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    (Original post by lifeonmars)
    yeah kind of, but I much prefer Rousseau
    have you read any of his work? about the general will?
    amazing concept, (except for the women not being included as citizens )
    and looks great on paper, but too bad it'll never work practically....
    social contract is top
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    And you don't do yourself any favours by describing China as communist, they have for some time been pursuing a capitalist agenda. State-supervised capitalism is still capitalism.
    Agreed lol - even they have seen the light
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    Marx's ideology of having a disdain for capitalism shows, to the casual observer, little more than a personal hatred.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Having studied Marx at A level and reading some of his work i began to find myself agreeing with him on many points about capitalism. It exploits workers and the planet, the rich mainly benefit and in most cases own the means of production ect.

    But I did not follow his idea of a solution. The only conclusion I came to really was that capitalism is a bad thing but we don't have any other viable alternatives.

    Anyone else feel the same?
    If that is the case, then you clearly have not studied enough of Marxism and its sub-branches, such as Leninism, Trotskyism and Maoism, for example.

    I am yet to meet a person who has actually spent the time studying Marxism, but has instead proclaimed ones fundamental disagreement with it.
    Of course, there are many who claim to have, in a word, ‘Read all the books’, but when you question those who claim such, they reveal the truth; That they do not know anything about Marxism or Communism as a political ideology.
    It takes months of hard and dedicated study to even understand the basics of Marxism. To simply ‘study Marxism at A-Level (Which I also did by the way), and then come to a conclusion, is, to say the least, very unfortunate.

    When there is more than enough resources for every single person on this planet to survive and live a healthy lifestyle, but when 90% of those resources are concentrated within 10% of the population, I find it disturbing for you to claim ‘I do not believe there is a viable alternative’.

    (Original post by lifeonmars)
    yeah kind of, but I much prefer Rousseau
    have you read any of his work? about the general will?
    amazing concept, (except for the women not being included as citizens )
    and looks great on paper, but too bad it'll never work practically....
    By the way, the above person, unfortunately, is a great example of somebody who knows absolutely nothing of Socialism and/or Marxism.

    It almost makes me laugh (In a disturbing kind of way) when I speak to people on a personal level, let alone on a forum board, claim “Well Marxism works on paper, but not in practise”.
    As soon as I hear people claim this in reference to Marxism, I clearly understand that whom I am talking to knows absolutely nothing of Marxism, which is why they paraphrase the most spread statement and piece of propaganda against Marxism/Communism in circulation.
    As always, that same statement is repeated, but fortunately, those who know anything about Marxism can go a little more into detail than ‘It works on paper but not in practise’.

    Another most popular one is; “Communism would be great, but its too bad human nature won’t allow it to happen”.

    People who make such statements are nothing more than people trying to be smart, when in the face of people who know what they are talking about, achieve the complete opposite of making oneself look smart.
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    Ultimately the choice is between individualism and collectivism.

    If you want to become part of the Borg hive, choose socialism.

    If you want to live for your own sake instead of being sacrificed for "the greater good", choose capitalism.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Having studied Marx at A level and reading some of his work i began to find myself agreeing with him on many points about capitalism. It exploits workers and the planet, the rich mainly benefit and in most cases own the means of production ect.

    But I did not follow his idea of a solution. The only conclusion I came to really was that capitalism is a bad thing but we don't have any other viable alternatives.

    Anyone else feel the same?
    I agree with Marx and I think his solution is a great one.

    The reason why it isn't is because the human race are too selfish and too greedy to allow it to work.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    In all honesty part of the problem I had was from what I understood it seemed very vague other than getting rid of Capitalism and to a large extent the state, then allowing people to just do what they wanted.

    I don't know proberly more my problem of not understanding it fully.
    This is because Marx believed that capitalism would naturally stagnate and be replaced with socialism. However, the last 150 years have proved this theory incorrect.
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    I obviously also quite like Marx, although many of his views are obviously pretty outdated now. For instance, the idea of religion being a tool for control, a point I found dubious anyway, I think has really ended with the rise of spiritualism and the individualisation of religions.

    For my part I think Karl Marx's capitalism died a quiet death quite a while back now, although it is arguable the financiers of today are the factory owners of yesterday, and certainly public opinion seems at last to have turned on those financiers. I'm not entirely sure you can just up and abandon capitalism though, but certainly reform is needed to match a consumer driven world, and using the excuse of 'best of the worst' as a reason to not bother reforming I find quite irritating.
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    (Original post by yituool)
    This is because Marx believed that capitalism would naturally stagnate and be replaced with socialism. However, the last 150 years have proved this theory incorrect.
    Really? It seems to me the vast majority of Europe has turned towards Socialism, albeit a lite version, in the last 50 years.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    Capitalism seems to be unique however in that it is the first form of human civilisation which is genuinely capable of destoying, impoverishing and poisoning the environment on a global scale which threatens the very world we need to live in.
    Yeah, because none of this would happen under a socialist system...
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    A conservative that agrees with Marx's criticisms of a capitalist state is hard to come by.
    Not really. Anyone who has a decent understanding of political theory, whether they are conservative or not, can appreciate Marx's work.
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    Well that shouldn't be the case. Your political allegance should be advocated in some terminology of your views on poltical theory. What's the point of holding a belief if you don't want to carry it through to produce something? Basically you vote Tories but disagree with the monopoly government, entryism and upper-class explolitation. Sounds very contradicTORY
    You're failing to appreciate the difference between idealist and realistic values. Sure, most people would like a truly fair society, but most people wouldn't consider this a realistic goal in a modern society, and thus any encouragement of such reforms would be futile.
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    (Original post by yituool)
    Not really. Anyone who has a decent understanding of political theory, whether they are conservative or not, can appreciate Marx's work.
    Appreciation is one thing, agreement is another. Marx would have never advocated any of conservative ideological principles.
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    Appreciation is one thing, agreement is another. Marx would have never advocated any of conservative ideological principles.
    It is possible to agree with someone's ideas without them strictly being on the same side of the political spectrum as you. Political ideologies aren't as polarised and black and white as you seem to think. I personally take influence from and agree with thinkers from all over the field of political thought, I don't feel obliged to have any political alleigance to any one doctrine.

    And Tbf Marx had some rather right-wing leanings, especially with his alleged anti-semitism.
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    (Original post by NietzschanGuy)
    Really? It seems to me the vast majority of Europe has turned towards Socialism, albeit a lite version, in the last 50 years.
    But capitalism is still the dominant economic system in these countries. Marx predicted it would be completely replaced with a socialist system as soon as countries have the sufficient infrastructure, and capitalism is in stagnation. Capitalism has been in stagnation yet still survived, thus Marx's predictions were somewhat inaccurate.
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    (Original post by yituool)
    But capitalism is still the dominant economic system in these countries. Marx predicted it would be completely replaced with a socialist system as soon as countries have the sufficient infrastructure, and capitalism is in stagnation. Capitalism has been in stagnation yet still survived, thus Marx's predictions were somewhat inaccurate.
    Evidently so, I'm not much into long term predictions myself, although those who are might argue perhaps that Marx didn't define a specific time period. In any case that Marx was wrong on some points, as I said earlier, is a given, and personally I would prefer a degree of state Capitalism over abolition, but that's just my particular preference.
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    And welcome to the sort of conclusions you will draw from everything when you start doing academic work.

    The revolutionaries are those who argue something new.
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    (Original post by GBateman)
    I agree with Marx and I think his solution is a great one.

    The reason why it isn't is because the human race are too selfish and too greedy to allow it to work.
    That's like saying that flapping your hands is a great way to fly, it's newton's laws that suck.
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    I wouldn't say that's anything like what I said, to be honest.

    Communism is perfect in theory but because people are selfish and greedy it wouldn't work.

    That is what I was saying.
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      (Original post by yituool)
      Yeah, because none of this would happen under a socialist system...
      It's not much of a stretch to make the connection in capitalism's productive power combined with its widespread economic uncertainty as having generated the ongoing acceleration of the human population. At the same time capitalism's economic functioning is specifically dependent upon growth and growing consumerism. There is no such thing as steady-state capitalism, we've only had 200 years at the most of it in industrial form and look where we are already. Socialism's aims are different, they are based on the satisfaction of human needs for all (not, you know, supplying gold taps to the few) and on the kind of economic security which under capitalism only really allows the wealthy to curb their offspring rates. This is as much an environmental argument against capitalism as it is a social one.
     
     
     
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