The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Original post by tsr1269

The UK does not consider HAMAS to be a terrorist organisation.

Well, they have settlers and colonizers on their land. Would you rather be colonised and have minimal trade or be free under siege?

That's a tough one...

the EU considers Hamas a terrorist organisation, and the Uk is part of the EU, so even if the Uk doesn't consider them terrorists, the majority of the Democratic states in the EU do. So I don't know what point your trying to prove is.

To say Israel is colonising is just silly, everyone knows the only reason Israel is in the west bank is because it fought a series of defensive wars many years ago backed by the US which led to Israel beating back numerically superior Arabic armies. They have occupied the land ever since, mainly for security reasons.
if militant groups weren't in charge that were seeking the destruction of Israel a two state solution could be on the horizon.
Yes that will involve alot of negotiations and will take time.

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tsr1269

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Original post by cizzlar

the EU considers Hamas a terrorist organisation, and the Uk is part of the EU, so even if the Uk doesn't consider them terrorists, the majority of the Democratic states in the EU do. So I don't know what point your trying to prove is.

So why does the UK operate a separate list of terror organisations if the UK's list and the EU's list are, as you claim, "interchangeable"?

Surely the presence of an active and periodically updated list suggests that the UK does not consider HAMAS to be a terrorist organisation?

To say Israel is colonising is just silly, everyone knows the only reason Israel is in the west bank is because it fought a series of defensive wars many years ago backed by the US which led to Israel beating back numerically superior Arabic armies. They have occupied the land ever since, mainly for security reasons.

So they are colonisers? Well, I could have told you that at the start but you've just written an entire paragraph stating that they are not but then you conclude by saying they are occupying and have settlers which is in effect, a colony.

Well done for defeating your own point and adding strength to my argument. My only hope is that others, who were like you, realise this...

if militant groups weren't in charge that were seeking the destruction of Israel a two state solution could be on the horizon.
Yes that will involve alot of negotiations and will take time.

But Fatah are not a terrorist organisation, nor are they seeking the destruction of the SS/SC State yet no one wants to give them a state? :confused:

Reply 5804

Original post by tsr1269

So why does the UK operate a separate list of terror organisations if the UK's list and the EU's list are, as you claim, "interchangeable"

Surely the presence of an active and periodically updated list suggests that the UK does not consider HAMAS to be a terrorist organisation?

please tell me where I say they are interchangeable and plus the UK does consider Hamas's military wing terrorists so as far as I'm concerned that's made you look silly and that's the end of that point.

Original post by tsr1269

So they are colonisers? Well, I could have told you that at the start but you've just written an entire paragraph stating that they are not but then you conclude by saying they are occupying and have settlers which is in effect, a colony.

Well done for defeating your own point and adding strength to my argument. My only hope is that others, who were like you, realise this...

Occupying has a different definition to colonising, obviosuly you're making yourself look silly so heres a couple of links to the definitions of both. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/colonise http://www.thefreedictionary.com/occupy
Now the reason why they are occupying is up for or debate, I like to think its because they still face a threat from various Palestinian terrorists in the region and its not like Israeli troops are controlling all of the west bank.

Original post by tsr1269

But Fatah are not a terrorist organisation, nor are they seeking the destruction of the SS/SC State yet no one wants to give them a state? :confused:

Now you're making things up again, I never said Fatah were but for a two state solution to work well Fatah or other non-terrorist organisations need to be in control of all the Palestinian lands so that includes the west bank aswell as Gaza. As soon as this is sorted the other problems like Israeli settlers in the west bank can be sorted, I personally believe Israel could get all the settlers out of occupied lands if they wanted too, all the settlers in Gaza were taken out in 2005.

Maybe I could of given more detail in my earlier reply to you but the fact you're grasping at straws by saying i've said things which I clearly haven't just shows that when you aren't biased and influenced by others and look at things impartially like me you lose...bitch :wink:

(edited 9 years ago)

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tsr1269

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Original post by cizzlar

please tell me where I say they are interchangeable and plus the UK does consider Hamas's military wing terrorists so as far as I'm concerned that's made you look silly and that's the end of that point.

You said that the "UK is part of the EU..blah blah" implying that the UK supports or at the very least agrees with the EU's terror list.Iz

HAMAS is a lot more than just it's military wing.

Occupying has a different definition to colonising, obviosuly you're making yourself look silly so heres a couple of links to the definitions of both. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/colonise http://www.thefreedictionary.com/occupy

And the SS/SC has engaged in both effective colonisation and occupation of the Palestinian territories.

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Original post by tsr1269

You said that the "UK is part of the EU..blah blah" implying that the UK supports or at the very least agrees with the EU's terror list.Iz

HAMAS is a lot more than just it's military wing.

It doesn't matter if 'Hamas is alot more than its military wing', if there military wing carries out acts of terrorism , that justifies not letting Hamas do as it wants. It justifies Israel blockading through the fear of Hamas's military wing obtaining more tools too carry out more terrorism.

Reply 5807

Rocket fired from the terrorist entity of Gaza into Israel

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Original post by Chindits

Rocket fired from the terrorist entity of Gaza into Israel

You failed to mention that the militants have already been arrested by Hamas http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4571864,00.html

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Original post by DaveSmith99

You failed to mention that the militants have already been arrested by Hamas http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4571864,00.html

How does that negate the fact that the terrorist entity fired a rocket and broke the ceasefire?

Just because one lot of bearded terrorists decided to make a P.R. show of it and 'arrest' another group of bearded terrorists who will go through the infamous 'palestinian' revolving door of 'justice', does not alter the fact that Israel was still hit by a rocket and will no doubt be hit by more.

The usual 'palestinian' tactic of starting rocket fire with a trickle. Just the sporadic rocket to keep the fear up in Israeli communities, but not enough to illicit a military response.

All rockets should be met with a military response and quite frankly I'm disappointed Israel did not strike back.

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Original post by Chindits

How does that negate the fact that the terrorist entity fired a rocket and broke the ceasefire?

Just because one lot of bearded terrorists decided to make a P.R. show of it and 'arrest' another group of bearded terrorists who will go through the infamous 'palestinian' revolving door of 'justice', does not alter the fact that Israel was still hit by a rocket and will no doubt be hit by more.

The usual 'palestinian' tactic of starting rocket fire with a trickle. Just the sporadic rocket to keep the fear up in Israeli communities, but not enough to illicit a military response.

All rockets should be met with a military response and quite frankly I'm disappointed Israel did not strike back.

The rockets will keep coming forever more until Palestine is free or all Palestinians are dead.

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anarchism101

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Original post by Chindits

How does that negate the fact that the terrorist entity fired a rocket and broke the ceasefire?

You can't be breaking the ceasefire if you're not a party to it.

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Original post by DaveSmith99

The rockets will keep coming forever more until Palestine is free or all Palestinians are dead.

The people of Gaza will never truly be free if their undemocratic terrorist supporting leaders are in charge.

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Original post by anarchism101

You can't be breaking the ceasefire if you're not a party to it.

Hamas, we are told by their flag wavers and cheerleaders in Europe, are the "elected government" of the 'palestinians'.

They control Gaza and are responsible for any rocket fire.

Just as Israel would be responsible if a citizen took it upon themselves to fire rockets into Gaza.

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Original post by cizzlar

The people of Gaza will never truly be free if their undemocratic terrorist supporting leaders are in charge.

Which they will be for as long as Israel continues to act as an aggressor in Palestine.

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Original post by DaveSmith99

Which they will be for as long as Israel continues to act as an aggressor in Palestine.

You really are deluded, if you weren't so biased towards one side and looked at the situation impartially, both sides could do more but Israel does not want to be the aggressor it knows the international community would come down hard on them if they were. If Gaza had free and fair elections tomorrow and a forward thinking peaceful party became in charge the situation would move alot quicker towards peace.

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anarchism101

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Original post by Chindits

Hamas, we are told by their flag wavers and cheerleaders in Europe, are the "elected government" of the 'palestinians'.

They control Gaza and are responsible for any rocket fire.

Just as Israel would be responsible if a citizen took it upon themselves to fire rockets into Gaza.

They are responsible for trying to stop such actions, and for administering justice should they fail in stopping them. Which is precisely what they've done.

If an ordinary Israeli decided to fire bombs into Gaza, with Israeli officials having made an effort to apprehend them beforehand, and arresting them immediately after, no, that would not be a breaking of the ceasefire.

Unless you're taking a ridiculously broad definition and just looking for reason to say it's been broken, which indicates that you're not so much worried about the ceasefire being broken as looking for an excuse to collapse it.

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Original post by cizzlar

You really are deluded, if you weren't so biased towards one side and looked at the situation impartially, both sides could do more but Israel does not want to be the aggressor it knows the international community would come down hard on them if they were. If Gaza had free and fair elections tomorrow and a forward thinking peaceful party became in charge the situation would move alot quicker towards peace.

I have looked at it impartially, that's how I arrived at my position. There is only one member of the international community that Israel needs, and it has its full and almost unconditional backing. Israel is an aggressor, it occupies Palestine, it blockades Gaza, it settles Palestinian land in the West Bank and it has divided the West Bank up into smaller, barely connected regions that have all but ended freedom of movement in the West Bank. No spin, no bias, those are facts that no one can deny.

If Gaza had free and fair elections tomorrow, Hamas would almost certainly win as Israel's latest offensive has bought them huge amounts of support.

Reply 5818

Original post by anarchism101

Unless you're taking a ridiculously broad definition and just looking for reason to say it's been broken, which indicates that you're not so much worried about the ceasefire being broken as looking for an excuse to collapse it.

Naive.

In which wars have ceasefires been broken by one party who then go on to claim it doesn't count because it wasn't an *official* breakage of the ceasefire but just a group acting on their own?

Using your logic, they could fire on Israel every week and claim Hamas will "deal with the perps".

Israel has let them off with this one, we'll see how many more times the 'palestinians' goad Israel in the coming weeks/months.

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