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    I have just been offered a position at one of the Big Four. I declared I have a criminal conviction on the initial application but have never been asked what it is..

    When I was 16 I was convicted for Burglarly with Intent to Cause Criminal Damage and 2 counts of Criminal Damage. This is now spent.

    Also, I was convicted of GBH at 20 after a fight at University. This is unspent as it is only 3 years old.

    My contract says I have to take a 'fit and proper' test when I join. I'm not sure whether this is judged by the firm, the FSA or ICAEW?? Judging by 'the case of John' above, im hopefully I could squeeze through seeing as he did a GBH and the other convictions I have are 7 years old and don't involve fraud / theft.

    Just wondered what anyone thought of this and whether I'm likely to be accepted?
    Also, are the accountancy firms allowed to assess your spent convictions, or is this exemption just for the ICAEW?

    Thanks in advance, any info would be very much appreciate.
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    Yeah you'll be fine, they are talking about the ICAEW.

    Get the PNC file and court records - you can then see what exactly has been recorded. Then use artistic license to put it in the best light possible and get your story straight.

    Obviously saying you got done for GBH for rugby tackling a suicide bomber as he was about to blow up a school will probably be stretching things to far.

    Accountancy like some other professions have exemptions under the rehabilitation of offenders act 1974 - so they are allowed to assess spent convictions and take these into account when offering jobs

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabil...nders_Act_1974

    I doubt that the big 4 would take someone who got fined £10k for violence recently - as that suggests it was incredibly serious and he has issues, that bloke was probably at a smaller firm, the point is the ICAEW did allow him to join.
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    Defoe87 -

    Interesting to find someone in a similar position to me, a fight at University winds you up with a GBH conviction.

    Do you mind telling me which one of the big 4 you have an offer from, or could you PM it?

    Cheers
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    Thanks Nav - 'reassuring criminal accountants of their future' should go down in your hobbies!

    So would the company not see the fit and proper questionnaire, only ICAEW? As yet, the firm don't know what the convictions entail, only that I have some.

    I contacted the ICAEW today and they are going to try and give me some more guidance as to whether I'll be accepted. Hopefully I 'll find out for sure soon as my job depends on me getting in, yet I'm not going to take the Fit and Proper tests until I begin work in September So this kind of leaves me in a dilemma.


    Bluepencil - I think you would be surprised at how many graduates have records and the company is Deloitte.
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    Hi Defoe87 - very best of luck to you!

    I had a job offer from Capgemini to become a management consultant, meant to have started in March just gone.
    They withdrew their offer when they thought I wouldn't get government security clearance.

    Likewise I had an offer from the Pentland Group to be the assistant to their CFO and again withdrew their offer.

    I am currently sitting unemployed and wondering if to even bother applying to any big corporates anymore?

    I have 2 convictions

    1 for criminal damage and another for GBH (similar to you, a one off, out of character fight at University)

    All the best
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    Far worse than any other punishment the court gave you I imagine.

    I'm suprised management consultany firms even check, or did you come forward with it? Maybe you should consider niche consultancies or even a different career and come back to consulting when the convictions are spent.

    What did you study at uni, something business-related I imagine? I'm doing the International Management MSc at King's now and loads of people I know are going for niche consultancies. Or maybe you could do a master's to put a bit of time between applying and the conviction?

    The ICAEW have told me they cannot investigate my offences UNTIL I begin work at Deloitte, which leaves me and the firm very uncertain. I'm even considering asking to have my offer changed to a different service line so I do a different qualification to the ACA. As I fear the firm may see me not gaining entry to the ICAEW as too much of a risk and just withdraw the offer altogether

    If that happens, we should meet up and sign on the dole together lol
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    Yeah it was quite annoying to be honest, considering I thought I had finally made all my hard academia pay off.

    Management consultancies check, because Capgemini do a lot of public sector work - you need government clearance. With my contract, I got a seperate form for disclosing convictions and my background etc

    Yeah I did Management BSc, graduated in 2009 but my cases dragged out for absolutely ages. Soon as they concluded in October 2010, I got on the applications and managed to get an offer from Capgemini.

    Like with your court cases, I'm sure you know the worst thing you could do is worry. The solice you can take is that you are capable. Hopefully bank on the fact Deloitte will see you as a commodity, and if they can make money off your back, they will.

    Keep your chin up mate, cos you are defo good enough! Don't let it get you down!
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    ha ha, point taken - last post on TSR from me as this is too addictive!!

    Defoe - ICAEW team are standard admin workers who will not give you a commital statement, they have to follow process so can only send it to the decision maker to sign off when you apply for membership...

    So hows about you join ICAEW now as an independent student - then they'll process and admit you. That way if you run into a similar HR admin drone at Deloitte who is likely to follow process to the letter, and recruitment policy is not to waste time on recruits who may not be admitted - you can say you were concerned about your spent convictions and have spoken to ICAEW and registered.


    Thats obviously what happened with BluePencil - all was going fine until some drone in HR said "computer says no" as if a bit of graf aged 16 and handbags at dawn in weatherpoons is going to preclude him from being cleared to do some photocopying in the NHS!

    I reckon if you have unspent convictions - get CRB cleared by the local hospital/council or ideally some swish government department - the police/whitehall etc - the clients the firm works for.

    That way you can send in the copy of the CRBs you get in the post with those bodies name on with your declaration proving its not an issue for them.

    At the trainee level so many people apply - they have drones in HR weeding people out on set criteria and don't want to waste time on people who may cause a problem for work clearance - so be prepared on how to deal with them, and prove its not an issue and you'll be CRB cleared for their clients. I'm surprised if that's the firm policy for CapGemini why not just have the declaration on the application to weed people out before interview?

    Nothing is going to help you if you've touched kids or done a bank job - but those kind of crimes are never spent.

    Good luck all, if all else fails join the police - plenty of them have records!
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    Dear All,

    I have spoken to the admin team at ICAEW and they have no clue. the person I spoke could not differentiate between a conviction and caution. I have spoken at great lengths and with great research, I think for those with cautions, is choose to do ACCA since there is no Fit and Proper to fill in a la ICAEW so does not ask about guilty pleads.

    My experience, unfortunately after so much graft, I got a caution for fraud by abuse of position (crappy part time retail job). Anyway, i disclosed this to my firm who I did my internship with and lost my offer as a graduate fund manager cos of it. I have to be selective about which roles I apply for but wonder if anyone can shed some light. I currently work as a credit risk analyst for a bank but hoping to join a Big 4 in Jan as trainee (basically, i ahve been guaranteed a job). Could someone tell me if the Big 4 do CRB check and if so wether they are Basic Disclosure Scotland or Standard CRB checks.

    Word of advice of going for various roles - legally you are only required to disclose what is legitimately plausible. So if you apply for a job in an industry which is not subject to a standard or enhanced crb check (not exempt from the ROA 1974), dont go voluntarily disclosing what you need - you cannot be discriminated for that.

    Thanks
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    Btw, you know if your name was on a crime report ....but you haven't been officially cautioned, signed any form or received any kind of formal warning in writing - just verbal, does this count as anything dodgy with respect to the CRB ?
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    (Original post by Mos Def)
    Btw, you know if your name was on a crime report ....but you haven't been officially cautioned, signed any form or received any kind of formal warning in writing - just verbal, does this count as anything dodgy with respect to the CRB ?
    Unfortuntaely yes... If you are required to undergo an enhanced CRB check there is room for the Police to make comments. These could be arrests not leading to convictions (NFA etc) or just suspicions from the police. They could add anything they think is relevant for the purpose of the CRB check
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    (Original post by AnneHorringer)
    Unfortuntaely yes... If you are required to undergo an enhanced CRB check there is room for the Police to make comments. These could be arrests not leading to convictions (NFA etc) or just suspicions from the police. They could add anything they think is relevant for the purpose of the CRB check
    What if I was already CRB checked?
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    To give you guys a heads up, they take criminal convictions seriously. Any conviction other than summary will result in a meeting with the relevant professional body to see if you should be allowed to stay a member/student. I'd imagine unless it's financial or serious harm/conviction then they'll be okay with it though.
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    (Original post by Kemik)
    To give you guys a heads up, they take criminal convictions seriously. Any conviction other than summary will result in a meeting with the relevant professional body to see if you should be allowed to stay a member/student. I'd imagine unless it's financial or serious harm/conviction then they'll be okay with it though.
    By convictions you mean actually having pressed charges against etc? A verbal police warning wont count right?
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    Basically any conviction is bad!

    Had 3 job offers and all 3 have fallen through due to my convictions!
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    hello guys,

    can anyone please help me, Im becoming increasing worried. I have received an offer from a big 4 firm and am worried about a Reprimand i may have got around 6 years ago when i was 15. I was basically caught smoking cannabis with friends. We were all just verbally spoken to by the officer, never went station or court and had the cannabis confiscated. I never received any written confirmation of this event also which makes me think whether I even got a Reprimand.

    Im worried about checks that the ICAEW may carry out, not so much the company as they stated they only conduct Basic disclosure checks which bring up only unspent convictions. Will this reprimand show up and will the ICAEW be strict upon it?, surely they will understand it was a stupid childhood isolated incident, and its no fraud or theft.

    any help is appreciated. thanks.
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    I am in a similar position as I have a (spent) conditional discharge for common assault. For anything involving accountancy/acturarial or many other professional services, the ROA does not apply and they can see your entire record through standard disclosure (i.e. offences never become spent). Presumably, this was implemented to ensure that all members had no serious fraud/theft charges on record, but it seems that the various bodies and employers are determined to take into account other irrelevant offences that have no bearing of the employee's ability to do the job.

    Now, the interesting bit is how they word the question: if they ask if you have had any criminal CONVICTIONS only, then if you have a caution/reprimand/warning/etc. then you can legally answer no. Same if you have been bound over / received an absolute or conditional discharge.

    The part about the absolute / conditional discharge was recently challenged in court. A lady applied for a job with the Met Police having a previous conditional discharge on file. Since the ROA does not apply for police jobs, the conditional discharge showed up on file and she was sacked and prosecuted for not disclosing it. However, it was challenged in court that since the question asked for previous CONVICTIONS, she had answered the question truthfully.

    See R v Patel [2006] EWCA Crim 2689
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    (Original post by wisdomgoals)
    hello guys,

    can anyone please help me, Im becoming increasing worried. I have received an offer from a big 4 firm and am worried about a Reprimand i may have got around 6 years ago when i was 15. I was basically caught smoking cannabis with friends. We were all just verbally spoken to by the officer, never went station or court and had the cannabis confiscated. I never received any written confirmation of this event also which makes me think whether I even got a Reprimand.

    Im worried about checks that the ICAEW may carry out, not so much the company as they stated they only conduct Basic disclosure checks which bring up only unspent convictions. Will this reprimand show up and will the ICAEW be strict upon it?, surely they will understand it was a stupid childhood isolated incident, and its no fraud or theft.

    any help is appreciated. thanks.
    This sounds like a slap on the wrist more than anything. Anything below a caution isn't recorded. What you are describing is not a caution for the following reasons:

    1 - Cautions have to be formally performed by an officer in a station.
    2 - If you were 15, your parents have to be present at the caution
    3 - Sounds like this would have been at the time that cannabis was decriminalised. The police wouldn't have issued a caution to a 15 year old with a personal amount back then

    In conclusion, it shouldn't show up. If it does I really doubt that this is the sort of thing they are worried about. You do not have a criminal record based on this and as such you would pass all of the "fit and proper" disclosures
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    (Original post by lordash)
    I am in a similar position as I have a (spent) conditional discharge for common assault. For anything involving accountancy/acturarial or many other professional services, the ROA does not apply and they can see your entire record through standard disclosure (i.e. offences never become spent). Presumably, this was implemented to ensure that all members had no serious fraud/theft charges on record, but it seems that the various bodies and employers are determined to take into account other irrelevant offences that have no bearing of the employee's ability to do the job.

    Now, the interesting bit is how they word the question: if they ask if you have had any criminal CONVICTIONS only, then if you have a caution/reprimand/warning/etc. then you can legally answer no. Same if you have been bound over / received an absolute or conditional discharge.

    The part about the absolute / conditional discharge was recently challenged in court. A lady applied for a job with the Met Police having a previous conditional discharge on file. Since the ROA does not apply for police jobs, the conditional discharge showed up on file and she was sacked and prosecuted for not disclosing it. However, it was challenged in court that since the question asked for previous CONVICTIONS, she had answered the question truthfully.

    See R v Patel [2006] EWCA Crim 2689
    They aren't going to press charges if you lie, they will just not let you in...
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    (Original post by itsmehere)
    They aren't going to press charges if you lie, they will just not let you in...
    It was to do with the met so that maybe why they prosecuted, but your right no accountancy firm would bother..... maybe they would come after you for training fees if something came to light part way through a training contract?
 
 
 
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