" is not IS or any other terrorist group but Western Technology, Western concepts, Western ideals and Western notions.

    The West, in their quest to "conquer" the world, militarily and economically, will destroy themselves.

    The West's Achilles heel are themselves.



    I have seemed to have trailed onto talking about Islamists in general and for that I apologise. Shall we go back to the topic at hand?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    And there we have it. Our imposition, our notion, our ideal of what we feel constitutes a "human being".
    'Our' being of the human race. if you dont belong to that, theres nothing i can say further to you on this

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Why are Islamists not imposing Islam in the UK or America? They've been around for decades. Surely, we should be living in an Islamic State by now, no?
    because they dont have the military ability anymore to do so.


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    To destroy, or completely wipe out those whom you consider to be a threat would entail you to lose your humanity, the exact concept you accuse the Islamists of lacking.
    id be quite happy if all islamists and therefore their twisted ideology was to eradicated. we would have a lot less terrorism, murder and sectarian conflict in the world. humanity would benefit ultimatly


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    I only gave the one analogy so I can't have confused the "analagies (sic)". Regardless, the host body is rejecting the organ transplantation.
    yes, whatever :rolleyes:

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    You seem to not be living in reality. You seem to not understand that short of establishing another empire, we can only rely on ourself. We cannot rely on our "enemies, allies or even friends". When the going gets rough, we will be alone in the world and we need to make sure that we make decisions which are best for our country, and not simply because our puppet master tells us.
    we are not relying on anyone. we are simply dealing with threats as and when they arise - thats all any major nation has ever done post empire. the muslim world is the one run by 'puppet masters' ie fighting the arabs islamist agendas on their behalf. makes me laugh to think muslims of pakistani, somali and even english heritage are summoned to the middle east, to shoot people and be shot at , at their arab masters behest. it the definition of moronic. hangover of the arab empire - someone should tell them that was supposed to have ended 600 years ago....

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    I think the Arabs would happily go back to living in tents. But you see, that does not fit in with the Western Ideals.
    so why dont they, tents arnt expensive. why do majority of arabs live in western styled cities wearing western clothes and make their livings in western styled economies? :hmmmm:

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    We have made all these glorious products, created such wonderful technologies but if one day we wake up and find everything disappeared, then we would be lost. The Arabs, on the other hand, will simply go back to doing what they were doing before.
    what , killing each other and trying to steal their neighbours lands? they actually never stopped acting like that


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    You do not seem to understand, or are unwilling to understand the psyche of the Arabs and those you term "Islamists" in general. You make the common mistake of thinking they want your "Western products" and "Western lifestyle". The fact is that they merely see it as a convenience whilst we see it as a way of life.
    its a convenience that some have lived for a whole generation. Western culture to at least some extent has become the default - we use their calendar, their economic system , a lot of their legal system, their financial system, their education system, their technology, their media, noone seems bothered about changing that ( apart from the islamists themselves that is) i suppose youd put that down to jealousy.



    the only reason arabs have an issue with israel is becuase they are jewish and islamist propagnada of 13000 years is that 'no muslims should live under jewish rule'


    (Original post by tsr1269)

    Believe me or not, history will mark my words that this will end in either two ways:

    a) The establishment of a pan-Arab/North African Islamic State including the destruction of the State of Israel within the next 30-40 years (Conservative timeline).
    i doubt it


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    b) The complete wipe out of those who threaten us (due to our interference) resulting in us becoming worse than those we label "terrorists" and shedding what we constitute to be a "human". The exact same notion, ideal or concept that we say that we are fighting for.
    more likely .
    but even so theres a 3rd much more likely outcome, in three simultaneous realities -



    A. israel will fully colonise WB and gaza therby forming a complete jewish state. it will be many times more prosperous than the surroinding arab statrs and millions will flock into it for a better life ( jsut as millions of muslims have fled the islamic world to live in the West). Terrorism will still continue there, but the israelis will jsut accept it as a sacrifice they have to make for having their own land, amoung islamic peoples.

    B. At the same time the world, western and eastern bloc will unite on their one common issue, to defeat islamsit terrorism. slowly the uSA will withdraw alliegance form the arab states and move toward thawing relations with iran ( and oil trade) . Sunni islamist groups who already hated usa will hate them even more becuase they fear favourtism toward shias, screwing them over in the continuation of the 1300 year old islamic war.

    C. you will continue to post more anti Western rhetoric and noone will really care. or possibly D- there is a sudden law change in this country and you are arressted for incitement to promotion islamist activity


    (Original post by tsr1269)

    Either way, it will not end well for us, if we continue to interfere. Obama et al are at a loss as to the strategy that they should implement. Whilst they dither, the threat looms larger and grows day by day. The advent of social media and our own weapons creates an ironic situation where our own technologies are used against us.
    'we' will 'interfere' so long as there are islamists that attack the non-islamic world and its values, and stains the world with hateful islamist ideology. The non islamic world has been around a lot longer than islam, it has been more successful and more expansive, so islamists will never conquer it. But i guess they have nothing better to do than try. shows the waste of time of islamist ideology and the worthlessness of their lives. The USA have no cold war to worry about these days, their spend on the war on terrorism is tiny in comparision

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    In fact, what would lead to the downfall of Western "civilisation" is not IS or any other terrorist group but Western Technology, Western concepts, Western ideals and Western notions.

    The West, in their quest to "conquer" the world, militarily and economically, will destroy themselves.

    The West's Achilles heel are themselves.
    maybe. so what ?

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    I have seemed to have trailed onto talking about Islamists in general and for that I apologise. Shall we go back to the topic at hand?
    islamists are the source of all current problems in palestine, we have neevr left the topic. but the issue of islamist ideology is bigger than jsut terrorism in gaza
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    'Our' being of the human race. if you dont belong to that, theres nothing i can say further to you on this
    "Our" meaning "West", not humans as a whole. If you want a practical example, go and ask an Amazonian tribe what "human rights" are and he'll just grunt at you?

    The guy is clearly human but he doesn't know what "human rights" are. What a shocker! :rolleyes:

    because they dont have the military ability anymore to do so.
    So why aren't we seeing the "natives" being massacred by the Muslims if every one of the Islamists is like IS?

    id be quite happy if all islamists and therefore their twisted ideology was to eradicated. we would have a lot less terrorism, murder and sectarian conflict in the world. humanity would benefit ultimatly
    See. You yourself don't believe in your own ideals, concepts and notions of what the human race should be.

    yes, whatever :rolleyes:
    So you don't believe the host body (Arabia/North Africa) is able to reject the healthy non-compatible organ (democracy, HK) which is under attack by the antibodies (IS et al)?

    we are not relying on anyone. we are simply dealing with threats as and when they arise - thats all any major nation has ever done post empire. the muslim world is the one run by 'puppet masters' ie fighting the arabs islamist agendas on their behalf. makes me laugh to think muslims of pakistani, somali and even english heritage are summoned to the middle east, to shoot people and be shot at , at their arab masters behest. it the definition of moronic. hangover of the arab empire - someone should tell them that was supposed to have ended 600 years ago....
    If we are not "relying on anyone", as you erroneously claim, what are we doing apart from bombing IS?

    so why dont they, tents arnt expensive. why do majority of arabs live in western styled cities wearing western clothes and make their livings in western styled economies? :hmmmm:
    Because victory is even sweeter when the guy you despise thinks he's your friend whilst you slowly push the knife deeper into his back. It's about the struggle for power as well as leverage. A handshake and a knife in the other.

    How do you think we are doing trade with these despots in Arabia/North Africa? Do you think we would willingly sell them our armoury to only be used against us?

    No. It's because they have a lot invested in our country and if they were to suddenly pull that, it would spectacularly come crashing down around our ears.

    what , killing each other and trying to steal their neighbours lands? they actually never stopped acting like that
    And how is that any of our problem?

    its a convenience that some have lived for a whole generation. Western culture to at least some extent has become the default - we use their calendar, their economic system , a lot of their legal system, their financial system, their education system, their technology, their media, noone seems bothered about changing that ( apart from the islamists themselves that is) i suppose youd put that down to jealousy.
    Do you actually think the Arabs give a **** about technology? You do realise that they are just the people with the money making more money? Do you not realise that they employ white foreigners to handle their own affairs whilst they kick back and relax in their more leisurely Arabian heritage activities?

    the only reason arabs have an issue with israel is becuase they are jewish and islamist propagnada of 13000 years is that 'no muslims should live under jewish rule'
    The Arabs have a problem with the Settler State because it is a Settler State. It was brought about through mass illegal immigration and terrorism.

    i doubt it
    Then you are living in denial...

    more likely .
    but even so theres a 3rd much more likely outcome, in three simultaneous realities -
    This should be interesting.

    A. israel will fully colonise WB and gaza therby forming a complete jewish state. it will be many times more prosperous than the surroinding arab statrs and millions will flock into it for a better life ( jsut as millions of muslims have fled the islamic world to live in the West). Terrorism will still continue there, but the israelis will jsut accept it as a sacrifice they have to make for having their own land, amoung islamic peoples.
    Absolutely un-****ing likely. Any move to appropiate the territory of WB will meet the stiff rebuttal and swift condemnation from the international community. In addition to that, Abbas is seeking Palestinian statehood thus securing the 1967 borders meaning that unless the SS moves against the Wb in a year or two, they will forever "lose" that land (not that it was theirs anyway).

    B. At the same time the world, western and eastern bloc will unite on their one common issue, to defeat islamsit terrorism. slowly the uSA will withdraw alliegance form the arab states and move toward thawing relations with iran ( and oil trade) . Sunni islamist groups who already hated usa will hate them even more becuase they fear favourtism toward shias, screwing them over in the continuation of the 1300 year old islamic war.
    Again, even more unlikely. Do you make allies with Sunni's or Shias? Well, let's see, 400 million shia vs 1.2 bn Sunni's. It's a ****ing no-brainer.

    C. you will continue to post more anti Western rhetoric and noone will really care. or possibly D- there is a sudden law change in this country and you are arressted for incitement to promotion islamist activity
    It's saddening to note that you would stifle your belief that there should be freedom of speech...

    'we' will 'interfere' so long as there are islamists that attack the non-islamic world and its values, and stains the world with hateful islamist ideology. The non islamic world has been around a lot longer than islam, it has been more successful and more expansive, so islamists will never conquer it. But i guess they have nothing better to do than try. shows the waste of time of islamist ideology and the worthlessness of their lives. The USA have no cold war to worry about these days, their spend on the war on terrorism is tiny in comparision
    Do you even know where Obama was today to make such foolish statements such as this? Putin's causing havoc in Russia, the Chinese are gearing up in the SCS, the Iranians are being two-face about their programme, Ebola is spreading like wildfire, there is an atrocity occurring in Syria, the Eurozone is in a crisis and there are mass murders and an unsafe security situation in South America.

    Oh, and IS is beheading people...

    maybe. so what ?
    There is no "win" for you. History will record the West as losers, regardless of whether they wipe out IS or not.

    islamists are the source of all current problems in palestine, we have neevr left the topic. but the issue of islamist ideology is bigger than jsut terrorism in gaza
    :facepalm:
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "Our" meaning "West", not humans as a whole. If you want a practical example, go and ask an Amazonian tribe what "human rights" are and he'll just grunt at you?

    The guy is clearly human but he doesn't know what "human rights" are. What a shocker! :rolleyes:
    even the most primitive tribsmen you can think of doesnt behead people because they refuse to accept his own weird beliefs. human morality has evolved beyond the primitive in modern times ( in most cases) so it is human morality as of today. We cannot go backward as ISIS and other islamists wish.

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "

    So why aren't we seeing the "natives" being massacred by the Muslims if every one of the Islamists is like IS?
    the natives who are of 'acceptable islamic background' accroding to t he islamists do not get massacred. its only non muslims, people who refuse to convert, and muslims of 'unnacceptable sects' that get killed :rolleyes:

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "
    See. You yourself don't believe in your own ideals, concepts and notions of what the human race should be.
    of course i do


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "
    So you don't believe the host body (Arabia/North Africa) is able to reject the healthy non-compatible organ (democracy, HK) which is under attack by the antibodies (IS et al)?
    please ask normal questions. this is something a pot head might ask.


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "
    If we are not "relying on anyone", as you erroneously claim, what are we doing apart from bombing IS?
    what else should we do?

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "


    Because victory is even sweeter when the guy you despise thinks he's your friend whilst you slowly push the knife deeper into his back. It's about the struggle for power as well as leverage. A handshake and a knife in the other.
    charming

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    How do you think we are doing trade with these despots in Arabia/North Africa? Do you think we would willingly sell them our armoury to only be used against us?
    we cant control where our weapons end up, we can only guess. in theory all the weapons the west sell to saudi and qatar can end up in ISIS hands

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "

    No. It's because they have a lot invested in our country and if they were to suddenly pull that, it would spectacularly come crashing down around our ears.
    arab investment in our country is miniscule compared to europe, USA, Japan even China. if the ties were completly severed , the arab states would completly collapse, we would be fine, simply buy our oil elsewhere. what have arab states learnt to do in all this time except pedddle oil? im sure iran would be happy.


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "

    And how is that any of our problem?
    if left to it, they could eventually reach our borders ( as they once tried in the past) would you put it past them again?
    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "

    Do you actually think the Arabs give a **** about technology?
    yes, they all use electricity do they not? running water? modern construction techniques? fighter jets? where did these innovations come from do you think, the quran? Do you realise you are currently using the internet. what would you do with your day without it.

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "
    You do realise that they are just the people with the money making more money? Do you not realise that they employ white foreigners to handle their own affairs whilst they kick back and relax in their more leisurely Arabian heritage activities?
    like what, camel racing , public lashings? more likely their past times too are racing european made sports cars and watching european football teams.


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "
    The Arabs have a problem with the Settler State because it is a Settler State. It was brought about through mass illegal immigration and terrorism.
    so were most of the arab states. all you are saying is the arabs are greedy. history tells us that islamic leaders all tried to conquer the lands that was jews homeland, so this maybe true . but it wont stop the resolve of the israelis to maintain the jewish homeland.

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    Then you are living in denial...
    look in the mirror



    (Original post by tsr1269)

    Absolutely un-****ing likely. Any move to appropiate the territory of WB will meet the stiff rebuttal and swift condemnation from the international community.
    and what?
    (Original post by tsr1269)

    In addition to that, Abbas is seeking Palestinian statehood thus securing the 1967 borders meaning that unless the SS moves against the Wb in a year or two, they will forever "lose" that land (not that it was theirs anyway).
    the world (entire) will never accept such a statehood while islamists operate (which youd expect will be a constant in the islamic world)

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    Again, even more unlikely. Do you make allies with Sunni's or Shias? Well, let's see, 400 million shia vs 1.2 bn Sunni's. It's a ****ing no-brainer.
    the shia seem to be holding their own, got rid of saddam, got rid of taleban, consolidating syria, got usa stepping in vs ISIS. and we in the west often go with the underdog


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    It's saddening to note that you would stifle your belief that there should be freedom of speech...
    to preach hatred and islamist agendas should be a criminal offense.

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    Do you even know where Obama was today to make such foolish statements such as this? Putin's causing havoc in Russia, the Chinese are gearing up in the SCS, the Iranians are being two-face about their programme, Ebola is spreading like wildfire, there is an atrocity occurring in Syria, the Eurozone is in a crisis and there are mass murders and an unsafe security situation in South America.

    Oh, and IS is beheading people...
    obviously ISIS is not a world beating force, its jsut another abhorrent bunch of slimy islamists fighting the arabs proxy wars. but who do you think USA would rather fight right now - a bunch of idiots with primitive 8th century mindsets, or a 21st century armed superpower (russia, China etc) see if even you can work this one out :hmmmm:


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    There is no "win" for you. History will record the West as losers, regardless of whether they wipe out IS or not.
    eventually maybe, but long after were gone, and many hundreds of generations after that too. islamsits will be losers long before that. the new world order coming is from the east, china india etc . you are inconsequential
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    (Original post by Malorys ballsack)
    Strawman.

    Israel != Judaism.

    Muslim + Israel = Judaism.

    When Muslims speak about Israel they mean Jews. You must not speak to many Muslims or have any understanding of the middle east if you think otherwise.
    False.

    Israel is 20% Muslim. You have just denied their existence.

    I am Muslim, yet I speak of Israel as a state. I don't hate Jew's, I hate Zionism. Muslim's hate Zionist, just like we all hate Al Qaeda or ISIS.

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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    even the most primitive tribsmen you can think of doesnt behead people because they refuse to accept his own weird beliefs. human morality has evolved beyond the primitive in modern times ( in most cases) so it is human morality as of today. We cannot go backward as ISIS and other islamists wish.
    No, they just shoot arrows and spears at you in order for you to go away and leave them alone.

    Who even decides what is moral or not? You? Your father? Perhaps your mother?:rolleyes:

    the natives who are of 'acceptable islamic background' accroding to t he islamists do not get massacred. its only non muslims, people who refuse to convert, and muslims of 'unnacceptable sects' that get killed :rolleyes:
    Could you tell me of the names of the non-Muslims, in the UK and America, who are being "massacred by Islamists"?

    of course i do
    Okay. Let me put it out there:

    MEING believes in oppression, subjugation and committing genocide (oh, especially genocide)...

    please ask normal questions. this is something a pot head might ask.
    I'll just chalk that up as a conceding of the argument in question. Oh my, we are making progress...

    what else should we do?
    Leave them alone?

    charming
    Perhaps you should return the compliment. Oh wait! :rolleyes:

    we cant control where our weapons end up, we can only guess. in theory all the weapons the west sell to saudi and qatar can end up in ISIS hands
    An bizarre situation! The same weapons that we supply to these despots are the same weapons which are being used to kill our own countrymen.

    arab investment in our country is miniscule compared to europe, USA, Japan even China. if the ties were completly severed , the arab states would completly collapse, we would be fine, simply buy our oil elsewhere. what have arab states learnt to do in all this time except pedddle oil? im sure iran would be happy.
    You keep mentioning Iran as if Iran will come on board. You ignore the millions, no, the billions that the Saudi's, the Qatarai's, the UAE have ploughed into the Square Mile.

    You don't seem to understand the fact that most of the UK's growth is driven by foreign investment, especially by countries who are "hostile" towards our ideology and beliefs.

    Take Russia. Take China. Take Arabia. In fact, take parts of Europe who would love a slice of those "ill-gotten gains" ploughed into their countries.

    [QUOTE]if left to it, they could eventually reach our borders ( as they once tried in the past) would you put it past them again?

    Sign a peace treaty with them? If they break it, we have justification to massacre them.

    yes, they all use electricity do they not? running water? modern construction techniques? fighter jets? where did these innovations come from do you think, the quran? Do you realise you are currently using the internet. what would you do with your day without it.
    There is a common theme running through this discussion which stems from the fact that you do not seem to understand:

    If the Arabs wake up tomorrow and find all technology has disappeared, would they go back to their lifestyle?

    If we wake up tomorrow and find all technology has disappeared, what would we do?


    like what, camel racing , public lashings? more likely their past times too are racing european made sports cars and watching european football teams.
    What do you not get about "investment"? They are taking the everyday Joe's money from him and spending it on a car which probably costs more than his house.

    They are making money off their money. They are bleeding you dry. How do you think the ****ing economy works? Those at the top, those that have "made it", rip off the small everyday people like you, your father and your mother.

    Yet, you continue to support them. :rolleyes:

    so were most of the arab states. all you are saying is the arabs are greedy. history tells us that islamic leaders all tried to conquer the lands that was jews homeland, so this maybe true . but it wont stop the resolve of the israelis to maintain the jewish homeland.
    Correction: The Muslims conquered the lands that were the "Canaanite homelands"...

    look in the mirror
    Now you are just projecting...

    and what?
    For a country which craves legitimacy, this would be like shooting yourself in the head.

    the world (entire) will never accept such a statehood while islamists operate (which youd expect will be a constant in the islamic world)
    Oh, you'd be surprised by the "movement" nations make when the SS chooses to engage in such actions. The Palestinians have to do nothing except resist. The SS will soon start to implode...

    the shia seem to be holding their own, got rid of saddam, got rid of taleban, consolidating syria, got usa stepping in vs ISIS. and we in the west often go with the underdog
    Ironic then the fact that had Saddam been in power, he would have crushed IS? :rolleyes:

    to preach hatred and islamist agendas should be a criminal offense.
    Stifling freedom of speech? Isn't that what one accuses IS of doing? Two peas in a pod.

    Pot, meet kettle...

    obviously ISIS is not a world beating force, its jsut another abhorrent bunch of slimy islamists fighting the arabs proxy wars. but who do you think USA would rather fight right now - a bunch of idiots with primitive 8th century mindsets, or a 21st century armed superpower (russia, China etc) see if even you can work this one out :hmmmm:
    Is a "superpower" really a superpower if it picks the easy fights? Well done! You are trashing your own arguments...

    eventually maybe, but long after were gone, and many hundreds of generations after that too. islamsits will be losers long before that. the new world order coming is from the east, china india etc . you are inconsequential
    Actually, unless we unshackle ourselves from what we perceive to be our humanity and fight IS, we risk fading into obscurity.

    You are just coming out with cliched sayings, offering no analysis, just rhetoric and expecting people to take your word. Put some substance in your arguments, boy!
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    No, they just shoot arrows and spears at you in order for you to go away and leave them alone.


    so its you who decides whats moral, or your islamist overlord that tells you what to think perhaps? so when are you planning to jump on a plane to go go kiss his ass like the other members of isis. hamas etc. 70%+ of the world agrees with my version of human morality, not your.

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    Could you tell me of the names of the non-Muslims, in the UK and America, who are being "massacred by Islamists"?


    how on earth could i name all of them one by one einstein

    isis are aready massacreing yazidis, christians etc. hamas are trying to massacre jews, but theyre military ability is limited to killing hitch-hiking kids. so they actually end up getting more palestinians killed than jews.

    (Original post by tsr1269)


    An bizarre situation! The same weapons that we supply to these despots are the same weapons which are being used to kill our own countrymen.
    not entirely the same. i dont see isis flying F16s or F22 raptors, do they even have the brains to turn one on?


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    You keep mentioning Iran as if Iran will come on board. You ignore the millions, no, the billions that the Saudi's, the Qatarai's, the UAE have ploughed into the Square Mile.
    the biggest investors in the City are european and american banks, followed by japanese, soon too be overtaken by chinese. arabs arnt even on the map You probably refer to the nice london properties in kensington arabs buy. yes,well if they sold up and took their money - guess what, a russian would step in and buy the lot in 2 minutes. rich arabs spend most of their time away form islamic countries, show what they think of their muslim minions lol

    (Original post by tsr1269)


    You don't seem to understand the fact that most of the UK's growth is driven by foreign investment, especially by countries who are "hostile" towards our ideology and beliefs.
    again see above, then take a degree in economics ( with some extra tution)


    .


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Sign a peace treaty with them? If they break it, we have justification to massacre them.
    why sign any treaty with them, jsut bomb the crap out of them where was the treaty with bin laden? hows he doing these days

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    There is a common theme running through this discussion which stems from the fact that you do not seem to understand:

    If the Arabs wake up tomorrow and find all technology has disappeared, would they go back to their lifestyle?
    no - they would all try to move to europe/ america permanently, jsut like most of the muslim world does even now.


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    If we wake up tomorrow and find all technology has disappeared, what would we do?

    invent new technology :rolleyes:

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    What do you not get about "investment"? They are taking the everyday Joe's money from him and spending it on a car which probably costs more than his house.

    They are making money off their money. They are bleeding you dry. How do you think the ****ing economy works? Those at the top, those that have "made it", rip off the small everyday people like you,

    Yet, you continue to support them. :rolleyes:
    we are not supporting any arab - arabs economy is reliant on the west and china, not the otherway round as we have jsut established. we take their money thank you very much, if they took it away noone would be bothered, but they wont. the arabs have no economy than oil (which the europeans setup for them lol) . which is more likely to 'vanish' than the 'technology' you try and talk about.



    its only the muslims that support arabs if they are ripping off any parents, its yours ( again showing the arab empire is live and well, as is their slave empire) muslims send their zakat, contributions, 'islamic charity' donations and finally their familys life savings to ISIS etc like this laughable moron tried to http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-offences.html is he one of your relations perhaps, better check your savings account.


    shows that its the muslims like yourself that are the well trained puppets, and gullible weak minded muslims are the perfect targets for islamists to milk their cash and recruit as cannon fodder in syria and iraq.

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Correction: The Muslims conquered the lands that were the "Canaanite homelands"...
    cannanittes dont exist, they didnt exist when the arabs got there. the jews did and still had their claim. besides which the british conquered mecca which was turkish held, and originally pagan homeland. so im glad you beleive that muslims should be removed from mecca on the same basis you dont want jews in jerusalem, so presumably you are shifting all your family out as we speak, or are you a hypocrite




    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Ironic then the fact that had Saddam been in power, he would have crushed IS?
    ISIS hierachy is full many of saddams old generals - again theres no end to your ignorance is there lol


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Is a "superpower" really a superpower if it picks the easy fights? Well done! You are trashing your own arguments...
    islamists pick fights all over the place, its not my fault they are natural cowards, only good for killing civilians and executing journalists and aid workers. they are wannabe superpowers, they jsut dont have the brains or capability to become.

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Actually, unless we unshackle ourselves from what we perceive to be our humanity and fight IS, we risk fading into obscurity.
    of course we are :rolleyes:

    (Original post by tsr1269)

    You are just coming out with cliched sayings, offering no analysis, just rhetoric and expecting people to take your word. Put some substance in your arguments, boy!
    my word doesnt have to be taken, its happens to be shared common consensus in the world. at least my ideas are not the regurgitated rubbished shoved into your mouth by your islamist. ive given you plenty of opportunity to make some valid responses, and all you can do is show the force-fed bull that islamists impregnate online into the tiny minds of muslim youth worldwide. so you arnt worth even replying to on these subjects, you are just a little puppet, if i was going to discuss these topics id need to speak with the organ grinder. off you trot.
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    The problems in Gaza are minor compared to current global issues. Our world leaders who represent us and our concerns should put it to one side or forget it altogether

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by The Right)
    The problems in Gaza are minor compared to current global issues. Our world leaders who represent us and our concerns should put it to one side or forget it altogether

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    What's the rest of the world and bigger problems got to do with the matter at hand? This is a thread about Israel/Palestine, not Israel/Palestine vs other issues in the world.
 
 
 
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