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    (Original post by young_guns)
    I'm sure that's the narrative you tell yourself. Deep down, you hope that fighting terror causes more terror, whereas Hamas is actually less popular than ever before.

    Prior to the most recent Gaza conflict, Hamas' popularity was down to about 1/3rd of the Gaza population, and even less in West Bank. They had higher levels of support while Protective Edge was in play, but after the end of the conflict it seems they are even less popular than before it started. They see they have been subjected to a devastating war, and Hamas obtained no real concessions. They did it for nothing. The likely outcome of this conflict is that Hamas will be out of power within the year and the PA wil return to control of Gaza. In which case, Israel has played its cards well.

    But Israel has always played its cards well. Israel plays the ancient Mid East politics game better than the Arabs ever have.
    Absolutely nowhere has it been reported that Hamas' support has dropped after the latest conflict, every news outlet has reported quite the opposite.

    Israel always plays their cards well, they don't want to see an end to the hostilities. While hostilities are ongoing they can continue to quietly settle Palestinian land, safe in the knowledge that Palestine has no way of hurting them back and they know that besides a few quiet murmurs the international community will do absolutely nothing to stop them. Once a peace deal is in place, this changes.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Absolutely nowhere has it been reported that Hamas' support has dropped after the latest conflict, every news outlet has reported quite the opposite
    I suppose if all you consume is RT, you probably would miss out on serious analysis and news.

    Israel always plays their cards well, they don't want to see an end to the hostilities
    Show me proof that "Israel... don't want to see an end to hostilities". Proof or gtfo

    While hostilities are ongoing they can continue to quietly settle Palestinian land
    Oh yea, they've anounced a couple of thousand of extra acres to be settled. Less than one-tenth of one percent of the West Bank (and almost certainly as a Pavlovian punishment for the recent rocket attacks). One-tenth of one percent sounds like a really serious settlement programme
    Once a peace deal is in place, this changes
    The Palestinians were offered a superb peace deal in 2008. The Olmert peace deal offered them Israeli withdrawal from 94% of the West Bank, with all settlers moving into the largest settlement blocs in the remaining 6%, while the Palestinians would be compensated with an equal amount of land from within the 1967 borders. The Palestinians would also get sovereignty over the Jerusalem holy sites, an underground highway linking Gaza and West Bank, and no Israeli military presence in the Jordan Valley.

    Almost unbelievably, the Palestinians (so characteristically, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity) under Abu Mazen didn't even deign to respond to the offer because they thought they could get a better deal under the next President. In fact, they were ****ing idiots not to have broken down Olmert's door in a rush to accept.

    It's really shades of 1995, when the Hamas campaign of suicide bombings caused Rabin's successor Peres to lose the election and put Netanyahu in power, and basically scuttle any possibility of a serious peace deal. These Hamas *****, who have more than once destroyed the future of the Palestinians, are your heroes. Wow
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    I suppose if all you consume is RT, you probably would miss out on serious analysis and news.
    Why are you assuming all I consume is RT? Post your sources please.



    Show me proof that "Israel... don't want to see an end to hostilities". Proof or gtfo
    The proof is in Israeli policy towards Palestine.

    Oh yea, they've anounced a couple of thousand of extra acres to be settled. Less than one-tenth of one percent of the West Bank (and almost certainly as a Pavlovian punishment for the recent rocket attacks). One-tenth of one percent sounds like a really serious settlement programme
    Killing thousands of Palestinian civilians isn't punishment enough? Why are they trying to take any Palestinian land?

    The Palestinians were offered a superb peace deal in 2008. The Olmert peace deal offered them Israeli withdrawal from 94% of the West Bank, with all settlers moving into the largest settlement blocs in the remaining 6%, while the Palestinians would be compensated with an equal amount of land from within the 1967 borders. The Palestinians would also get sovereignty over the Jerusalem holy sites, an underground highway linking Gaza and West Bank, and no Israeli military presence in the Jordan Valley.

    Almost unbelievably, the Palestinians (so characteristically, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity) under Abu Mazen didn't even deign to respond to the offer because they thought they could get a better deal under the next President. In fact, they were ****ing idiots not to have broken down Olmert's door in a rush to accept.

    You may call it superb but Palestine once again saw its borders shrink, settlements remained so Palestine would still be divided and unconnected, Jerusalem remained under Israeli control, there was no right of return and so on.

    It's really shades of 1995, when the Hamas campaign of suicide bombings caused Rabin's successor Peres to lose the election and put Netanyahu in power, and basically scuttle any possibility of a serious peace deal. These Hamas c-nts, who have more than once destroyed the future of the Palestinians, are your heroes. Wow
    Hamas are my heroes? I have said absolutely nothing that even hints to Hamas being my heroes.
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    discuss
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    (Original post by Benjobox)
    discuss
    No, as it wouldn't work.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    No, as it wouldn't work.
    So what do you think should be done lol?
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    There already is a 2 state solution.

    jews have israel.

    muslims have the west bank and gaza
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    (Original post by samba)
    So what do you think should be done lol?
    One state solution with a right of return to all Palestinian refugees as well as monetary compensation paid to those who do not wish to return.

    We shall let democracy take it's course.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    One state solution with a right of return to all Palestinian refugees as well as monetary compensation paid to those who do not wish to return.

    We shall let democracy take it's course.
    And the Jews get turfed out and left at the mercy of Hamas (who would presumably govern a state of Palestine?)
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    (Original post by Benjobox)
    And the Jews get turfed out and left at the mercy of Hamas (who would presumably govern a state of Palestine?)
    Should the Palestinians win the elections, then it seems inevitable that many Settlers would leave.

    Given the fact that there are over 5 million refugees, I think we can reasonable conclude that the Palestinians will become the ruling power within just a few months of this new state having formed.
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    I was until I realised how little the Israeli government cares about human lives and that it will never work because of it. The only thing I can think of is a merging of both to form a new country but I can't see it hapenning any time soon so idk.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Should the Palestinians win the elections, then it seems inevitable that many Settlers would leave.

    Given the fact that there are over 5 million refugees, I think we can reasonable conclude that the Palestinians will become the ruling power within just a few months of this new state having formed.
    Settlers? The inhabitants of the Jewish State of Israel have been there for 65 odd years. Before them, the land was occupied by 'Palestinian' people for 400 odd years, who'd taken it from the Romans (who coined the term 'Palestine') and had in turn taken the land from the Jews.
    Were they settlers too?
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    Simple answer, No.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Benjobox)
    Settlers? The inhabitants of the Jewish State of Israel have been there for 65 odd years. Before them, the land was occupied by 'Palestinian' people for 400 odd years, who'd taken it from the Romans (who coined the term 'Palestine') and had in turn taken the land from the Jews.
    Were they settlers too?
    Mass illegally immigrated settlers which was facilitated through acts of terrorism by some Jews....
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    For some reason, you keep writing that it's getting very hard to derive anything from that in order to continue the discussion.

    Perhaps you could manage to string together a sentence next time?

    The first sentence doesn't make sense.

    As to whether I'd like to manage stringing together a sentence, the answer is not really. It's obviously not worth it when you open with a two state solution "wouldn't work" and then within two posts are saying "obviously the Palestinians would win an election, and the Israelis would be ****ed/leaving." That's obviously a working solution in your eyes, so continuing the conversation is absolutely pointless.

    It's akin to saying "can there be peace between Russia and Ukraine with a two state solution?" and you replying with "It wouldn't work, lets make them into one state and have elections."
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    (Original post by ohland)
    I was until I realised how little the Israeli government cares about human lives and that it will never work because of it. The only thing I can think of is a merging of both to form a new country but I can't see it hapenning any time soon so idk.
    Oh yes, that'd be marvellous wouldn't it. The Jews would soon be heavily outnumbered and Hamas would be 'elected' to govern the state. This would mean waving goodbye to liberal democracy, to gay rights, to women's rights and to religious freedoms.

    We'd have yet another Jew-hating terrorist-controlled Arab country to wage war on America.

    Oh it'd be bliss.
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    Yes as combining the two would never work most probable leading to a civil war torn wasteland. See as some have highlighted in this thread the pro-Palestinian side simple do not believe Israel has the right to exist and due to this attitude peace will not exist no matter what Israel's foreign policies are.
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    (Original post by littleangel9914)
    Yes as combining the two would never work most probable leading to a civil war torn wasteland. See as some have highlighted in this thread the pro-Palestinian side simple do not believe Israel has the right to exist and due to this attitude peace will not exist no matter what Israel's foreign policies are.
    Good point actually; the thread is less than one page old and pro Palestinians evidently have no interest in peace between the two sides and a solution where both can live there.
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    (Original post by samba)
    The first sentence doesn't make sense.

    As to whether I'd like to manage stringing together a sentence, the answer is not really. It's obviously not worth it when you open with a two state solution "wouldn't work" and then within two posts are saying "obviously the Palestinians would win an election, and the Israelis would be ****ed/leaving." That's obviously a working solution in your eyes, so continuing the conversation is absolutely pointless.

    It's akin to saying "can there be peace between Russia and Ukraine with a two state solution?" and you replying with "It wouldn't work, lets make them into one state and have elections."
    If democracy is the way to go, a one state solution is the best way to do it.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Mass illegally immigrated settlers which was facilitated through acts of terrorism by some Jews....
    Please elaborate. If we're going to attribute terrorism to one specific religion, I don't think it's Judaism..

    You clearly believe the occupants of Israel (the Jews) are 'settlers' but you haven't stated whether you'd term the Palestinian occupants for the 400 odd years up until 1948 'settlers' too.
 
 
 
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