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    It's getting incredibly boring. When the fees go up, people will just have to deal.

    I'm sure they'll find something else to whine about.
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    Lol education.
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    I am.

    STFU and get a frigging student loan. For god's sake. You won't have to pay it back until you can afford it anyway.

    I am however, annoyed that despite the increase in what we are paying ("paying") there are still cuts in department/university funding. Or at least that is what I am aware of.
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    (Original post by Laura-alice26)
    ok, so i get why people are upset, but its getting stupid!!
    so what people will have to pay more, a degree is worth more than £27,000 anyway!! and an education isnt a right! its something you earn from working hard, and it shouldnt just be handed to you.
    i really dont understand why people are so mad. if you want a degree that much you wont care about how much it costs, i sure as hell dont and i am not exactly rich or anything, i come from your average working class family.
    I completely 100% agree. Education is a right but not past 16/18 years old; to say university is a right is ridiculous and is implying 100% of students should ultimately go to University. This would just dilute the value of a degree because if everyone has one it's not special and therefore would not warrent a higer pay grade. Too many people are going to uni without a clue what they want to do and it's a joke....leave it to the people who have a clear plan and will make the most of it. There are too many people with great degrees that are put to waste due to the individual who doesn't make the most of it.
    After all that's what the government is trying to do by stopping subsidies so the cost of university it higher; to reduce the numbers going to Uni.
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    (Original post by ourlastmemory)
    I am however, annoyed that despite the increase in what we are paying ("paying") there are still cuts in department/university funding. Or at least that is what I am aware of.
    The reason the fees are increasing is because of the cuts in government funding for universities. Thus the universities won't actually be better off, and so despite paying 2 or 3 times more for the degree, people won't get a better education (and in some subjects where funding is being totally cut to zero, then people may get a worse education). That is part of the reason why people are angry.
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    (Original post by Oreon)
    Education is a right; it enables us to gain the knowledge we need to pursue jobs that we are naturally skilled at doing. Education = knowledge = freedom and therefore education is a right to freedom. What's more, if it wasn't an inalienable right, we wouldn't have free primary and secondary education, and one of the World Goals for 2015 wouldn't be the achievement of universal primary schooling! Everyone deserves the right to the sort of jobs they would excel at; it would benefit society as a result. The number of potential geniuses that will be restricted from top jobs as a result of mammoth tuition fees is horrifying. Having money does not give you a better right to knowledge than someone who is born into poverty.

    I could go on and on.....there are too many reasons why higher tuition fees is a bad idea, and why these protests are exactly what we need to ensure policies so damaging aren't ever put in place
    Education is a right up to A level as education to this level is needed for everyday life.

    You do not need a degree to get by in life you could easily live without it. Therefore its not a right.
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    (Original post by Cybele)
    What annoys me is the amount of police needed to oversee these protests because of a few idiots kicking off. At my uni there had to be one police officer for every protester, as well as police on horseback. I'm sure they have better things to do than babysit a bunch of students whining about Cameron. :facepalm2:
    You saw what happened when there were not enough police. They trashed and tried to occupy a building and the police got yelled at for not doing their job properly
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Education is a right up to A level as education to this level is needed for everyday life.

    You do not need a degree to get by in life you could easily live without it. Therefore its not a right.
    That is debatable. An awful lot of jobs now are asking for a degree. It doesn't matter if they actually need one to do the work or not, you won't even get an interview without a degree.

    In any case, if someone is intelligent enough, then why shouldn't they go to uni? Why should they be held back because of the cost of it?

    (Original post by Aj12)
    You saw what happened when there were not enough police. They trashed and tried to occupy a building and the police got yelled at for not doing their job properly
    What about yesterday in London? Where for the most part the police couldn't keep up with the protestors. It was peaceful yesterday until the police started to kettle them in again.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    The reason the fees are increasing is because of the cuts in government funding for universities. Thus the universities won't actually be better off, and so despite paying 2 or 3 times more for the degree, people won't get a better education (and in some subjects where funding is being totally cut to zero, then people may get a worse education). That is part of the reason why people are angry.
    Yeah, it isn't brilliant. I'm not denying that's a bad thing.
    It's just the "omgz not going to be able to afford to live going to have to leave the country/work in mcdonalds/kill myself" attitude that is really getting to me, because it will literally not make anybody worse off than they are already, and that's the argument that seems to be prevailing in these protests rather than the fact that there are direct cuts to the actual institutions.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    That is debatable. An awful lot of jobs now are asking for a degree. It doesn't matter if they actually need one to do the work or not, you won't even get an interview without a degree.

    In any case, if someone is intelligent enough, then why shouldn't they go to uni? Why should they be held back because of the cost of it?

    Anyone who fully understands the government plans will realise they are in a far better postion when they leave uni than they are now.

    What about yesterday in London? Where for the most part the police couldn't keep up with the protestors. It was peaceful yesterday until the police started to kettle them in again.
    From what I heard of the protest yesterday protesters started burning placards and trashing nelson's column leading to the police kettling them in and letting out small groups so they don't have to deal with massive groups of protesters all over London.

    Protesters responded to this by throwing fireworks.
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    (Original post by Poem boy)
    It is people like you that make Britain, the misreble foul smelling garbage heap of a country it is today.

    Education is a right and it should be free for all no matter what. The best countries in the world all have free education systems. If Britain carries on with this neoliberal route then we are all screwed.
    No, you undermine Britain. Go check her achievements because you appreciate none of it. I genuinely feel sick when I hear people calling Britain that.

    His point is still valid, those that wish to be educated will follow the course regardless of its price.

    The USA doesn't have a free education system what are you on about, they don't even have a free national healthcare system. The only country I can remember that has free university education is Scotland.
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    (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
    How will they be able to compete if their teaching budgets are being cut by 40% and their research grants are also being cut significantly. Take a look at this table,



    The UK will fall even further behind the likes of the USA, because their universities receive ridiculous sums of money in terms of endowment, and as a result, are able to attract the best academic scholars from around the world, and build the best facilities.

    Let's take an average highly rated UK university, say York. They get an endowment of £8.7 million from the government. Now let's take a counterpart from the US, say the University of Michigan. They get an $6.6 billion in endowment.

    Now let's take another example, regarding the higher end of the spectrum. Let's take Imperial College as an example. They get £276.6 million in terms of endowment (which is considerable compared to most in the UK). Now let's take a counterpart, say MIT. They get $8.3 billion a year.

    Finally, if we look at the very top end. Oxford get £3 billion. Harvard get $27.4 billion.

    So it's easy to conclude then, why the US universities are in a whole different galaxy in terms of academia. And the UK is only going to fall further behind, thanks to these cuts.
    Just wondering, where did you get those figures from? Seems like quite the gap in funding if true. :holmes:
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      (Original post by CB91)
      Just wondering, where did you get those figures from? Seems like quite the gap in funding if true. :holmes:
      I got the figures on university endowment from wikipedia. I got the figure for the 40% cuts in teaching budgets are from here (and here). And I got that table regarding the research budget cuts from this regional source.
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      (Original post by Aj12)
      From what I heard of the protest yesterday protesters started burning placards and trashing nelson's column leading to the police kettling them in and letting out small groups so they don't have to deal with massive groups of protesters all over London.

      Protesters responded to this by throwing fireworks.
      What rich people do not understand is the poorer people have a fear of debt. Rightly or wrongly, they will not want to take on £50,000 worth a debt.

      Well from what I have heard, it was initially the police who were violent. Kettling people in BEFORE they started to be violent. I suppose it depends who you listen to. But had the police actually used their brains, and not tried to kettle people right at the start of the protest, then it would have been a lot easier to police.
      But thats asking too much of them. (also note that most of the police had their ID numbers removed so they couldn't be identified - which is illegal).
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      (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
      I got the figures on university endowment from wikipedia. I got the figure for the 40% cuts from here (and here). And I got that table from this regional source.
      At places like Harvard, that is some crazy amount of money. :eek:
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      (Original post by Threepigs)
      I see. But won't it be difficult to pay off that loan especially if you're focusing on getting a mortgage in the future too?
      True, but isn't that the same with nearly everyone that has to get a loan? There are not that many families that have that sort of money lying around just waiting to be spent.
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      (Original post by WelshBluebird)
      What rich people do not understand is the poorer people have a fear of debt. Rightly or wrongly, they will not want to take on £50,000 worth a debt.

      Well from what I have heard, it was initially the police who were violent. Kettling people in BEFORE they started to be violent. I suppose it depends who you listen to. But had the police actually used their brains, and not tried to kettle people right at the start of the protest, then it would have been a lot easier to police.
      But thats asking too much of them. (also note that most of the police had their ID numbers removed so they couldn't be identified - which is illegal).
      You lot are thick as ****.

      The 'debt' is only going to be paid once you are in a position to afford it after you have finished uni. You don't walk in on day one of Uni and hand over £27,000 to the receptionist.

      Furthermore the police were very soft on the protesters on the first day of protesting but after they started wrecking police vans, buildings, starting fires, assaulting police officers and throwing fire extinguishers off buildings they proved themselves not to be trusted so you can't blame the police for being pre-emptive.
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      (Original post by obins)
      You lot are thick as ****.

      The 'debt' is only going to be paid once you are in a position to afford it after you have finished uni. You don't walk in on day one of Uni and hand over £27,000 to the receptionist.

      Furthermore the police were very soft on the protesters on the first day of protesting but after they started wrecking police vans, buildings, starting fires, assaulting police officers and throwing fire extinguishers off buildings they proved themselves not to be trusted so you can't blame the police for being pre-emptive.
      So we are thick for having a fear of exactly what caused the recession? (ie debt).
      I'm sorry, try going to someone who comes from a family who has grown up on £10,000 a year and then telling them if they want to go to uni to better themselves, they have to spend that much on tuition fees alone. You'll get no where. I'm not saying its right, but people in that position do not want to think about that much debt. In any case, there was a report out a few days back saying that the majority of people will pay MORE than what they do now, not less.

      And you can blame the police for being pre-emptive. Because it is arguably illegal.
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      (Original post by mbiggs1)
      I don't care about the protests but if they continue to become violent then it will cause the government to see us as immature kids and we won't be taken seriously.
      Oh they've gone past that. Most people who aren't students or lecturers worried about their jobs just see it all as a laughing stock now. I think giving them higher fees will make them wake up and realise there's a real world out there where nothing is free.

      I stopped taking notice of the protests when they smashed up that building in London. In fact the only thing I can remember about that day is a bunch of lunatics smashing up a building. Do I want them to get more money for free on top of the legal, policing and damage costs they've incurred on the country that day and since then? Hell no.

      But it's difficult for me to support a rise since I've been through university already. If it came to a public vote I'd probably be neutral.
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      (Original post by WelshBluebird)
      So we are thick for having a fear of exactly what caused the recession? (ie debt).
      I'm sorry, try going to someone who comes from a family who has grown up on £10,000 a year and then telling them if they want to go to uni to better themselves, they have to spend that much on tuition fees alone. You'll get no where. I'm not saying its right, but people in that position do not want to think about that much debt. In any case, there was a report out a few days back saying that the majority of people will pay MORE than what they do now, not less.

      And you can blame the police for being pre-emptive. Because it is arguably illegal.
      Yeah exactly - and if we continue to let over 50% of young people to study bull**** degrees at bull**** universitys who will then spend a year 'finding themselves' before ending up working in a resturant as a waiter what will we get? Even more debt. The new way fees will be paid will mean you only ever pay it back once you are earning a certain amount of money. What part of this do you morons not understand?

      The person growing up on a small amount of money will ONLY REPAY THE FEES ONCE HE'S EARNING AT LEAST £25,000.

      And being pre-emptive is illegal is it? Thats news to me and I'm actually a Police Officer. What section is this new law under? Section 78 of the ignorant hippy student act?
     
     
     
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