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    (Original post by vander Beth)
    West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette says nobody has to say it.
    Wasn't aware of that, thanks
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    (Original post by A short guy)
    You have to say that every morning!? it sounds more like something your prime minister would say when he gets elected
    As First Lord of Treasury, our Prime Minister, says it once after he receives the title.

    No I do not say it every morning!

    If we try to be patriotic at occasions other than world sporting events then we are viewed to a certain extent as being far right or racist.

    No one in Britain ever swears oaths of loyalty and obedience to the government, country, or people, it's always to the monarch. Good old Lizzy
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    Sigh, there isn't anything that I really see as a problem. Most places allow you to refuse if you want. You talk about patriotism as if it were a bad thing. It's sad really you would think that you would want to support your country even if you don't agree with the legal system or the current pm / president. I guess it is just something that I do not understand, I realize what it took to create this country, maybe it's because I grew up in a military family
    Isn't US patriotism more about liberty and autonomy than blind obedience to whatever the status quo political system happens to be? I mean, people who fought for the Crown against the French and Spanish colonies were still involved in the revolution. American patriotism has always been, at least in the past 100 or so years, a strange intermixing of these libertarian, historical elements, and the newer more nazi elements like the pledge of allegiance. The latter really do not appeal to me, even though I like America quite a lot.
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    (Original post by fredo22)
    No one in Britain ever swears oaths of loyalty and obedience to the government, country, or people, it's always to the monarch. Good old Lizzy
    Because the monarch is the embodiment of the state.
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    Sigh, there isn't anything that I really see as a problem. Most places allow you to refuse if you want. You talk about patriotism as if it were a bad thing. It's sad really you would think that you would want to support your country even if you don't agree with the legal system or the current pm / president. I guess it is just something that I do not understand, I realize what it took to create this country, maybe it's because I grew up in a military family

    :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep:
    :shakehand:
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    What are you ON about 'this country owns this country'? I have the right to say or declare whatever the hell I want to and no one can force me to do anything of the sort. And no, I won't ******* leave. We live in a DEMOCRACY with FREEDOM. It's not a case of 'say the oath to the queen or leave'. Try and make me.
    part of your rights and your freedom is taking responsibility or did you not get taught in school about this? Well, I was in a crap school back in the philippines compared to the 'high class' education here in Britain but I definitely remember that for every right you have, you have a responsibility over it... **** i was in a 3rd world getting taught about this. The allegiance t your country is like making a promise that you will take responsibility as a citizen to your country... and take part of the responsibility to uphold those freedom and rights that the country gives to you.
    and by the way, do you guys know there is an option where you can take the oath without mentioning God?
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    And this is when I leave the conversation as I took neither Politics or History. LOL.

    Goodnight xx
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    (Original post by Tut.exe)
    part of your rights and your freedom is taking responsibility or did you not get taught in school about this? Well, I was in a crap school back in the philippines compared to the 'high class' education here in Britain but I definitely remember that for every right you have, you have a responsibility over it... **** i was in a 3rd world getting taught about this. The allegiance t your country is like making a promise that you will take responsibility as a citizen to your country... and take part of the responsibility to uphold those freedom and rights that the country gives to you.
    He may believe that rights are things people are endowed with naturally, rather than being granted to them by states in exchange for obligations of service. In fact that latter sounds rather like feudalism.
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    (Original post by Collingwood)
    The US pledge of allegiance was thought up by a nazi who also made US schoolchildren give the Nazi salute:



    This latter aspect was only removed in 1942 when the war made it impolitic.

    Britain has tended to be more wary of its governments.
    A Nazi? Don't be silly.
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    (Original post by Collingwood)
    Isn't US patriotism more about liberty and autonomy than blind obedience to whatever the status quo political system happens to be? I mean, people who fought for the Crown against the French and Spanish colonies were still involved in the revolution. American patriotism has always been, at least in the past 100 or so years, a strange intermixing of these libertarian, historical elements, and the newer more nazi elements like the pledge of allegiance. The latter really do not appeal to me, even though I like America quite a lot.
    Yes it has always been about that I value the premise on which our country was found more than that of the current people leading it. All governments can be corrupt. However you should be able to see past that to support the country to which has cared and protected you since you were young. Even if it is not the one you were born in.

    (Original post by Vodkaslur)
    :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep:
    :shakehand:
    :yep:
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    (Original post by Arekkusu)
    A Nazi? Don't be silly.
    A nazi is a national socialist. Bellamy is chiefly regarded as a socialist today, but he himself called the ideology Nationalism, and it envisioned full nationalisation of the economy, industrial conscription and the replacement of common law trials and juries with state boards. He was not anti-semitic, but his ideology was substantively fascist.
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    (Original post by Vodkaslur)
    As you are from this country ? The country owns this country so if you don't like it you may leave lol ?

    All this .. "No football shirts in pubs" and the fact we hardly celebrate St. Georges day may be a cause of this perhaps?

    i never had to take an oath. **** the queen she can suck my ****. n i aint goin no where.

    as for the football shirts idea. that was clearly some out of touch idiot in parliment who thought to tell the police how to do their job. also notice how it isnt being enforced. it was just a letter of suggestion to pub land lords in croydon. even if they did try and enforce it it wouldnt work anyway. as for st georges day no one really seemed to give a **** about that day anyway. matter of fact i saw more people this year(many of whom im sure ud consider foreign) celebrating st georges day then i ever have in my life.
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    Why do you feel the need to comment on everything I say Mick.W ?

    Go away ...
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    (Original post by Collingwood)
    He may believe that rights are things people are endowed with naturally, rather than being granted to them by states in exchange for obligations of service. In fact that latter sounds rather like feudalism.
    I think people here need to be taught about this... one of the reasons why i hate the schools here only teaches whats on the syllabus.
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    Yes it has always been about that I value the premise on which our country was found more than that of the current people leading it. All governments can be corrupt. However you should be able to see past that to support the country to which has cared and protected you since you were young. Even if it is not the one you were born in.


    :yep:
    Aaaah, you go to UTA.
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    (Original post by vander Beth)
    Aaaah, you go to UTA.
    :confused: Little confused what that has to do with anything :o:
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    :confused: Little confused what that has to do with anything :o:
    Nothing, but like a quarter of my old high school friends went there.
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    (Original post by vander Beth)
    Nothing, but like a quarter of my old high school friends went there.
    Oh cool are you from Texas then?
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    Oh cool are you from Texas then?
    Dallas. I just moved back with my dad.
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    (Original post by vander Beth)
    Dallas. I just moved back with my dad.
    Awesome I'm in Euless currently until I move into the dorms in a couple or so semesters not quite sure yet. What uni are you going to?
 
 
 
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