Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Poorer students will now get 2 free years uni. another attack on middle income family Watch

    • Offline

      14
      (Original post by Winter Rain)
      To the both of you, I'm saying that those who's parents refuse to support them will find it just as difficult to pay for unviersity. If a person from a poor background and one from a wealthy, both get offers, because they worked hard, got into the same university, and neither of their parents helped. Either because they couldn't or because they won't. Why if the other one more entitled than the other when neither of them will have mummy deposit 5,000 a month in their bank account?

      I never said it was easy for those from a poor background, but that shouldn't make them more entitled to support, above all others, which is what you two seem to be saying.
      What you arent getting, is that family income has a much bigger effect than finances. The source that you didnt read shows that. The two people in your example are not equal, the poor one is carrying around an extra burden that had you bothered to read the source you would understand.
      Offline

      2
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by morecambebay)
      ...
      :congrats: You have been talking a hell of a lot of sense in this thread.

      (Original post by Winter Rain)
      But you still didn't answer my question, what is a child from a wealthy family suppose to do if their parents refuse to support them above the age of 18, and why should these children less entitled to get financial help?
      You are spectacularly naive. Even coming from a wealthy family, you are entitled to student support adequate for your education, and it is your parents' choice whether they want to make your life easier or not. Why should the government give tax breaks to students from wealthy households, when they are already FAR more likely to attend a top university anyway? There is a spectacular shortage of students from poor backgrounds at top universities.

      You are under the impression that as long as two students from households from either end of the income spectrum work equally hard, then they stand the same chance of getting into a top university.
      THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
      • Offline

        14
        (Original post by Samw1se)
        :congrats: You have been talking a hell of a lot of sense in this thread.

        .
        thank you
        Offline

        0
        ReputationRep:
        My situation is quite... strange?

        But long story short, I'm not eligible for grants and I'm sure if this policy is actually implemented I won't be eligible for it either. My parents refuse to pay for ANY of the costs and I'm not arguing with them because I understand their reasons: that I'm going to be an adult and this is for my own future therefore I should be the one paying for it. I agree

        Butttt it also means that I'm screwed. I guess I'll have to try and get a really good part time job, somehow.
        Offline

        16
        ReputationRep:
        (Original post by morecambebay)
        How exactly will you be 'struggling to pay the bill' when you wont have to pay it back 'until you are in high earning jobs' ?

        Hands up if you would live here all of your childhood so that you could get a couple of years free uni tuition?



        Being born poor puts children at an educational disadvantage, being born middle class doesnt.
        it's not the tuition fees that put the middle class in a dilemna, it's the maintenance loans.

        Middle class families find themselves in a position where they do not qualify for Maintenance grants due to the reasonable income but cannot afford to pay the entire maintenance needs; because realistically, a £3k maintenance loan will not cover food, uni stuff and accommodation
        Offline

        1
        ReputationRep:
        This is not quite fair.
        Offline

        12
        ReputationRep:
        (Original post by Cicerao)
        Maybe you might not be getting money off your parents, but I sure as hell if you got into any trouble they'd bail you out, if you were desperate for food they'd get you some. If you dropped out they'd take you back into their home. You and other middle class people may have a safety net, but many lower class people do not.

        And I'm sorry, if you're going to tell me your parents wouldn't do any of the above, you're bull****ting. Do not overestimate your own independence.
        Wholeheartedly agree. I don't even see why this is an argument. Those from poorer backgrounds are in most cases more in need of extra than those from more well-off families. It's simple!
        Offline

        0
        ReputationRep:
        Er seriously should I quite uni now then before I have to pay fees and start again after the propsals? Because my depts gonna be fing big the way things are now...
        • Offline

          14
          (Original post by Rooster523)
          it's not the tuition fees that put the middle class in a dilemna, it's the maintenance loans.

          Middle class families find themselves in a position where they do not qualify for Maintenance grants due to the reasonable income but cannot afford to pay the entire maintenance needs; because realistically, a £3k maintenance loan will not cover food, uni stuff and accommodation
          They can, they just choose to pay for other things instead...like a big garden, new kitchen or a nice holiday. when they choose to spend money on these luxaries, they are making the decision to have less money available for other things.

          Poor families dont have enough money to begin with.
          Middle income families do, they just dont spend it well.
          Offline

          0
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by Cicerao)
          Maybe you might not be getting money off your parents, but I sure as hell if you got into any trouble they'd bail you out, if you were desperate for food they'd get you some. If you dropped out they'd take you back into their home. You and other middle class people may have a safety net, but many lower class people do not.

          And I'm sorry, if you're going to tell me your parents wouldn't do any of the above, you're bull****ting. Do not overestimate your own independence.
          That is not true that all parents would do so. Maybe it's just where I'm from, but it's not usual to not recieve any help from your parents when you leave home, none! Students take loans, apply for support and take part take jobs. Not meaning to sound rude, but your parents might provide that safety net, please do not assume that everyone else are just as lucky as you.

          (Original post by morecambebay)
          What you arent getting, is that family income has a much bigger effect than finances. The source that you didnt read shows that. The two people in your example are not equal, the poor one is carrying around an extra burden that had you bothered to read the source you would understand.
          No, quite frankly I don't understand. If they were able to get the grades required to get into a university, through hard work, why would they not be able to survive on a student loan, same as many other students? If this extra buden didn't make the student unable to get the grades in the first place in your example so why should it be more of a problem after getting the place?

          (Original post by Samw1se)
          :congrats: You have been talking a hell of a lot of sense in this thread.

          You are spectacularly naive. Even coming from a wealthy family, you are entitled to student support adequate for your education, and it is your parents' choice whether they want to make your life easier or not. Why should the government give tax breaks to students from wealthy households, when they are already FAR more likely to attend a top university anyway? There is a spectacular shortage of students from poor backgrounds at top universities.

          You are under the impression that as long as two students from households from either end of the income spectrum work equally hard, then they stand the same chance of getting into a top university.
          THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
          Again, not meaning to sound rude, but I never stated they had equal chances of getting in, I was saying that IF they did both get into the same university, and neither recieved any help form their parents, why should one get help and not the other? Nor was I ever under this impression that their chances was equal i nthe first place, it's interesting why you guys jump to those conclusions. And once again, why are children's abilities to get help suppose to be affected by the parents' income?

          I can see how students from a wealthy background are likely to be supported by parents, but not everyone are. Just because someone has been fortunate in the past with parents sending them to a good school, it doesn't make it any easier for them to pay accomonation and fees then someone who did not have this advantage in the past if neither are recieving help from parents.
          Offline

          0
          ReputationRep:
          This money would be better spent on increasing maintenance grants/loans, which are what can be really restrictive. Tuition fees shouldn't stop anybody from going to uni, but living costs can.

          Having said that, for lots of poorer students I think the prospect of massive debt is more of a deterrent to going to uni, so this measure might help prevent that from happening. But I'm not really sure its fair, and like I said, it could be better spent.
          Offline

          2
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by Winter Rain)
          Why are children's abilities to get help suppose to be affected by the parents' income?

          I can see how students from a wealthy background are likely to be supported by parents, but not everyone are. Just because someone has been fortunate in the past with parents sending them to a good school, it doesn't make it any easier for them to pay accomonation and fees then someone who did not have this advantage in the past if neither are recieving help from parents.
          :facepalm2:

          Well how else do you propose they decide who gets extra support? Or should a billionaire's child receive the same support as a child whose parents are on minimum wage?
          Offline

          1
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by Anita B. Studin)
          My situation is quite... strange?

          But long story short, I'm not eligible for grants and I'm sure if this policy is actually implemented I won't be eligible for it either. My parents refuse to pay for ANY of the costs and I'm not arguing with them because I understand their reasons: that I'm going to be an adult and this is for my own future therefore I should be the one paying for it. I agree

          Butttt it also means that I'm screwed. I guess I'll have to try and get a really good part time job, somehow.
          Things may have changed since I applied in this regard, but it used to be that if you could evidence that you would receive no parental support you could be means tested in your own right. I don't know what would count as sufficient evidence though.
          Offline

          14
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by Winter Rain)
          That is not true that all parents would do so. Maybe it's just where I'm from, but it's not usual to not recieve any help from your parents when you leave home, none! Students take loans, apply for support and take part take jobs. Not meaning to sound rude, but your parents might provide that safety net, please do not assume that everyone else are just as lucky as you.
          I don't come from a middle class family.

          You, however, clearly do.
          Offline

          16
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by morecambebay)
          They can, they just choose to pay for other things instead...like a big garden, new kitchen or a nice holiday. when they choose to spend money on these luxaries, they are making the decision to have less money available for other things.

          Poor families dont have enough money to begin with.
          Middle income families do, they just dont spend it well.
          so my parents should be expected to live like a low income family with no luxuries just so I can go to university?



          Jog on
          • Offline

            14
            (Original post by Winter Rain)

            No, quite frankly I don't understand. If they were able to get the grades required to get into a university, through hard work, why would they not be able to survive on a student loan, same as many other students? If this extra buden didn't make the student unable to get the grades in the first place in your example so why should it be more of a problem after getting the place?

            .
            "unable" and "more of a proplem" are not the same thing are they?
            Something can be a problem without making somebody unable.

            Ill say it again because you are obviously having difficulty catching on... family income is about much much more than finances. Security, confidence, and opportunities would be three others.

            You seem to genuinely believe that money makes no difference to a person beyond its financial aspects, well...you're just wrong.

            A child from a poor family who gets onto the same university course as you, has worked and will have to work much harder than you.
            Offline

            0
            ReputationRep:
            (Original post by Cicerao)
            I don't come from a middle class family.

            You, however, clearly do.
            Why would you assume that I come from a middle class family?
            • Offline

              14
              (Original post by Rooster523)
              so my parents should be expected to live like a low income family with no luxuries just so I can go to university?



              Jog on
              There is nothing stopping you from going to university. If your parents want to make things easier for you though, they are going to have to accept that they cant have all the luxaries they want .
              Offline

              2
              ReputationRep:
              (Original post by Winter Rain)
              Why would you assume that I come from a middle class family?
              Let me think...
              Offline

              16
              ReputationRep:
              It's still making a gap. There are plenty of of kids who come from well off families whos parents won't pay for their university education, what about them?
             
             
             
          • See more of what you like on The Student Room

            You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

          • Poll
            What newspaper do you read/prefer?
          • See more of what you like on The Student Room

            You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

          • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

            Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

            Quick reply
            Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.