Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Midlander
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#5721
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#5721
(Original post by King Kebab)
Self determination

An economy more evenly spread (throughout Scotland) I hope rather than an economy based on the city of London

I feel being a smaller country would mean less intervention in foreign wars

That's three quick reasons which I think would be an advantage to Scotland
Except it wouldn't be more evenly spread. Wealth is concentrated primarily in Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow and Scotland's sparse geography means it will be hard to redress the balance regardless of government.


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VladThe1mpaler
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#5722
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#5722
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
The Children's comic produced there - The Beano - does seem to go in for homophobia (walter the softie is given a very hard time which i think is quite bad for children to read).
Rubbish! The only homophobes are the people who think someone is gay just because they have feminine character traits.

The PC police love to ruin things. Might as well ban the whole comic since it encourages kids to play tricks on their parents and misbehave. While we are at it we should change fat boab from oor wullie to "big boab" because it is not nice to call people fat.
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King Kebab
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#5723
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#5723
(Original post by Midlander)
Except it wouldn't be more evenly spread. Wealth is concentrated primarily in Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow and Scotland's sparse geography means it will be hard to redress the balance regardless of government.


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I think it would be more easily spread than it currently is in an independent Scotland. Tourism in the North. There is a lot of wealth from farmland as well in the borders area too.
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MatureStudent36
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#5724
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#5724
(Original post by King Kebab)
Self determination

An economy more evenly spread (throughout Scotland) I hope rather than an economy based on the city of London

I feel being a smaller country would mean less intervention in foreign wars

That's three quick reasons which I think would be an advantage to Scotland
There's a reason why London is so economically vibrant and its bit because the givernment spends more on it. Its more geographical.

https://www.sussex.ac.uk/webteam/gat...ham.pdf&site=2

In fact, a yes vote is more likely to screw our economy over.



Less involvement in foreign wars. You may wish to see where countries like Norway and Denmark have been operating recently. Both were active in Iraq. Both are currently in Afghanistan and both were involved in air strikes in Libya. Lets not forget the involvement of Ireland and I even ad and Sweden in those 'foreign wars'. Neither should we forget it was a Scottish PM and his Scottish Chancellor that got us involved in two of the bigger ones. So I'm a little confused as to how that wouldn't happen.

We already self determine. We self determined ten percent of our MPs at Westminster from the SNP.
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flugelr
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#5725
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#5725
(Original post by King Kebab)
Self determination
How would any of those currency options give us self determination in any meaningful way?

Even if we create and use a brand new currency, given that we are bordered by the GBP on one side and the Euro on the other, our entire monetary policy will be heavily influenced by the decisions taken by our larger neighbours.

That isn't full self determination, it is self determination to a degree. Currently, as part of the UK, we enjoy a very strong currency that we can control. Seems like a good deal to me.

(Original post by King Kebab)
An economy more evenly spread (throughout Scotland) I hope rather than an economy based on the city of London
The Scottish economy is heavily dependant on a few sectors such as energy (which of course is highly volatile) and public services. I wouldn't say that our economy is more spread out than the UK's though, from my perspective it looks like most things are in the central belt.

Furthermore, while I agree that the UK is far too "London-centric", I think that we should challenge that. Running away won't solve the problem.

(Original post by King Kebab)
I feel being a smaller country would mean less intervention in foreign wars
Really? Let me ask you a question; Over the past decade, how many of the 28 EU member states, 5 EU candidate states (Iceland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Turkey), EU applicant states (Albania) or states closely connected to the EU (Norway and Switzerland) have deployed their forces on operations - not including UN peacekeeping - overseas?

The answer: 26 EU states, 4 EU candidate states, Albania, Norway and Switzerland have all deployed soldiers on operations abroad. If we include UN peacekeeping then only one country on that list - Cyprus - has not deployed troops on operations overseas.

Interestingly, all of the Nordic nations that the SNP seem so obsessed with have deployed troops to Iraq or Afghanistan.

What exactly makes you think that Scotland will not be deploying troops overseas?
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Smack
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#5726
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#5726
(Original post by King Kebab)
I think it would be more easily spread than it currently is in an independent Scotland.
I don't see how you could come to that conclusion.
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Midlander
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#5727
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#5727
(Original post by King Kebab)
I think it would be more easily spread than it currently is in an independent Scotland. Tourism in the North. There is a lot of wealth from farmland as well in the borders area too.
So? Those things can be profited from now.


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cowsforsale
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#5728
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#5728
Ladbrokes: Scotland 1/100 to enter currency union - 50/1 not to

Ladbrokes press release

Scotland certs for currency union

Scotland are a racing certainty to form a currency union should they vote 'yes' to independence, according to Ladbrokes.

The book is now open on the prospects of the formation of the union, should Scotland break away from the rest of the UK and it's a near-certainty at 1/100 that they keep sterling, with 50/1 the price that any other currency, including the Euro, is used.

For context, Scotland are 50/1 to win the upcoming 6 Nations while 1/100 is the price Scotland would be to beat San Marino in an international football match.

Alex Donohue of Ladbrokes said: "It's about as uncompetitive as a betting contest can be. Punters would win a penny for ever pound staked on an independent Scotland sticking with sterling."
So, which one did Mr Carney favour?

He did not say directly. But given the words, “necessary foundations for a durable union”, it seems that he assumes the best option is for the Bank to become a supranational institution.

In other words, Mr Carney is closer to the position of the Scottish Government. But he was careful not to say this too explicitly.
Interesting..
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cowsforsale
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#5729
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#5729
But in a small nation, forced to live from a smaller tax base, there is more of a limit to how big state institutions can grow. Monitoring becomes more efficient, it is harder to obfuscate, so there is more transparency and accountability, and less waste. Change is easier to implement, making a nation flexible, dynamic and competitive. With fewer people, there is less of a wealth gap between those at the top and the bottom.

The evidence of history is that the free-est countries with the widest dispersal of power have always been the most prosperous and innovative.
So back to Scotland.

It now has the opportunity to enact the same legislation, taxation and regulation that other top ten countries on that list employ, following, say, the blueprint of Singapore. It already has a rich tradition in trade, finance and banking.

It has the oil.

And, with just five million people, it is small.

It has all the ingredients to be the richest country on earth – on a per capita basis. It has ‘the triple’. I can think of no other nation in the world with such a wonderful opportunity.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...h-9096120.html
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Quady
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#5730
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#5730
(Original post by flugelr)
A brand new currency being used by a small country bordering two of the most economically powerful areas in the world - the UK (GBP) and the Eurozone (Euro) - will be independent in name only.
Perhaps if the Euro and Sterling move in union, but they won't/won't.
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MatureStudent36
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#5731
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#5731
Kind of disproves the myth that the media is one sided.

But this seems to be a re hash of SNP claims.

If we'd be that rich, the Southe easy would be richer if it cast aside the rest of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I'd be significantly richer if I didn't have to support others with a welfare system and NHS.
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L i b
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#5732
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#5732
(Original post by cowsforsale)
Interesting..
Not really. One's a (possibly mocked up) press release, showing an ignorance of the distinction between using Sterling and a currency union. The other is the nationalists demonstrating their best bunker mentality.

Carney was careful not to make political judgements. He spelled out both advantages and risks of currency unions. He noted that it would entirely depend on the agreement of the UK Government, which seems unlikely to be given.

Somehow I don't imagine the Scottish Government's fiscal commission reported much on the risks.
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Good bloke
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#5733
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#5733
(Original post by cowsforsale)
Interesting..
Nothing has changed, other than the SNP having to spin Carney's words.

It is clear (and has been to anyone with a modicum of sense) that:

The BoE will work to whatever goals its political masters give it.

A decision on currency union is a political one.

As has been learned from the euro, a currency union can only work well with either political union (as we have now, but which the Scots would be giving up) or with one state being in full command of the currency (rather like some countries' use of the US dollar, leaving the Scots with no influence, and certainly nothing approaching control, on a major factor in their economic wellbeing).

Given that the Scottish economy would be so heavily exposed to the oil and gas market ups and downs, the two economies will eventually move apart significantly, meaning that British (UK) requirements for the currency would then differ significantly from Scottish ones, to the disadvantage of Scotland.
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Midlander
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#5734
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#5734
(Original post by L i b)
Not really. One's a (possibly mocked up) press release, showing an ignorance of the distinction between using Sterling and a currency union. The other is the nationalists demonstrating their best bunker mentality.

Carney was careful not to make political judgements. He spelled out both advantages and risks of currency unions. He noted that it would entirely depend on the agreement of the UK Government, which seems unlikely to be given.

Somehow I don't imagine the Scottish Government's fiscal commission reported much on the risks.
That Westminster need to consent to it is great for the SNP-if they didn't get it they could continue blaming England for all their problems.


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MatureStudent36
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#5735
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#5735
(Original post by Midlander)
That Westminster need to consent to it is great for the SNP-if they didn't get it they could continue blaming England for all their problems.


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Nationalists need an enemy. If one doesn't exist. Make one up.
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Midlander
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#5736
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#5736
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Nationalists need an enemy. If one doesn't exist. Make one up.
'English people are great friends of Scotland-but they sometimes vote Tory' is how a Yes campaign newsletter shoved through my door put it.


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FinalMH
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#5737
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#5737
Why is it okay for Scotland to make demands and not the rUK ?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aa0305d6-8...siteedition=uk
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Good bloke
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#5738
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#5738
(Original post by FinalMH)
Why is it okay for Scotland to make demands and not the rUK ?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aa0305d6-8...siteedition=uk
The man's an idiot.

He says

You’ve got a negotiation where the UK government will want to persuade the Scottish representatives that they should take on a share of debt which is the legal liability of Her Majesty’s Treasury
while forgetting that he has a situation where territory that is legally an asset of the UK is required to allow a Scottish state to be viable.
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Old_Simon
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#5739
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#5739
The Scots latest hare brained scheme is to appoint a legal guardian for every child.
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MatureStudent36
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#5740
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#5740
(Original post by Midlander)
'English people are great friends of Scotland-but they sometimes vote Tory' is how a Yes campaign newsletter shoved through my door put it.


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Forgetting that 400,000 Scots voted Conservative.

This seems to be the problem with Scottish politics, only minority are actively involved in politics and they get very tribal.
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