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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Lol, are the one of you getting confused about which two of you the one is pretending to be?
    Conspiracy theory alert!

    Loool looks like my thread about' why are so many people left-wing' thread needs reviving!
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    (Original post by Pendulum3)
    We should have a State your Political Party thread.
    Permission to make that thread please ? :>
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    You think the UK housing market caused the global financial crash?
    Do you have difficulties with reading ?

    The policies adopted by Brown as Chancellor and PM increased our exposure and lead to high levels of personal borrowing

    UK government borrowing was not high by historical standards before the crash, although the level of structural deficit was concerning. However, to give them credit, New Labour were trying to modernise Britain's shockingly poor infrastructure and public facilities, including hospitals and schools.
    the infrastructure left that way by past Labour governments you mean ?

    people conveniently forget substantial sums were spent on the NHS estate under Thatcher and Major ( A lot of DGHs saw significant investment in the 1980s as estate rationalisation led to over due consolidation of services e.g. Dewsbury, Lincoln, Scunthorpe to name but 3 )

    it's odd that in Labour marginal constituencies hospitals had been renewed several times while in many solid labour constituencies it never quite reached the top of the list and was stuck in WW2 era Huts ( e.g. Pinderfields)

    The real shame was that they did this via the private sector which was hugely more expensive than it needed to be, just to keep it off the government lending books. (A policy now being restarted by Osborne, despite bitter criticism of it by him in opposition)
    Another child who does not understand how PFI works and swallowed the TUC line - the price paid for a PFI is not for the building and profit for the pFI provider

    a PFI contract pays for

    - Provision of the facility - whether new build or substantial refurb or a combination
    - Maintainance of the facility for the PFI term to 'as new' conditions

    it may also include the provision of other services

    the high costs of simple works in a PFI reflect the fact that the charge made when the works are done also includes the on costs for the remaining term of the PFI

    The property market is primarily inflated because of huge supply shortages, caused by the Thatcher and post-Thatcher drastic cut in new builds of social housing.
    again your naivety is stunning

    right to buy was part of changing LA owned/ managed housing from a general landlord to a provider of social housing

    social housing is housing for those with needs that cannot be met on the open market , not a source of cheap rents to bolster Labour votes as part of the dependency culture

    Property price inflation appears to be a favourite of all Tory governments as it is a vote winner in the middle class - they are now trying to restart another house price boom.
    house prices remain overvalued because of the easy lending encouraged by Brown which saw large multipliers and 100%+ mortgages as the norm .

    the biggest house price boom in living memory was under the Blair / Brown governments duie to Prudence's imprudence over controlling lending and multipliers

    the Banks are reluctant to lend for the following reasons

    1. insufficiently capitalised
    2. the effect of easy credit and Blair and Brown's promotion of BTL as a sure fire money maker ...
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    Permission to make that thread please ? :>
    Permission Granted. For a small sum of course. Joke Joke.
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    This song goes well with the topic, made by a friend.

    At the end of the day, its only Rizla, Police Officer!
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    (Original post by a729)
    Conspiracy theory alert!

    Loool looks like my thread about' why are so many people left-wing' thread needs reviving!
    Which one of yourselves will launch the thread?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    How do you reveal your intelligent Toryism? :cool:
    Feel free to read past threads that I have participated in. You can search them quite easily on this board.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Which one of yourselves will launch the thread?
    We are currently discussing phase 2 of our endgame.

    Its very complicated you see, we try our best to amuse our leftist friends on here as we find theyre quite reliant on the forum for heightening their self esteem

    We've even got a column in the daily socialist as we speak, slowly but surely converting the Fullofsurprises (Do you have a real name!?) of the world
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Which one of yourselves will launch the thread?
    Oh Please

    The thread was made by me like 2 weeks ago

    I'll try and revive it before you neg me with your multiple accounts!
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The Stalin thing is always drawn in as an example, but its really just confusing authoritarianism with fascism; fascism was a very particular type of phenomenon, which included the concept of rule by One Strong Man; a race theory as the dominant cultural norm; aggressive foreign expansion and oppression of the Left.

    Stalin and Mao for sure practised all kinds of ghastly authoritarian and cruelly oppressive policies, but Sovietism/State Communism had a different conceptual basis - they were not (publicly at least) practising a Racial Theory of Superiority and they did not (publicly) oppress the Left. Of course, I am not denying that fascistic elements - particularly the One Strong Leader and the use of state terror, etc, crept in.

    Of course, the other hallmark of fascism so far when it captured a state has been that the private sector (or at least, those parts of the private sector considered racially pure and owned by the right people) flourished, private profit boomed (some of it grabbed by the friends and relations of the ruler) and this was, at least theoretically, different in the Soviet Union and China.

    That's not to say that there aren't fascistic elements in lots of societies. When I hear that the US President can decide who to assassinate around the world with impunity, including (we now hear) US citizens, I call Fascist. When the British Prime Minister and Chancellor round on a pathetic family dominated by an abusive and twisted man and use them as an example to attack the welfare state, I call Fascist.
    I actually agree.

    And I accept that my use of the word is (literally) incorrect.

    I just feel there's a degree of ambiguity!
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    (Original post by a729)
    For once I agree with you!
    There's a turn up for the books!
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    Permission to make that thread please ? :>
    I just made that thread!
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Which one of yourselves will launch the thread?
    I just bumped it up- so it's one of the top UK politics threads!
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    typical libertarian hyperbole

    Just because someone supports the ideal of a social contract and the equality of provision of certain core services ( especially health services where the only ethically sound means of control of access is clinical need) does not mean they are a Marxist-Leninist ...

    Libertarianism taken to excess is a sign of either utter naivety, a lack of exposure to anything outside a protected middle class upbringing and the associated immaturity this brings or it is symptom of a Personality Disorder / sociopathic tendency.

    Libertarianism is the only political ideology which is obviously a symptom of mental disorder ... belief in Collectivism, Marxist-leninist, Maoist or trotskyite anarcho-syndicalism is just a sign of naivity and gullibility rather than pathology.
    Labelling your opponent 'mental' doesn't constitute proper debate.

    I could very well be mental, but it doesn't detract from the point that free market competition is more efficient at delivering services than nationalised industry. You may be unwilling to acknowledge the fact that the NHS is an excerise in Post WW2 collectivism, but I don't see any need to buy into your delusion on the grounds that if I don't I'm somehow mentally deficient.

    The market is perfectly capable of delivering services on time, in budget and at a pricepoint people of all incomes can afford. We've witnessed this with clothing, cars, food, electronic goods, in fact anything you care to mention. But when it comes to healthcare hard leftists like yourself insist that we should suspend all reason and evidence and instead repeat the mantra that 'privatisation is the devils work because it leads to outrageous profits, scarcity and a capitalist class', while tapping away on your Toshiba laptop that is sitting upon an Argos desk.

    Healthcare is just another service like plumbing or mechanics. There's absolutely no reason to assume that it would degrade and become more expensive if we forced suppliers to operate in a free market and compete with one another for business. In fact all the evidence suggests the opposite is the case.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Labelling your opponent 'mental' doesn't constitute proper debate.
    i didn't call anyone mental i suggested that extreme libertarianism, if not as a result or immaturity and naivety is indicative of sociopathic tendencies ( i.e. inability to see other;'s viewpoints, inability to have empathy or value other people )

    I could very well be mental, but it doesn't detract from the point that free market competition is more efficient at delivering services than nationalised industry.
    assuming of course that itis market where profit can be made at all price points

    You may be unwilling to acknowledge the fact that the NHS is an excerise in Post WW2 collectivism, but I don't see any need to buy into your delusion on the grounds that if I don't I'm somehow mentally deficient.

    most sociopaths consider their behaviour to be entirely normal, and consider that they have greater worth than anyone else

    The market is perfectly capable of delivering services on time, in budget and at a pricepoint people of all incomes can afford. We've witnessed this with clothing, cars, food, electronic goods, in fact anything you care to mention.
    consumer goods not professional services

    access to professional services even in a free market are restricted , takingthe Law as an example either where there is an ability to pay up front ( as seen with libel cases etc) regardless of outcome or where it is clear there is profit to be made ( No Win No Fee types)

    But when it comes to healthcare hard leftists like yourself insist that we should suspend all reason and evidence and instead repeat the mantra that 'privatisation is the devils work because it leads to outrageous profits, scarcity and a capitalist class', while tapping away on your Toshiba laptop that is sitting upon an Argos desk.
    Access to healthcare is a human right. the costs incurred with respect to healthcare cannot be controlled directly by the individual unlike with the pruchase of consumer goods

    'free market' health care systems we keep beign told do not exist, generally by those who wish to divert attention from the failures i nthe US healthcare market where many people on low to middle income are under or uninsured because there is no provider willing to offer cover at a sensible price, yes the individual is not sufficiently poor to qualify for the limited State safety nets


    Healthcare is just another service like plumbing or mechanics. There's absolutely no reason to assume that it would degrade and become more expensive if we forced suppliers to operate in a free market and compete with one another for business. In fact all the evidence suggests the opposite is the case.
    Healthcare is not 'just another service' and it is a professional service not a trade. There are certain minimums in terms of price that cannot be reduced unless you abandon any pretence at quality assurance. the lead times for staffing numbers are measured in years at the least and decades in terms of influencing Consultant Doctor Numbers

    People have little direct influence over their healthcare needs and there are few Healthcare emergencies that can wait , you can't delay treating meningitis until after the 25th which you can do with fixing the car or getting a plumbing issue resolved ...
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I have to say, even after months of inactivity, it is nice to be remembered
    Good to see you back.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Good to see you back.
    I would be back properly if this site loaded and worked properly.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    The more outrageous the opinion, the louder they seem to shout it... :colonhash:
    Arguing with UKIP/BNP/EDL is like chess with a pidgeon, no matter how good you are at playing chess, the pidgeon will just knock over all the pieces, do its business on the board and strut around like its victorious.
    They seem to believe Daily Mail/The Sun etc is showing the REAL WORLD... It astounds me...
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    TSR should look at a NO Platform policy

    It is not nice reading extremist views time and time again
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    (Original post by Jprr)
    Arguing with UKIP/BNP/EDL is like chess with a pidgeon, no matter how good you are at playing chess, the pidgeon will just knock over all the pieces, do its business on the board and strut around like its victorious.
    They seem to believe Daily Mail/The Sun etc is showing the REAL WORLD... It astounds me...
    Couldnt they just say the same thing about you? Thats such a pointless statement.
 
 
 
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