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    (Original post by Aj12)
    But those are just the diplomatic cabels. All the stuff on wikileaks is now just aimed at the USA.

    They used to have loads but much of that seems to have gone now
    What are you even talking about?

    If the info is obtained from US computers then obviously it is going to be about the USA.

    There's loads of stuff on other countries.
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    (Original post by AndroidLight)
    What are you even talking about?

    If the info is obtained from US computers then obviously it is going to be about the USA.

    There's loads of stuff on other countries.
    Everything on Wikileaks now is purely about the US. The only reason anything on there is about other countries is because it is to do with the US. WHy are there no documents on Chinese corruption and on Chinese cover ups. Its all about the USA
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Everything on Wikileaks now is purely about the US. The only reason anything on there is about other countries is because it is to do with the US. WHy are there no documents on Chinese corruption and on Chinese cover ups. Its all about the USA
    Cause they can't pick and choose who leaks them info?

    Oh and..
    Angry Obama is angry


    Any reason IMG code is disabled btw? :/
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Everything on Wikileaks now is purely about the US. The only reason anything on there is about other countries is because it is to do with the US. WHy are there no documents on Chinese corruption and on Chinese cover ups. Its all about the USA
    If the USA is at the centre of a political storm, then the leaks are inevitably going be about it. The question is a tautology in any case but the fact remains that Wikileaks doesn't choose who leaks what to it. China is a much more impenetrable country, especially in terms of cyberspace. The USA is unsurprisingly bare in its computer security because they didn't think it would be an important weapon for the future. Well, now they're on the back foot and facing the consequences.
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    (Original post by Saichu)
    Not saying I agree or disagree with wikileaks, but your thesis itself is wrong: a well-informed electorate is more democratic than an ill-informed one. Whether or not information leads to self-destruction is another question, unrelated to wikileaks.
    WikiLeaks undermines the democracy that exists today and now.

    Fair point about a well-informed electorate being more democratic, but much of what WikiLeaks informs that electorate about is not really what the electorate wants to know or really should know.

    Look at the stuff about Liam Fox and the Pakistani voters - what he said exemplifies the reality of politics in general - however by leaking it anti-realists lose confidence in politicians and in the realities of government, one day leading to anarchy.
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    Lol so much hate on the OP. 6 Thumbs down.
    Much of what WikiLeaks does is just for pure embarrassment not for any particular public gain. I suppose a lot of you just hate the establishment.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Everything on Wikileaks now is purely about the US. The only reason anything on there is about other countries is because it is to do with the US. WHy are there no documents on Chinese corruption and on Chinese cover ups. Its all about the USA
    I can't access the site right now, and not sure where the temporary site is. But when I went on a few months ago, there was lots of stuff on other countries. Stuff like the Icelandic banks. I can't recall any other examples as I only had a quick look through and also due to there being way too much for me to want too look through. Your idea that it's anti-USA website does not hold. Maybe the reason they have so much dirt on the USA is because of the USA having a lot of dirt hidden? Isn't the point to make governments not fear leaks, as if they haven't done anything wrong they have nothing to hide. That does not hold true for the government of the USA.
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    (Original post by TheRevolution)
    WikiLeaks undermines the democracy that exists today and now.

    Fair point about a well-informed electorate being more democratic, but much of what WikiLeaks informs that electorate about is not really what the electorate wants to know or really should know.

    Look at the stuff about Liam Fox and the Pakistani voters - what he said exemplifies the reality of politics in general - however by leaking it anti-realists lose confidence in politicians and in the realities of government, one day leading to anarchy.
    The collateral murder video, which I haven't seen any other orginisation produce anything similar to it, is something we shouldn't know? That's absurd. The American military killing civillians in a foreign country with no mercy, and maximum stupidity deserves to be known by all. How do we stop atrocities if we do not even know they're occurring?

    If the government is clean and acting with good morals, it has nothing to fear and wikileaks would only back it up.
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    (Original post by AndroidLight)
    I can't access the site right now, and not sure where the temporary site is. But when I went on a few months ago, there was lots of stuff on other countries. Stuff like the Icelandic banks. I can't recall any other examples as I only had a quick look through and also due to there being way too much for me to want too look through. Your idea that it's anti-USA website does not hold. Maybe the reason they have so much dirt on the USA is because of the USA having a lot of dirt hidden? Isn't the point to make governments not fear leaks, as if they haven't done anything wrong they have nothing to hide. That does not hold true for the government of the USA.
    That was a few months ago. After the Iraq files were released thats what the site became focused on. Its got nothing to do with freedom or exposing corrupt governments. Its one man trying to **** over the USA as much as he can.
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    (Original post by AndroidLight)
    The collateral murder video, which I haven't seen any other orginisation produce anything similar to it, is something we shouldn't know? That's absurd. The American military killing civillians in a foreign country with no mercy, and maximum stupidity deserves to be known by all. How do we stop atrocities if we do not even know they're occurring?

    If the government is clean and acting with good morals, it has nothing to fear and wikileaks would only back it up.
    The back up site is wikileaks.ch and there's a whole bunch of mirrors on there.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    That was a few months ago. After the Iraq files were released thats what the site became focused on. Its got nothing to do with freedom or exposing corrupt governments. Its one man trying to **** over the USA as much as he can.
    Ignorance. You assume wikileaks is run by one man because that's the only man you've seen in public.
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    (Original post by AndroidLight)
    The collateral murder video, which I haven't seen any other orginisation produce anything similar to it, is something we shouldn't know? That's absurd. The American military killing civillians in a foreign country with no mercy, and maximum stupidity deserves to be known by all. How do we stop atrocities if we do not even know they're occurring?

    These are exactly the kinds of leaks I would support. I told you the types I wouldn't.

    If the government is clean and acting with good morals, it has nothing to fear and wikileaks would only back it up.

    Not really the government's fault that such instances occured they were isolated events. However that's beside the point as the gov't was acting immoraly by covering it up.
    What you're saying now doesn't really detract from what the original point of the thread to be honest. You're not adressiong the ways I've said that it undermines the democracy we have today and is very dangerous to national security. There is a slippery slope to anarchy problem here also.
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    Why doesn't wikileaks.org permit me to access its site?
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    (Original post by ANARCHY__)
    The back up site is wikileaks.ch and there's a whole bunch of mirrors on there.
    Thanks
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    (Original post by AndroidLight)
    Ignorance. You assume wikileaks is run by one man because that's the only man you've seen in public.
    No not really. Im going by what gets posted on the site actually and how all infomation not directly related to the US has now disappeared off the site
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    (Original post by TheRevolution)
    What you're saying now doesn't really detract from what the original point of the thread to be honest. You're not adressiong the ways I've said that it undermines the democracy we have today and is very dangerous to national security. There is a slippery slope to anarchy problem here also.
    What are the ways it undermines democracy? Dangerous to national security? Those sound like weak excuses to not know what the governments get up to. We vote for them, we should know what they get up to with our support.

    How do you know that the latest leak of 250,000 cables doesn't contain more proof of US misconduct such as the collateral damage video? If this leak hadn't occurred than we would never have known. Supposedly for it threatening our national security? What about the security of others that the US powers decide to go and play around. Quite frankly that video alone, seeing what the US military can get up to on the streets of Iraq is a real eye opener and why more releases should be supported. The military, under the jurisdiction of the government, will cover up such events so that the public will never know what happened, as was the case with the video in Iraq.

    Edit: Site is down as it's been massively attacked (DOS) and thus has gone down. The main reason is though its domain name server has cancelled its hosting of the domain, I think at the request of the US government.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    No not really. Im going by what gets posted on the site actually and how all infomation not directly related to the US has now disappeared off the site
    I was talking about "Its one man trying to **** over the USA as much as he can."
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    Well put it this way, even shutting down wikileaks and jailing Assange will not be enough to prevent this type of setup happening again/continuing. In the way that the piratebay case has not ended illegal music downloads. Governments will have to get used to fighting what is, in effect, just another mutation in the intelligence war. It is surely more a reflection of human nature and the structure of the global population (primarily into 'nations') that Governing powers will always have things they want to keep hidden from the public, not always for the right reasons. I think this is unlikely to change, whatever the outcome of this particular incident or the morality of the issue as a whole.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    No not really. Im going by what gets posted on the site actually and how all infomation not directly related to the US has now disappeared off the site
    That's because it's only showing the most recent leaks. You can still actually download its previous leaks. Do you think Wikileaks is some kind of conspiracy theory or something?

    (Original post by AndroidLight)
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    No problem brother.
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    "WikiLeaks - a force to undermine democracy?" - The notion is of the biased assumption that society is in fact a democracy.

    One cannot ask a question like you have, as the very question you ask itself, is subject to critique.
 
 
 
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