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who else hopes England's World cup Bid..... Watch

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      (Original post by py0alb)
      Do you ever post anything that isn't about the evils of capitalism?

      I can picture the scene:

      "Hey Oswy, fancy a pint?"

      Oswy: "The British public house is a well known method of capitalist oppression and exploitation of the proletariat since 1784 when....."

      "You know what, nevermind"
      Actually I'm interested in lots of subjects but I do seem drawn to discussions that involve the issue of capitalism, i.e. the kind of society we live in. Because it is such a dominating force, and because I have a marxist orientation, I can't help but look at contemporary debates on all kinds of topics without considering what part 'it' is playing. I guess it all depends on "where you're at" at the philosophical and theoretical level, plenty of posters here discuss subjects with intense interest but with no obvious interest in looking at "the big picture" or what kind of unseen forces might be at work. Football is a highly commercialised activity these days, for example, it is a great example of a globalised capitalist enterprise, it's easily a mistake, therefore, not to thus examine what is going on in football in that context of capitalism.

      But hey, you wanna talk about films, I'll talk about films. Have you seen The Edukators?
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      (Original post by Oswy)
      Actually I'm interested in lots of subjects but I do seem drawn to discussions that involve the issue of capitalism, i.e. the kind of society we live in. Because it is such a dominating force, and because I have a marxist orientation, I can't help but look at contemporary debates on all kinds of topics without considering what part 'it' is playing. I guess it all depends on "where you're at" at the philosophical and theoretical level, plenty of posters here discuss subjects with intense interest but with no obvious interest in looking at "the big picture" or what kind of unseen forces might be at work. Football is a highly commercialised activity these days, for example, it is a great example of a globalised capitalist enterprise, it's easily a mistake, therefore, not to thus examine what is going on in football in that context of capitalism.

      But hey, you wanna talk about films, I'll talk about films. Have you seen The Edukators?

      No, is it good?

      Is it also about the evils of capitalism? :cool:
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        (Original post by py0alb)
        No, is it good?

        Is it also about the evils of capitalism? :cool:
        Yes and yes But seriously, it is an enjoyable film, even if the philosophy and politics were to be ignored or went unnoticed.
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        (Original post by Oswy)
        Yes and yes But seriously, it is an enjoyable film, even if the philosophy and politics were to be ignored or went unnoticed.
        I always find Marxists interesting, they're a bit like Freudists. Do you not find it illuminating that the vast majority of academics moved beyond Marxism to something a little more sophisticated a long time ago? That's not to say that I don't think Marxism has any merit, its just a little... clumsy.
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        (Original post by Oswy)
        What we have seen in football, and other sports, in recent years, is the power of capitalism to infiltrate and pervert the sport itself, beyond merely 'supporting' it and helping it grow. Presumably you're aware of all the betting scandals in which sportsmen have been lured by the power of money to cheat, lose games, or at least do something specific at a certain point in the game, for money. Elsewhere the power of capital to, say, determine where major sporting events will take place, is considered a potential issue. Some argue that the location of future world cups is being driven by the fact that locations that require major building programmes are being favoured because they will mean fifa-approved subcontracting, an easy scenario of bribery. Capitalism is, ultimately, a corrupting force, yes it pays for the technology and the equipment, but the virtues of the sports themselves are progressively drown out under the clamour of sponsorship, betting scandals and the like.
        What a load of drivel.
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          (Original post by py0alb)
          I always find Marxists interesting, they're a bit like Freudists. Do you not find it illuminating that the vast majority of academics moved beyond Marxism to something a little more sophisticated a long time ago? That's not to say that I don't think Marxism has any merit, its just a little... clumsy.
          Given that the overriding ideological force in the era of capitalism is, unsurprisingly, the ideology of capitalism itself I wouldn't expect marxism to hold a position of orthodoxy or popularity. For some time now the institution of the university, the global centre of academia, has been turning ever more deeply towards a business agenda. As an increasingly obvious instrument of capitalism it's hardly surprising that the room given to critiques of capitalism is going to be a diminishing one. I'm also not sure what you mean by 'a little more sophisticated' here. There are alternatives to marxist theory, as well as modified versions, but they aren't in any obvious sense characterised by sophistication (whatever that is meant to convey) relative to marxism. If anything marxism stands out as among those analytical approaches which has particularly ambitious and totalising aims whereas many theories within, say, the social sciences, have much narrower scope. I guess it's pretty easy to suggest that marxism is 'clumsy' but such a vague 'critique' doesn't really say anything about marxism or reveal what level of understanding you have regarding it.
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            (Original post by usainlightning)
            What a load of drivel.
            Wow, you really countered my points there, way to go.
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            (Original post by Oswy)
            Given that the overriding ideological force in the era of capitalism is, unsurprisingly, the ideology of capitalism itself I wouldn't...

            As an increasingly obvious instrument of capitalism it's hardly surprising that the room given to critiques of capitalism is going to be a diminishing one....
            You sound like a Marxist dictator. Full of passionate language which is often reflected in Das Kapital.
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              (Original post by py0alb)
              So have the US, for all intents and purposes. I hope Qatar win that one. I don't see the point in taking world cups to highly developed nations like the US and Australia where football already gets plenty of exposure, but still comes a distant third to several other sports.
              Additionally, this blog suggests that Qatar's hosting is an opportunity to direct attention in the region away from fundamentalism and extremism, and towards "global secular culture". It might be a way of using football to attain social and cultural aims.
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              (Original post by Oswy)
              Wow, you really countered my points there, way to go.
              There was nothing to counter. It was just a paragraph of wittering and rambling. Drivel in other words.
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                (Original post by usainlightning)
                There was nothing to counter. It was just a paragraph of wittering and rambling. Drivel in other words.
                Yeah, dude, keep telling yourself that.
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                  (Original post by Kolya)
                  Additionally, this blog suggests that Qatar's hosting is an opportunity to direct attention in the region away from fundamentalism and extremism, and towards "global secular culture". It might be a way of using football to attain social and cultural aims.
                  That idea isn't too distant to the the arguments David Harvey makes in his book The Enigma of Capital. Harvey argues that market saturation in the west is driving capitalist enterprises to try ever harder to open up new markets in geographies which have been traditionally resistant to, or maybe just disinterested in, secular western-style life, i.e. life dominated by the consumerism which is the life-blood of capitalism. When it comes to traditional Islamic regions it's not that easy to simply turn up with capitalism for its own sake and so things like global sporting events can act like trojan horses. Obviously this capitalist function has a common bedfellow in the political aims of the neoliberals more generally.
                 
                 
                 
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