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David Cameron: "I am a Zionist..."? Watch

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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Of course, a Zionist is going to disagree with me, and I make no bones about the fact that whilst I hold strong arguments for what I believe in, there will be people who don't have the same opinion as me.

    In addition, when did I claim to be an Arab-nationalist? It's a typical way of subverting the truth, by pointing out something else and then trying to ignore the argument at heart. The reality is that Palestinians are in oppression. Israelis are not. 'Why?' we may ask - because of an ideology that promotes racial-nationalism, and translates in real terms into oppression, violence, occupation and in this case, subversion of the truth. If you think that's fair, amiable or justified, that's your thing - but don't try to make out that I have any obligation to agree with your abhorrent views.
    You are a Palestinian nationalist. You sympathise with the Palestinians and frequently call for a Palestinian majority state to come into existence, and the destruction of Israel. You support the subjugation of Israeli Jews at the hands of the mostly anti-liberal Palestinians. I think the fairest option is a two state solution that allows both parties to live in freedom, without fear of one side bombing the other. You don't, yet you are never asked to justify this.

    And again - of course, you're going to believe that Zionism is a tutti-frutti belief where nobody is hurt and Palestinians simply don't exist, that would be a much easier solution, after all, who wants those nasty Palestinians to exist? They're all natonalist terrorists hellbent on the destruction of Jews after all :rolleyes: - and anyway you were not born Arab or Palestinian, so you have everything to gain by promoting a nationalism that correlates with your personal persuasion - in this case, Jewish nationalism, so who cares about human rights, or morally justified political positions .
    This is exactly what you are doing. You are a Muslim, albeit secular, and you don't give two hoots about the right of the Jews to self-determination. I may not be Palestinian but I think they have a right to their self-determination too, just not at the expense of Israel, like you believe. Zionism is an ideology - Israel is a state. You are confusing the actions of Israel with the idea of Zionism, most probably to suit your own political ends and so you can show everyone how smart and caring you are. Well I'm not falling for it.

    That however, doesn't convince me. I am a humanitarian, a liberal progressive and believer in the freedom of all human beings to prosper without the threat of an oppressive force. I am just as much in opposition to the occupation of Palestine by 'Israel' as I am to the occupation of Western Sahara by Morocco, irrespective of the disparity between the Moroccan claim to WS and the racially motivated claim of Zionists on Palestine.
    Yet you don't support the right of the Jews to self-determination either? Shows just how humanitarian you are.

    Jake Pearson, you will never stop us humanitarians from fighting for Justice and Humanity.

    Think about it.
    Gee, now that you've underlined and emboldened an ad hominem statement, everything has been put into perspective. I can't thank you enough.
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    [QUOTE=JakePearson;28829523]You are a Palestinian nationalist. You sympathise with the Palestinians[quote]

    Oh GAWD. How dare I be sympathetic to a people who's human rights are being crushed by a regime that believes they ought to be "put on a diet". I'm clearly such a nationalist.

    and frequently call for a Palestinian majority state to come into existence
    I personally can not 'call' for any situation on Palestine except the right of Palestinians to a fair hearing where they democratically get to choose the future of their state be that a two state or one state solution. Either way, this is not Palestinian-nationalism, it is Anti-Zionism.

    and the destruction of Israel.
    Mere hyperbole and weasel-words. Would you regard the unification of Germany after the fall of the Berlin wall a "destruction"? No. I believe in the peaceful dismantling of the Zionist regime. Clearly when Israel was claimed as the Jewish Homeland (in its modern day political sense) it wasn't destroying anything, merely building a paradise upon a completely empty area :ahee: but now that Palestinians want human rights, they're DESTROYING EVERYTHING!!! :woo:

    Lol @ Zionists rewriting history :rolleyes:

    You support the subjugation of Israeli Jews
    In what sick and twisted world does campaigning for universal human rights to be applied to Palestinians constitute the 'subjugation of Israeli Jews', oh that's right, in the minds of Zionists. That is why Zionism is an abhorrent ideology. Because people like you subvert the truth and avert scrutiny, so you can continue to torture a people who have just as much a right to freedom and independence as any Israeli.

    at the hands of the mostly anti-liberal Palestinians.
    Let me guess, I'm an agent of HAMAS right?

    I think the fairest option is a two state solution that allows both parties to live in freedom, without fear of one side bombing the other.
    Fair enough, that's a fairly amiable goal. This however, doesn't address the fact that Zionism as its principal is a racist and wholly disgusting form of nationalism.

    You don't, yet you are never asked to justify this.
    I have justified my position on many occasions. You're more than welcome to disagree with my position, but you can't seriously be that deluded.

    This is exactly what you are doing. You are a Muslim, albeit secular
    :facepalm: You do actually realise what a 'Muslim' is don't you? And besides. I will decide what I am. I am an agnostic theist with no organised religion. And besides, what difference would it make even if I was a Muslim?

    and you don't give two hoots about the right of the Jews to self-determination.
    In a land that has historically been home to Arab Palestinians as well as Arab Jews, I do not support one race claiming the land for itself and actively discriminating against the very people who have been living in that nation for hundreds upon hundreds of years. Many Jews agree with me, and believe that Zionism is an oppressive and dangerous ideology. But of course "they don't count, they hate themselve" eh Jakey? So no, I don't support "Jewish self determination". By no means am I saying that Jews can not or should not live in a unified Palestinian state. There just can not be any exclusive claim to the land of Palestine simply due to your racist tendencies.

    I may not be Palestinian but I think they have a right to their self-determination too
    Good. However, 'Palestinian' is not a race or religion. 'Jew/Jewish' is, and an exclusively 'Jewish' state that claims the land for itself, when it historically hasn't belonged to them for the past several hundred years does not go down well with me.

    just not at the expense of Israel, like you believe.
    You mean Occupied-Palestine right?

    Zionism is an ideology - Israel is a state. You are confusing the actions of Israel with the idea of Zionism
    In a nation that constitutionally states that Arabs must cite a pledge to the exclusively Jewish run state, the state of Israel is the Zionist state.

    most probably to suit your own political ends
    As I have said time and time again, I am not Palestinian, I am not Arab, I am not a Muslim (even though you seem determined to believe I am??). I simply believe in the universal application of universal human rights. You see the common denominator there? :rolleyes: If you do not agree with my point of view, that's fine, but why delude yourself into thinking that everyone that you do not agree with is conspiring against you for their 'own political ends'? Are you seriously that messed up?

    and so you can show everyone how smart and caring you are. Well I'm not falling for it.
    Again, deluded. Is this how low you're willing to stoop simply to think you've won an argument? Very poor debating skills.

    Yet you don't support the right of the Jews to self-determination either? Shows just how humanitarian you are.
    No, because as I've stated time and time again, the claim to Saharawis to live independent in a land they've historically lived in before and after being claimed by the sovereign nation of Morocco is not the same as a race of Jews claiming Palestine for themselves and pushing the existing non-Jews/Palestinians out of the region and abusing their human rights.

    Gee, now that you've underlined and emboldened an ad hominem statement, everything has been put into perspective. I can't thank you enough.
    That's okay Jake, glad to be of service. Clearly you need guidance, just be thankful I'm around to set your facts straight
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Mere hyperbole and weasel-words...
    I'll respond to your drivel on the Israel/Palestine Conflict thread to avoid derailing this.
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    long live israel.
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    Being quite naive on the subject of Zionism, why is it taboo to declare it? (I understand what it means of course..)
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    (Original post by Summergirl.x)
    Being quite naive on the subject of Zionism, why is it taboo to declare it? (I understand what it means of course..)


    Because many people who wanted to delegitemise Israel could not use the term "Jews" after world war two. So they chose to focus on Jewish nationalism instead. Zionist doesnt sound like Jew, so the choice was simple and the whole movement was demonized. "Zionists controll the media, banks, Zionist conspiracy". Much more polically correct than the alternative. After a few decades of being used as a curse word, many people got convinced without really knowing what it meant.
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    **** zionism

    Its not brave for admitting hes a zionist. i see no positive thing you can say about zionism other than the fact it may be good for the jews. But then again it does cause tremendous amounts of hate for jewish people at the same time.

    The wars in iraq, afghanistan and potential world war in iran is most probably a product of zionism.

    Jews have been kicked out of 112 countries. this is not an opinion but a fact. You can call me "anti-semetic" to downplay my argument. But why is that? Is there any possible reason for that?

    The talmud contains sections of very racist statements such as saying things like all gentiles (non jews) can be treated like cattle and it is acceptable to kill them.

    A book from the 1900s called the elders of the protocols of zion. Details plans for jews to infiltrate and overthrow governments by securing high up positions in banks, the media etc.

    Does any one else not find it slightly disturbing that the rulers of our country, most rich and powerful people, hollywood, the banks, and most western media is actually pretty much jewish. That thought scares me.
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    Let's not forget the only reason Jewish people are so important in business/finance is because hundreds of years ago Jews were forbidden to hold any job other than merchants... This is also where the stereotype of money-loving and thievery comes from.

    The irony is that a lot of the media (cough cough FOX) who believe that Jews are evil, are heavily Christian... A religion born out of Judaism

    And yes a lot of influential figures in many industries are Jewish... But a lot are also Christian. Judaism isn't a minority faith so it stands to reason that many successful figures will be Jewish.

    Let's be honest there are many Christian groups who want to create a new world in their image
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    No you misheard - he said 'scientist'...
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    (Original post by Axes)
    Because many people who wanted to delegitemise Israel could not use the term "Jews" after world war two. So they chose to focus on Jewish nationalism instead. Zionist doesnt sound like Jew, so the choice was simple and the whole movement was demonized. "Zionists controll the media, banks, Zionist conspiracy". Much more polically correct than the alternative. After a few decades of being used as a curse word, many people got convinced without really knowing what it meant.
    So condemning Zionism is like being Anti-Semitic? Thanks for explaining it to me anyway
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    (Original post by Summergirl.x)
    So condemning Zionism is like being Anti-Semitic? Thanks for explaining it to me anyway
    Not really. "Anti-Semitism" is a label used to describe people as racist who dislike racist idealogies such as zionism. If someone dislikes zionist policies. Immediately they are labelled as "anti-semite" and "racist nazi" however you would be suprised the number of jewish people who actually behave and act like racist nazis.
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    (Original post by Sonny_J_D)
    Let's not forget the only reason Jewish people are so important in business/finance is because hundreds of years ago Jews were forbidden to hold any job other than merchants... This is also where the stereotype of money-loving and thievery comes from.

    The irony is that a lot of the media (cough cough FOX) who believe that Jews are evil, are heavily Christian... A religion born out of Judaism

    And yes a lot of influential figures in many industries are Jewish... But a lot are also Christian. Judaism isn't a minority faith so it stands to reason that many successful figures will be Jewish.

    Let's be honest there are many Christian groups who want to create a new world in their image
    No its probably because jews only employ other jews and are very discrimanatory into how they act. The american section for peace in the middle east is "israeli only" with posters of israel on the wall and israel today newspapers allowed. How is this fair.

    There may be christians who dislike jews for religious reasons as well as muslims who hate jews for religious reasons however many people just disagree with zionist policies. If your jewish your are inheritly a natural zionist most of the time.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    Not really. "Anti-Semitism" is a label used to describe people as racist who dislike racist idealogies such as zionism. If someone dislikes zionist policies. Immediately they are labelled as "anti-semite" and "racist nazi" however you would be suprised the number of jewish people who actually behave and act like racist nazis.
    I don't understand..? :/
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    (Original post by Summergirl.x)
    So condemning Zionism is like being Anti-Semitic? Thanks for explaining it to me anyway

    Condemning the essence of Jewish self determination is, without a doubt, though many people condemn it without knowing what it is, so are probably not the above.
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    (Original post by Summergirl.x)
    I don't understand..? :/
    Im not saying things such as racism dont exist. But when you discuss freeing palestine on tv. You may labelled as an "anti-semite" a sneaky tactic used to make your argument look weak because you now look like a racist.
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    (Original post by Axes)
    Condemning the essence of Jewish self determination is, without a doubt, though many people condemn it without knowing what it is, so are probably not the above.
    Okay I get it. Tahh.


    (Original post by sinbad23)
    Im not saying things such as racism dont exist. But when you discuss freeing palestine on tv. You may labelled as an "anti-semite" a sneaky tactic used to make your argument look weak because you now look like a racist.
    I don't understand this sentence?


    And going back to the OP, surely loads of US politicians are openly 'Zionist'? After all, AIPAC is one of the most powerful pressure groups there are.
    Or am I referring to pro-Israel? Is there a difference?
    (I'm really interested in Middle Eastern affairs, I've just never been taught it...)
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    (Original post by Summergirl.x)
    Okay I get it. Tahh.



    I don't understand this sentence?


    And going back to the OP, surely loads of US politicians are openly 'Zionist'? After all, AIPAC is one of the most powerful pressure groups there are.
    Or am I referring to pro-Israel? Is there a difference?
    (I'm really interested in Middle Eastern affairs, I've just never been taught it...)
    Its like using the word freedom fighter verus using the word terrorist. One can say something like jewish self determination or say something like how they treat palestinians and encourage americans to go to war for israels sake. It just depends whos talking.

    You can call someone who speaks out against zionist polices as a racist anti semite or someone who think zionism is truly evil because it is nationalistic and racist and whatever.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    Its like using the word freedom fighter verus using the word terrorist. One can say something like jewish self determination or say something like how they treat palestinians and encourage americans to go to war for israels sake. It just depends whos talking.

    You can call someone who speaks out against zionist polices as a racist anti semite or someone who think zionism is truly evil because it is nationalistic and racist and whatever.
    Oooo I get this now We were doing stuff like this in history the other day.. tahh

    Zionism can be considered racist?
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    (Original post by Summergirl.x)
    Oooo I get this now We were doing stuff like this in history the other day.. tahh

    Zionism can be considered racist?
    google or youtube it for yourself you will find tons and tons of hits. Because the internet is not owned by independent people whereas the media is biased and always in favour of jewish people because most people who own it are jewish or have to say good things about the government.

    Zionist thinking is like Jews are better than non jews. Or killing palestinians because their not "gods chosen people" or the fact that many jews believe gentiles (non jews) are like cattle.

    They have a site on the internet called jewish internet defence force. It takes down sites which are pro muslim/anti-zionist. The JDL are considered a terrorist organisation by many and have many murders to their name 2nd in the US. However obviously its only muslims who can be terrorists.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    **** zionism

    Its not brave for admitting hes a zionist. i see no positive thing you can say about zionism other than the fact it may be good for the jews. But then again it does cause tremendous amounts of hate for jewish people at the same time.

    The Jewish religion allso causes/caused hate, so does Palestinian nationalism, and practically every religion/nationalism has created some sort of hate in the past. It does not mean they are nesseceraly wrong.


    The wars in iraq, afghanistan and potential world war in iran is most probably a product of zionism.



    Jews have been kicked out of 112 countries. this is not an opinion but a fact. You can call me "anti-semetic" to downplay my argument. But why is that? Is there any possible reason for that?

    The talmud contains sections of very racist statements such as saying things like all gentiles (non jews) can be treated like cattle and it is acceptable to kill them.

    A book from the 1900s called the elders of the protocols of zion. Details plans for jews to infiltrate and overthrow governments by securing high up positions in banks, the media etc.

    Wow.
    Does any one else not find it slightly disturbing that the rulers of our country, most rich and powerful people, hollywood, the banks, and most western media is actually pretty much jewish. That thought scares me.[/QUOTE]
 
 
 
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