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    Oi! Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Oi! Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
    What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
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    The more i look into it the more i am now certain remain simply must win or we are doomed.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    I'm enjoying Juncker campaigning for Brexit. He said the following on further negotiations at a press conference today:

    'British voters have to know there will be no kind of any negotiation. We have concluded a deal with the prime minister. He got the maximum he could receive, and we gave the maximum we could give, so there will be no kind of renegotiation.'
    Is is disgraceful the anti-Brexit campaign still campaigns on the basis that reform is a continuous process with more change when Britain votes to stay.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Is is disgraceful the anti-Brexit campaign still campaigns on the basis that reform is a continuous process with more change when Britain votes to stay.
    Except it is... The EU is always reforming and amending its treaties...
    Also junker leaves in 2019. And a new president is likely to be more amenable to reform. (Look at the EU presidential candidates debates)
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Except it is... The EU is always reforming and amending its treaties...
    Also junker leaves in 2019. And a new president is likely to be more amenable to reform. (Look at the EU presidential candidates debates)
    Let the electorate be under no false image, the direction of the EU is closer monetary, fiscal, and political union, to claim Britain can be in the EU but slowly reform its relationship with the EU to be more focused on trade is a lie.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Let the electorate be under no false image, the direction of the EU is closer monetary, fiscal, and political union, to claim Britain can be in the EU but slowly reform its relationship with the EU to be more focused on trade is a lie.
    No I agree that the EU will become more intergrated and I belive that we should be going for it whole heartedly. But in terms of democracy, systems ect. They can definitely be reformed.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    No I agree that the EU will become more intergrated and I belive that we should be going for it whole heartedly. But in terms of democracy, systems ect. They can definitely be reformed.
    But why? I don't get what you have against nation state democracy. Surely, by your logic then, we should disband all councils and all devolved institutions and centralise power in Westminster?
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    (Original post by Aph)
    No I agree that the EU will become more intergrated and I belive that we should be going for it whole heartedly. But in terms of democracy, systems ect. They can definitely be reformed.
    The system can be reformed if all 28 member states agree to the reform, however, the reforms will likely reduce the influence of some member states making reforms impossible.
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    https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2...important.html
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    But why? I don't get what you have against nation state democracy. Surely, by your logic then, we should disband all councils and all devolved institutions and centralise power in Westminster?
    I have nothing against democracy... Other than the stupidity of voters. I also belive in devolution for certain things. I simply belive as a nation we are stronger in the EU as one of 500 million and not turning our back on them.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I have nothing against democracy... Other than the stupidity of voters. I also belive in devolution for certain things. I simply belive as a nation we are stronger in the EU as one of 500 million and not turning our back on them.
    And how do you define stupidity, presumably those who are against your views you would count in that bracket? Then why can't you see that being friendly with Europe and having a trade only relationship with the EU is the best way forward. No-one is saying that we don't want to work with Europe, but we don't want to be governed by them.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    And how do you define stupidity, presumably those who are against your views you would count in that bracket? Then why can't you see that being friendly with Europe and having a trade only relationship with the EU is the best way forward. No-one is saying that we don't want to work with Europe, but we don't want to be governed by them.
    People who use nationalistic or emotive arguments or fall for lies.
    Because I want us to be in an eu superstate.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    People who use nationalistic or emotive arguments or fall for lies.
    Because I want us to be in an eu superstate.
    So effectively it's skewing the results so that you get what you want, because that's fair :rolleyes: So under your reasoning, I wouldn't be allowed to vote then? The idea of an EU superstate is evil, depriving people of their national identity and only leading to mass unrest.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Nowhere does the HoC say that.
    The total also excluded all our common laws which are not in statutory form such as murder.

    The real number if we take the common law into account will be far below even the 13% figure.
    Ummm, it's the beginning of the penultimate paragraph of the "improving the estimate" section...

    And perhaps you misunderstand how common law works

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    (Original post by toronto353)
    So effectively it's skewing the results so that you get what you want, because that's fair :rolleyes: So under your reasoning, I wouldn't be allowed to vote then? The idea of an EU superstate is evil, depriving people of their national identity and only leading to mass unrest.
    A 'national identity' is a myth. There is nothing more linking me and some bloke in Portsmouth than there is linking me and some bloke in Marseille.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    So effectively it's skewing the results so that you get what you want, because that's fair :rolleyes: So under your reasoning, I wouldn't be allowed to vote then? The idea of an EU superstate is evil, depriving people of their national identity and only leading to mass unrest.
    See, nationalism is stupid. It only divides people. The fact that you call it "evil" is laughable. Countries have no inherent right to exist. Also a uniting European superpower with the biggest economy in the world can be nothing but good.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Except it is... The EU is always reforming and amending its treaties...
    Also junker leaves in 2019. And a new president is likely to be more amenable to reform. (Look at the EU presidential candidates debates)
    It's always reforming... In the complete opposite direction to that which the vast majority want it to in Britain

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    (Original post by Aph)
    See, nationalism is stupid. It only divides people. The fact that you call it "evil" is laughable. Countries have no inherent right to exist. Also a uniting European superpower with the biggest economy in the world can be nothing but good.
    So you liked the British empire and would have it back?
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    (Original post by Aph)
    People who use nationalistic or emotive arguments or fall for lies.
    Because I want us to be in an eu superstate.
    So some of those you disagree with and an indefinable group?

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