Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    It is the mistakes which do tar the New Labour Government so completely as there was no need for them, and those on the left told them as such at the time. Yes they did a lot of good, I don't think a lot of it went far enough, but there were great things, but with that majority Blair could have done a lot, lot more, that's my issue, along with the mistakes, with New Labour.

    Vote share is nevertheless important, Miliband did a far better job than he is given credit, winning more votes than Blair in England, and winning more seats in England than Brown did, had we not lost Scotland which is not something I think we can blame Miliband for at all, we would have won more seats than in 2010, and possible seen a greater vote share than in 2005 across the UK. Both of which would have been positive for Labour.

    I would also point out about 1997 than the torys where just burnt out and pretty much disliked as a whole, their economic credibility was in the bin and they seemed flat on their feet, John Smith would have won, and any of those who ran against Blair could have won, they may have had a smaller majority but a good win in 1997 was literally ours to chuck away given the mess the tories where in both with the public on the economy and internally over Europe
    I must stress that I don't consider myself remotely Blairite. I just don't see how you can claim the government did great things and simultaneously slander it as a complete waste of time, that's all

    I'm almost ideologically identical to Miliband but his years have to be treated as a huge failure - this was a massive opportunity to knock an unpopular government out of office. I don't blame him personally but overall vote share is largely irrelevant in a FPTP system and our strategy led to our embarrassing defeat. It's much more impressing getting c. 30% of the vote when you're in government having just presided over one of the most unpopular wars in memory than when you're up against an incompetent government.

    I don't doubt your point, and I'm not sure I understand its relevance, but I would stress that Blair's success lies in the fact he won in formerly Tory ground to an extent unseen in party history. That's what we need to learn from, even if it isn't in terms of policy but strategy.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by St. Brynjar)
    I must stress that I don't consider myself remotely Blairite. I just don't see how you can claim the government did great things and simultaneously slander it as a complete waste of time, that's all

    I'm almost ideologically identical to Miliband but his years have to be treated as a huge failure - this was a massive opportunity to knock an unpopular government out of office. I don't blame him personally but overall vote share is largely irrelevant in a FPTP system and our strategy led to our embarrassing defeat. It's much more impressing getting c. 30% of the vote when you're in government having just presided over one of the most unpopular wars in memory than when you're up against an incompetent government.

    I don't doubt your point, and I'm not sure I understand its relevance, but I would stress that Blair's success lies in the fact he won in formerly Tory ground to an extent unseen in party history. That's what we need to learn from, even if it isn't in terms of policy but strategy.
    It is possible to do great things and awful things at the same time, and for me the great things some where great, some where good but not enough, then the awful things are as bad if not worse than the good things, for example PFI, Iraq, the lengthy detentions without trial, deregulation and so on. Complete is maybe a slight exaggeration but two terms with massive majorities, we could have done so, so much more, and avoided so much of the bad things which tarred new labour's time in office.

    As for Miliband, I think Miliband was further left than his term in charge suggests, but even Miliband's Labour was too right for me, with their essentially austerity lite plan. My point about vote share was more that Miliband was more popular in the Country than Brown was in number of votes, and almost reached Blair in 2005, I personally think this isn't something to overlook. And while we can agree it was an incompetent government, they had nearly blanket positive coverage going into the general election, and had far better social media strategies.

    He won more seats than any other leader, but not the highest percent of the vote, and Blair didn't win the most elections as a Labour leader, he managed to win two big victories against a Tory party which was dead in the water, not unlike Labour has been since 2007/8 although to a greater extent. I do agree our strategy needs a lot of work though, there is a lot we could learn going into 2020.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    It is the mistakes which do tar the New Labour Government so completely as there was no need for them, and those on the left told them as such at the time. Yes they did a lot of good, I don't think a lot of it went far enough, but there were great things, but with that majority Blair could have done a lot, lot more, that's my issue, along with the mistakes, with New Labour.

    Vote share is nevertheless important, Miliband did a far better job than he is given credit, winning more votes than Blair in England, and winning more seats in England than Brown did, had we not lost Scotland which is not something I think we can blame Miliband for at all, we would have won more seats than in 2010, and possible seen a greater vote share than in 2005 across the UK. Both of which would have been positive for Labour.

    I would also point out about 1997 than the torys where just burnt out and pretty much disliked as a whole, their economic credibility was in the bin and they seemed flat on their feet, John Smith would have won, and any of those who ran against Blair could have won, they may have had a smaller majority but a good win in 1997 was literally ours to chuck away given the mess the tories where in both with the public on the economy and internally over Europe
    Even if you'd held your Scottish vote, you'd only have 33% so lower than 2005.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Even if you'd held your Scottish vote, you'd only have 33% so lower than 2005.
    Thank you Rakas, I hadn't calculated it, but we certainly would have had more MPs than after the 2010 election, we lost 30-40 odd seats in scotland, but we only had 26 less seats than in 2010
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    how long do dupe checks usually take?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cBay)
    how long do dupe checks usually take?
    It varies but it can be a while unfortunately.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by United1892)
    It varies but it can be a while unfortunately.
    doesn't bother me personally too much, but for newer members it's quite likely they are going to lose interest by the time the dupe check comes around, so the house is probably losing potentially active members. Maybe parties should consider admitting people provisionally while they wait, a quick look through someone's post history can usually dispel any doubts about them.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cBay)
    doesn't bother me personally too much, but for newer members it's quite likely they are going to lose interest by the time the dupe check comes around, so the house is probably losing potentially active members. Maybe parties should consider admitting people provisionally while they wait, a quick look through someone's post history can usually dispel any doubts about them.
    Possibly but after the Saoirse affair we are taking extra precautions.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by cBay)
    doesn't bother me personally too much, but for newer members it's quite likely they are going to lose interest by the time the dupe check comes around, so the house is probably losing potentially active members. Maybe parties should consider admitting people provisionally while they wait, a quick look through someone's post history can usually dispel any doubts about them.
    It's normally quicker than this, I must say.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    how do i join guys? and get involved? I'd like to become an MP
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aaronmdaniels)
    how do i join guys? and get involved? I'd like to become an MP
    Just post in the join a party thread
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Just post in the join a party thread
    here, or in the other thread?
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aaronmdaniels)
    how do i join guys? and get involved? I'd like to become an MP
    Hi there. You have to apply to join the Labour Usergroup. I'm on mobile so I can't get a link for you, but you'll be able to find one in the Join A Party Recruitment thread


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Hi there. You have to apply to join the Labour Usergroup. I'm on mobile so I can't get a link for you, but you'll be able to find one in the Join A Party Recruitment thread


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    cheers man
    • Community Assistant
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aaronmdaniels)
    how do i join guys? and get involved? I'd like to become an MP
    Hi, I'm the Party Chair - if you're sure you'd like to join us, then it's here - just find the group 'TSR Labour Party' and click 'Join Group'. The CT do seem to be having a bit of an issue with carrying out dupe checks at the moment so it may take quite a long time for you to be accepted
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Hi, I'm the Party Chair - if you're sure you'd like to join us, then it's here - just find the group 'TSR Labour Party' and click 'Join Group'. The CT do seem to be having a bit of an issue with carrying out dupe checks at the moment so it may take quite a long time for you to be accepted
    cheers man, glad to make your acquaintance. Real life dedicated member, I am fairly sure I want to join here as well
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Aaronmdaniels)
    how do i join guys? and get involved? I'd like to become an MP
    Hi,

    I'm the Leader of TSR Labour. If you go here and apply to join the TSR Labour usergroup, then I will look to accept you as soon as I can.

    Fez.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Hi,

    I'm the Leader of TSR Labour. If you go here and apply to join the TSR Labour usergroup, then I will look to accept you as soon as I can.

    Fez.
    Done, cheers fez.

    Quick question, when is the next election, and how do I start to get involved in becoming an MP?
    • Community Assistant
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aaronmdaniels)
    Done, cheers fez.

    Quick question, when is the next election, and how do I start to get involved in becoming an MP?
    The next GE is in April, but it's very possible that a seat will come free at some point before then - an MP might resign, or God forbid be banned or removed, at which point a by-election will be held within the party. I should add though, you don't have to be an MP to take part in debates
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Aaronmdaniels)
    Done, cheers fez.

    Quick question, when is the next election, and how do I start to get involved in becoming an MP?
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    The next GE is in April, but it's very possible that a seat will come free at some point before then - an MP might resign, or God forbid be banned or removed, at which point a by-election will be held within the party. I should add though, you don't have to be an MP to take part in debates
    As Cranbrook says, the next general election, where we get our seat allocation for the next term and re-elect our MPs for that term, is likely to be in April. However, many people who join mid-term get (should they want one) an MP seat through an MP by-election when one of our MPs resigns, is removed or gets themselves banned.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: December 18, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.