Should women earn as much as men? Watch

Nu Ordah!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#561
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#561
During the childbearing years no. After menopause I see no problem
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Reblet
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#562
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#562
(Original post by Nu Ordah!!!!!!!!!!!!)
During the childbearing years no. After menopause I see no problem
If I was in Harry Potter I'd stick a wand up your nose.
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WithFlyingColours
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#563
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#563
Who are these hidden feminists you keep going on about? Name a famous feminist under the age of 50. Feminism is only alive in literature and in the watered-down form of equalism. You're implying that feminists are everywhere like a PC patrol! That's quite frankly rubbish, a vocal few (as in all these things) is blowing things out of proportion. As HMK says, it's like saying all devoted Muslims are terrorists or something similar.
Don't need to know names, names are irrelevant. All that matters is the action of these feminists and the effects of their actions. Wimbledon saw these feminist idiots come out. Any percieved inequality sees many many closet feminazis come out of the woodwork to swipe what they don't deserve.

When you reply to me please quote me or something, otherwise I don't know I've got something to retort or come back on.
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Kondar
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(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
So why dont the call themselves egalitarians?

Feminism is a joke. Remember the big hoo-haa about the word snowman? "It should be snowperson, I find snowman offensive."
You seem to be under the impression that the entire feminist movement, as broad and vast as it is, can be encompassed into a single homogeneous voice. Feminism is a distinct ideology that is based on the premise that women are equal to men in the working world. How far people want to run with this is left to the individual. However, you seem to place everyone of this mindset into a fringe category and by doing so I can only assume that this is a defensive gesture.

Feminism does not mean carving up and nitpicking societal norms that most people take for granted, to assume that it does means not only to misconstrue the message, but to attempt to minimize it. I begin to assume that this kind of thinking must be fearful in nature. Do you rely on a perceived societal advantage because of your gender and are you afraid to lose this?
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WithFlyingColours
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You seem to be under the impression that the entire feminist movement, as broad and vast as it is, can be encompassed into a single homogeneous voice. Feminism is a distinct ideology that is based on the premise that women are equal to men in the working world. How far people want to run with this is left to the individual. However, you seem to place everyone of this mindset into a fringe category and by doing so I can only assume that this is a defensive gesture.

Feminism does not mean carving up and nitpicking societal norms that most people take for granted, to assume that it does means not only to misconstrue the message, but to attempt to minimize it. I begin to assume that this kind of thinking must be fearful in nature. Do you rely on a perceived societal advantage because of your gender and are you afraid to lose this?
Not a defensive gesture whatsoever. I'm merely criticising the movement on valid grounds. What you claim to be a fringe of feminism is the one that seems to get every single one of their pathetic views listened to. They get what they want. To use it again: Wimbledon. Why is it that the media can't rubbish these people. It's almost like it's politically correct to give women whatever they want no matter how illogical or unfair it is simply because they were oppressed in the past.
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Kondar
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(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
I'm merely criticising the movement on valid grounds.
In this discussion you have yet to define the feminist movement let alone articulate a position regarding such, so that one may respond to it.

What you claim to be a fringe of feminism is the one that seems to get every single one of their pathetic views listened to. They get what they want.
I have made no claims to my perspective of feminism and no attempt to articulate what I perceive as the fringe of this movement. I have simply responded to your inferences. For the sake of this discussion, please clarify whom you refer to when using the pronoun 'they'.

To use it again: Wimbledon. Why is it that the media can't rubbish these people.
I have yet to hear rubbish used as a verb, perhaps you could refine this statement. While you are at it, please explain to me this huge injustice that thus far seems to be the sole foundation of your vaguely construed argument.
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Reblet
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#567
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#567
As far as I'm concerned this discussion is defunct anyway as it has just deteriorated into a discussion about the exact definition of feminism with "Wimbledon" regurgitated over and over again. I'd say something outrageous to provoke discussion but even "women aren't stupid" is neg-worthy so...
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WithFlyingColours
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#568
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In this discussion you have yet to define the feminist movement let alone articulate a position regarding such, so that one may respond to it.
The feminist movement is diffcult to define. There has been many waves of feminism with different chains of thought. Do some reading on feminism, the history of, and the effects of, before further comment.

How you can come into this discussion late and accuse me, who has been in the discussion since it was on-topic, of not providing a comment worthy of response. I've made plenty of decent comments provoking decent argument. Look back accross all 29 pages if you can be bothered. If not, I suggest you keep quiet about what I have or haven't done with regards to articulating a viewpoint.

Noticing you live in America, I'm not surprised you have little grasp of the English language. Rubbish can be used as a verb:

rubbish

noun
1. worthless material that is to be disposed of
2. nonsensical talk or writing [syn: folderol]

verb
1. attack strongly

Perhaps think next time you try to be clever?

Again, my use of the word 'they' refers to feminists in the plural. Perhaps another point about the English language you may have missed? It is a blanket term and I do not see the need to define who I'm talking about other than feminists in general.

While you are at it, please explain to me this huge injustice that thus far seems to be the sole foundation of your vaguely construed argument.
I'm sorry, I overlooked the fact that people from the mighty US of A may be reading this. I must remind you that there are countries other than your own, and things do happen in said other countries. The ignorance of some really is astounding. I do not see the need to repeat the injustice happening with regards to prize money at Wimbledon. A simple google search will reveal all. If you're stuck, Wimbledon is in a country called England, and it is the venue of the world's most famous tennis tournament. Apparently the 'world' doesn't include the USA...

As far as I'm concerned this discussion is defunct anyway as it has just deteriorated into a discussion about the exact definition of feminism with "Wimbledon" regurgitated over and over again. I'd say something outrageous to provoke discussion but even "women aren't stupid" is neg-worthy so...
This discussion is defunct and completely off-topic. I think we got some good points out earlier on but now there is not much left to say and people who have clearly not read all the arguments are entering and making misinformed comments.

Wimbledon is simply a good example of injustice caused by feminism, hence why it has been used multiple times.

I'm not saying women are stupid. I'm just of the opinion that men and women are here for different purposes and have different strengths and weaknesses. Feminists believe that all our differences are culturally inherited and not biologically innate, hence they put our differences aside and are attempting to push women into a more male orientated role. I disagree with this.
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jacketpotato
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(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
Wimbledon is simply a good example of injustice caused by feminism, hence why it has been used multiple times.
Regarding Wimbledon, have you stopped to consider why it is that women play 3 sets and men 5?

Although I can't vouch for the reliability of the source I read this from, I am under the impression that this was due to traditional paternalism towards women: women were forced to wear ridiculous corsets when competing, and there was undue concern about women pushing themselves in the early days of Wimbledon.
Surely the fact that women only play 3 sets is an example itself of culturally inherited sexism. The right thing to do would seem to be to have women and men both playing 5 sets, I see no logical reason for women being unable to play 5 sets.

So the injustice that you keep referring to is actually only an injustice because of a failure to rectify a set of circumstances put in place by sexism; why should women continue to pay for this historical example of sexism by receiving less prize money?
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WithFlyingColours
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#570
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So the injustice that you keep referring to is actually only an injustice because of a failure to rectify a set of circumstances put in place by sexism; why should women continue to pay for this historical example of sexism by receiving less prize money?
The easiest and fairest thing to do would indeed be to make them both play 5 sets. But you didn't see that being suggested by the protestors did you? Feminists have no interest in making things fair whatsoever - this is my point! When pay got made equal, so should the amount of sets played.
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Kondar
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(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
There has been many waves of feminism with different chains of thought. Do some reading on feminism, the history of, and the effects of, before further comment.

Noticing you live in America, I'm not surprised you have little grasp of the English language.
hehe
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Kondar
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#572
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(Original post by WithFlyingColours)
Again, my use of the word 'they' refers to feminists in the plural. Perhaps another point about the English language you may have missed? It is a blanket term and I do not see the need to define who I'm talking about other than feminists in general.
What you lack is the ability to clearly articulate your argument. You rattle on and on about some discrepancy over the winnings at Wimbledon, but this is hardly a coherent position. You say, "The ignorance of some really is astounding," and yet you cannot clearly define a term you use so frequently?! Do you know the meaning of the words you use here- if you do you have failed to demonstrate this.

I'm not saying women are stupid. I'm just of the opinion that men and women are here for different purposes and have different strengths and weaknesses. Feminists believe that all our differences are culturally inherited and not biologically innate, hence they put our differences aside and are attempting to push women into a more male orientated role. I disagree with this.
Again, there you go giving a single voice to a very heterogeneous movement. The reason I asked you to define feminism was to try and illustrate to you that not all feminist agree on this issue. Yet, you wield the term feminism around time and time again as if it were your own. Please provide to me a women's advocacy group that publicly states that all biological differences are culturally inherited? You will not find one.
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WithFlyingColours
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#573
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What you lack is the ability to clearly articulate your argument. You rattle on and on about some discrepancy over the winnings at Wimbledon, but this is hardly a coherent position. You say, "The ignorance of some really is astounding," and yet you cannot clearly define a term you use so frequently?! Do you know the meaning of the words you use here- if you do you have failed to demonstrate this.
Once again, you claim I can't articulate the argument. As far as I'm concerned, the argument ended a long time ago. I'll ask, have you read all 29 pages? With regards to your ignorance, I was commenting on your ignorance about the Wimbledon issue.

Again, there you go giving a single voice to a very heterogeneous movement.
It may well be a heterogeneous movement, I'm not denying that. It is however the extremists who do the most and hence are noticed the most. Not hard to comprehend really is it?

Until you take the time to read all my comments on this subject I'm not discussing this with you any further. Why should I repeat myself?

Please provide to me a women's advocacy group that publicly states that all biological differences are culturally inherited? You will not find one.
It is the common opinion of the theird wave of feminism. If you knew anything about the subject you would know of the disputes between the opposing Carol Gilligan and the majority of the third wave.
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Charliexxbby
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OMGSH!!! I DON'T GET WHY PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS!!!
BEING SEXIST ISN'T GOING TO PROVE ANYTHING, BESIDES YOU RUDENESS! IM SORRY. BUT FOR EXAMPLE:
OUTSIDE THE BOSS' OFFICE ARE 2 YOUNG, EXPERIENCED PEOPLE, BOTH WANTING THE SAME JOB.
(sorry i only just realised i was writting in caps the whole time lol)

1 male the other female.
If the male has more experience and is more appropriate for the job then YES! of course he deserves to get it. Same for the female.
But picking someone over their gender! *pfft* pathetic

Why do SOME women get treated like that?
I mean in the olden days, it was really about the working male and the stay at home female...but that's how things were done. Technology and the world is rapidly rising in modern lifestyles. It's time we caught up to today's "modernness" and start treating people with the same respect! (I mean come on we learnt how horrible this stuff is in Primary Shool!!)

sorry that i sounded so dis-respectful, I just don't want my future ( and I speak for many young' ins) to have the females doing what is expected of them. I mean I don't do expected "girl" things. AND THAT'S THE SAME WITH LOTS OF GIRLS NOW
I play footie, skate, love scary movies and i couldn't be happier like that.
have a nice day everyone :P XD
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XRoshniX
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#575
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#575
YES YES YES YES....remind me....WHY are you even asking this question...? X
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Edenr
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#576
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Depends whether this is the public sector or private sector. If it's the public sector then I suppose there should be some guidelines, but in the private companies should be free to do what they want. If I applied for a job at a private company, and that job was given to a woman who was vastly inferior to me in all areas required to do the job purely because she was a woman, I wouldn't complain that that was unfair. I respect their ability to employ whoever they like.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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#577
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(Original post by Edenr)
Depends whether this is the public sector or private sector. If it's the public sector then I suppose there should be some guidelines, but in the private companies should be free to do what they want. If I applied for a job at a private company, and that job was given to a woman who was vastly inferior to me in all areas required to do the job purely because she was a woman, I wouldn't complain that that was unfair. I respect their ability to employ whoever they like.
Including making Britain close to an oligarchy?
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Bateman
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#578
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#578
(Original post by Malinski)
Everyone should be paid according to how much they do, regardless of gender!
what she said, however we should note that women can have maternity leave etc. so overall they do less than men
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Edenr
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#579
(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Including making Britain close to an oligarchy?
I'm referring specifically here to recruitment.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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#580
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#580
(Original post by Edenr)
I'm referring specifically here to recruitment.
So was I.
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