The Commons Bar Mk VIII - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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Rakas21
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#5821
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#5821
(Original post by O133)
Salmond still doesn't have any answers on currency that anyone would really want bar the already-ruled-out currency union.
He is correctly betting that the rejection is a bluff.
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Mechie
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#5822
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#5822
(Original post by O133)
Salmond still doesn't have any answers on currency that anyone would really want bar the already-ruled-out currency union.
This is such a load of rubbish. There's plenty of answers that have been given on currency.
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ukip72
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#5823
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#5823
(Original post by Mechie)
This is such a load of rubbish. There's plenty of answers that have been given on currency.
He couldn't give any last night, he said he had 3 plan B's but refused to say what they were.
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Blue Meltwater
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#5824
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#5824
(Original post by Mechie)
This is such a load of rubbish. There's plenty of answers that have been given on currency.
Indeed - I was pleased to hear him mention the option of having a Scottish pound pegged to the euro, which I think would be a viable option if a currency union ultimately doesn't happen. I wouldn't like to say whether I think the 'no currency union' position is a bluff, but I do think many of Westminster's positions will be re-evaluated once they're no longer having to say things just to win a referendum.
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Saracen's Fez
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#5825
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#5825
(Original post by ukip72)
He couldn't give any last night, he said he had 3 plan B's but refused to say what they were.
Yeah, did anyone catch the plan Bs? I wasn't paying enormous amounts of attention but I didn't hear any other than just using the pound anyway?

Still I think what Salmond really wants is the euro...
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CrazyOlympicsGuy
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#5826
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#5826
(Original post by ukip72)
He couldn't give any last night, he said he had 3 plan B's but refused to say what they were.
You can find them all with a quick google, Salmond wisely chose not to fill half an hour of a debate going into the intricate details of ifs and maybes to satisfy Darling.
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ukip72
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#5827
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#5827
(Original post by CrazyOlympicsGuy)
You can find them all with a quick google, Salmond wisely chose not to fill half an hour of a debate going into the intricate details of ifs and maybes to satisfy Darling.
Salmond dodged the question, which he spent the whole evening doing. As Alistair Darling pointed out, Salmond has plenty of great lines but no real answers.
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ukip72
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#5828
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#5828
(Original post by O133)
Yeah, did anyone catch the plan Bs? I wasn't paying enormous amounts of attention but I didn't hear any other than just using the pound anyway?

Still I think what Salmond really wants is the euro...
What really infuriates me is that Salmond despises rule from London so much, yet if Scotland votes for independence he won't think twice about transferring powers from Edinburgh to Brussels.

I think he probably does want Scotland to join the Euro, even if he didn't, what does he do about Scotland's legal obligation to join?
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Blue Meltwater
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#5829
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#5829
(Original post by O133)
Yeah, did anyone catch the plan Bs? I wasn't paying enormous amounts of attention but I didn't hear any other than just using the pound anyway?

Still I think what Salmond really wants is the euro...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28931145

At ten minutes in, he says other options are "a flexible Scottish currency" like Sweden or Norway or a Scottish pound attached to the pound sterling, and presumably also a Scottish pound pegged to the euro. And there's also joining the euro itself. So that's four plan Bs.
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Blue Meltwater
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#5830
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#5830
(Original post by ukip72)
What really infuriates me is that Salmond despises rule from London so much, yet if Scotland votes for independence he won't think twice about transferring powers from Edinburgh to Brussels.
This is one of the reasons so many of us feel drawn to independence. Opinion polls suggest the Scottish public are much more positive to the EU than people in the rest of the UK. What if there is an EU referendum which votes to leave the EU, but Scotland as a whole votes to stay in yet is dragged out anyway? That's a very realistic scenario.
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CrazyOlympicsGuy
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#5831
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#5831
(Original post by ukip72)
Salmond dodged the question, which he spent the whole evening doing. As Alistair Darling pointed out, Salmond has plenty of great lines but no real answers.
That doesn't really matter the vote is about an independent Scotland, which will most likely following the first election not be lead by Salmond. The vote's closer than at any time during the contest in polls, people need to start waking up to the fact it might happen. It could get very close, and if it's won by less than 400,000 - as I assume it will be now we need to start asking questions about the 400,000 non-Scottish voters allowed to vote - there votes should be tracked and excluded.
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ukip72
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#5832
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#5832
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
This is one of the reasons so many of us feel drawn to independence. Opinion polls suggest the Scottish public are much more positive to the EU than people in the rest of the UK. What if there is an EU referendum which votes to leave the EU, but Scotland as a whole votes to stay in yet is dragged out anyway? That's a very realistic scenario.
If Scotland votes in favour of the United Kingdom then they will have to accept the result of a UK wide EU referendum in future.

Do you not see the SNP's position as contradictory? They are a nationalist party fighting for independence from Westminster yet are in favour of EU membership for an independent Scotland What happens when Scotland is required to transfer powers to the ever expanding EU empire?
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Blue Meltwater
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#5833
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#5833
(Original post by CrazyOlympicsGuy)
That doesn't really matter the vote is about an independent Scotland, which will most likely following the first election not be lead by Salmond. The vote's closer than at any time during the contest in polls, people need to start waking up to the fact it might happen. It could get very close, and if it's won by less than 400,000 - as I assume it will be now we need to start asking questions about the 400,000 non-Scottish voters allowed to vote - there votes should be tracked and excluded.
Oops, I liked your post while reading the bit about Salmond not leading a post-independence government, then got to the bit about excluding non-Scottish voters. Needless to say, I don't endorse that sentiment.
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ukip72
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#5834
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#5834
(Original post by CrazyOlympicsGuy)
That doesn't really matter the vote is about an independent Scotland, which will most likely following the first election not be lead by Salmond. The vote's closer than at any time during the contest in polls, people need to start waking up to the fact it might happen. It could get very close, and if it's won by less than 400,000 - as I assume it will be now we need to start asking questions about the 400,000 non-Scottish voters allowed to vote - there votes should be tracked and excluded.
So you agree that Salmond couldn't answer the question then?
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Blue Meltwater
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#5835
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#5835
(Original post by ukip72)
If Scotland votes in favour of the United Kingdom then they will have to accept the result of a UK wide EU referendum in future.
I guess that's true enough, but that's why I want us to vote Yes! Also, in the event this did happen I imagine it would cause a surge of support for independence in Scotland.

(Original post by ukip72)
Do you not see the SNP's position as contradictory? They are a nationalist party fighting for independence from Westminster yet are in favour of EU membership for an independent Scotland What happens when Scotland is required to transfer powers to the ever expanding EU empire?
Not at all. Independence has never been about isolationism or 'going it alone' - if anything, it's about letting us become part of the international community and Europe on our own terms.
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Saracen's Fez
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#5836
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#5836
It'll be interesting to see also if Spain veto an independent Scotland's EU application.
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CrazyOlympicsGuy
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#5837
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#5837
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
Oops, I liked your post while reading the bit about Salmond not leading a post-independence government, then got to the bit about excluding non-Scottish voters. Needless to say, I don't endorse that sentiment.
Why not - Scottish voters living in the rest of Britain are excluded from voting - but non-Scottish voters are allowed to vote by virtue of the fact they've lived their a little while. It's the wrong way round.

(Original post by ukip72)
So you agree that Salmond couldn't answer the question then?
No I agree that Salmond didn't answer the question fully in a debate chaired by a useless moderator with a petulant child for an opponent and was doomed to not be able to get the point across under extreme time restraint. He can answer the question and has answered the question numerous times, the currency options for Scotland are detailed and are available to everyone with internet or access to a library - most people in Scotland except the sheepshaggers in the highlands. Salmond debated issues that haven't been resolved rather than bending to the Westminster lead *******s that the currency will kill an independent Scotland.

I'm English by the way, I just want Scotland gone and to watch them blossom independently so that the north - my home - can hopefully follow suit with devolution in English regions coming through eventually.
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ukip72
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#5838
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#5838
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
I guess that's true enough, but that's why I want us to vote Yes! Also, in the event this did happen I imagine it would cause a surge of support for independence in Scotland.

Not at all. Independence has never been about isolationism or 'going it alone' - if anything, it's about letting us become part of the international community and Europe on our own terms.
The way the EU is going though you cannot be EU members on your own terms. The way I see it Scotland will be required to integrate further with the EU until Scotland has been wiped off the map. The UK has discovered that we cannot remain EU members on our own terms and we are a far more influential country than an independent Scotland would be, that's why we are heading towards the exit door.
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CrazyOlympicsGuy
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#5839
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#5839
(Original post by O133)
It'll be interesting to see also if Spain veto an independent Scotland's EU application.
The will try but their neighbours to the north will kindly remind them about the Auld Alliance and what might happen to Spain if they continued throw there toys out the pram like petulant children - (to steal a phrase from Thunder and Jazz, he still around?) - if European Union were to, as I expect will happen in the next 20-30 years disband.
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Rakas21
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#5840
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#5840
(Original post by CrazyOlympicsGuy)
That doesn't really matter the vote is about an independent Scotland, which will most likely following the first election not be lead by Salmond. The vote's closer than at any time during the contest in polls, people need to start waking up to the fact it might happen. It could get very close, and if it's won by less than 400,000 - as I assume it will be now we need to start asking questions about the 400,000 non-Scottish voters allowed to vote - there votes should be tracked and excluded.
That would be highly illegal. You'd have to change the rules and hold another referendum.
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