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    (Original post by Lu-x)
    So did you put in your PS that you've applied before?
    Yup, and mentioned it at all my interviewers thus far. I don't understand your point?


    (Original post by Arenas123)
    I understand what you mean. I just don't think his lie was bad which according to my dad was reflected in the way his tutor responded. He found it hilarious he'd brought two people with him. People on here have been talking about doctors who have deceived many many times and comparing them to him. Talking about him being struck of for this. Also people saying he was very lucky. From the sound of things the tutor didn't even care meaning he didn't need any luck.

    I'm just trying to make sure that people on TSR don't scare monger for future people that read this thread. From the way people were talking before I found out what happened I was expecting him to have been kicked out.
    Nah I'm not comparing him to anybody, just saying what I know about UCAS policies etc., I would expect that in your friends case it is the exception rather than the norm. I think it went in his favour because it isn't a UK medical school. I have a feeling if he had dropped out of a med school in the UK, failed to declare it, and then tried to reapply etc. he would have had some problems.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Do you think they are equal acts of deceit though. You think they're just as bad as each other ?

    It's not even the UCAS issue I was deffensive about. It was saying that lying and lying by omission were the same thing. Yes ticking the box is the same as saying the words I agree however they are by no means helpful especially when the UCAS statement asks for relevant information. You see it's pretty subjective what is relevant to your university application. Then there is actively lying. Say somebody saying they went to Cambridge when they went to Sussex. If you did that UCAS and your university could kick you out. In my friends situation his UCAS form was all true even if there wasn't enough ''relevant'' information. This paragraph isn't my opinion. It's that of the lawyer that said they would go to court for this guy if he needed it.

    I will be doing Law next year btw not that it's relevant.
    Well then your 'lawyer' friend is probably a back street solicitor who's LPC cost £59 online.
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    (Original post by Beska)
    Yup, and mentioned it at all my interviewers thus far. I don't understand your point?




    Nah I'm not comparing him to anybody, just saying what I know about UCAS policies etc., I would expect that in your friends case it is the exception rather than the norm. I think it went in his favour because it isn't a UK medical school. I have a feeling if he had dropped out of a med school in the UK, failed to declare it, and then tried to reapply etc. he would have had some problems.

    I agree. If it was a UK medicine I would be annoyed because he's taken someone elses place and wasted a year of government aka tax payers money.
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    (Original post by Altrozero)
    Well then your 'lawyer' friend is probably a back street solicitor who's LPC cost £59 online.
    He got it for 49. Think he had a coupon of some form.

    I'm really not gonna go into the whole my lawyer went to this university etc.

    He obviously didn't take the case based on just what you quoted. There was more, and based on the fact it wasn't even an issue he was probably right to say he'd take it.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Completely disagree and I'm not just talking about the UCAS thing anymore.
    You may completely disagree, but the GMC doesn't, and it's them that doctors have to answer to, not you. Most medical schools refuse to accept people who have previously studied medicine at another institution, it doesn't show commitment. And since most people know this, maybe your friend did too, hence why he chose not to disclose it. At the end of the day, he's being slightly dishonest by just saying he was "in India" for his gap year, and by just saying that it does look like he was trying to hide what he was doing there - there's no excuse for not saying that you were at medical school.

    And at the end of the day, honesty is one of the most important qualities in a doctor. He has not displayed this (infact the the complete opposite) so I really have no sympathy.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    I agree. If it was a UK medicine I would be annoyed because he's taken someone elses place and wasted a year of government aka tax payers money.
    Best of luck anyway!
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Do you think they are equal acts of deceit though. You think they're just as bad as each other ?
    Yes I do. A lie is a lie. The outcome is the same.
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    Sodium Pentathol him, kill him ceremoniously, cut him up and dump his body parts in the Gulf Stream, Dexter style.
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    (Original post by xXxBaby-BooxXx)
    You may completely disagree, but the GMC doesn't, and it's them that doctors have to answer to, not you. Most medical schools refuse to accept people who have previously studied medicine at another institution, it doesn't show commitment. And since most people know this, maybe your friend did too, hence why he chose not to disclose it. At the end of the day, he's being slightly dishonest by just saying he was "in India" for his gap year, and by just saying that it does look like he was trying to hide what he was doing there - there's no excuse for not saying that you were at medical school.

    And at the end of the day, honesty is one of the most important qualities in a doctor. He has not displayed this (infact the the complete opposite) so I really have no sympathy.
    No sympathy for what Nothing's happened to him to be sympathetic about ? Apart from maybe being scared for a few days because he was being blackmailed
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    No sympathy for what Nothing's happened to him to be sympathetic about ? Apart from maybe being scared for a few days because he was being blackmailed
    Well I posted before I read the second page of the thread. But either way, I've no sympathy for the situation that he found himself in as he brought it on himself imo.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Look at my posting history. I'm on a gap year.

    I don't know this guy very well but when I was applying for pharmacy his parents did so much to help me. I'm just glad my parents could turn it around and help him.
    I doubt many people go through someone's entire posting history before commenting on a thread... :rolleyes:
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    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    This is a job for superman!
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Sorry I think you're blowing it out of proportion ... a lot. I know what he did was wrong but you're comparing it to someone that was a compulsive liar and who actively deceived medical school. Then there's the fact that both his med schools were government funded. So 5 years of St George's could of been for someone else to get a full medical education.

    Also he lied about his training being deemed below acceptable. That's endangering patient lives.

    I know people that have lied about volunteering on there UCAS form. I know 3 or 4 people who have started an undergraduate degree and applied to medicine at the same time and not said about it. All those worse than what this guy did. My dads been a doctor for 29 years, my uncle for 36 years. I doubt they would let him carry on with medicine if he was just going to be struck of the register.

    I don't really know about this but from 10 adults and 23 kids in my extended family, Only me and one other person are not in the medical field. They have all weighed in on this so I think they know what they're doing.

    You should be careful when you use this guy as an example. He was a compulsive liar. Lying about 5 years you spent at medical school and lying about not being deemed fit to practice is extreme. I've never lied on a UCAS form but I never applied for anything as competitive as medicine.
    Well, here are the quotes from that GMC hearing. You may not think it is a big lie but not according to the GMC:

    "In your evidence to this Panel, you admitted that your actions were totally unacceptable in:

    omitting to mention on your 1999 UCAS application form to study medicine in Southampton, that your previous medical student career at St George’s Hospital had been terminated in 1997,

    You have admitted that, by lying on your UCAS application form, you had given yourself an unfair advantage and you had deprived another student of a place at medical school.


    At this hearing you have admitted that the UCAS form was inaccurate and incomplete, and that you omitted material information; and also that your conduct in filling out the form and signing the declaration was misleading and dishonest

    “Dishonesty, even where it does not result in direct harm to patients but is for example related to the doctor’s private life, is particularly serious because it undermines the trust the public place in the profession. Examples of dishonesty in professional practice could include defrauding an employer, improperly amending patient records or submitting or providing false references, inaccurate or misleading information on a CV and failing to take reasonable steps to ensure that statements made in formal documents are accurate.”


    The Panel has noted the GMC’s guidance “Good Medical Practice” (GMP) (2001). That states that doctors must be “honest and trustworthy”. In paragraph 51 it further states: “You must not write or sign documents which are false or misleading because they omit relevant information”. Your dishonesty was compounded by your willingness to certify that the information provided on your UCAS application form was correct and accurate when you knew that was not the case.
    "
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    (Original post by xXxBaby-BooxXx)
    You may completely disagree, but the GMC doesn't, and it's them that doctors have to answer to, not you. Most medical schools refuse to accept people who have previously studied medicine at another institution, it doesn't show commitment. And since most people know this, maybe your friend did too, hence why he chose not to disclose it. At the end of the day, he's being slightly dishonest by just saying he was "in India" for his gap year, and by just saying that it does look like he was trying to hide what he was doing there - there's no excuse for not saying that you were at medical school.

    And at the end of the day, honesty is one of the most important qualities in a doctor. He has not displayed this (infact the the complete opposite) so I really have no sympathy.
    I don't think he was being slightly dishonest. When I enrolled on my medical degree 3 months ago, we all had to sign the forms saying that we were not previously enrolled at university and i think it's the same at the other UK med schools. The guy had every oppourtunity to declare it really. When you do stuff like this you never know how it will come back to haunt you when applying for posts...
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    (Original post by sd91)
    I don't think he was being slightly dishonest. When I enrolled on my medical degree 3 months ago, we all had to sign the forms saying that we were not previously enrolled at university and i think it's the same at the other UK med schools. The guy had every oppourtunity to declare it really. When you do stuff like this you never know how it will come back to haunt you when applying for posts...
    Well, I was being polite :p: I completely agree with you
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Everyone going on about lying by omission being the same as lying is wrong. My uncle rang a lawyer before him and my dad escorted this boy to the university to talk to his tutor.
    I like the idea that you can be right or wrong on such an issue of morality. I also like the idea that you can find the right answer to moral questions by ringing a lawyer.
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    (Original post by sd91)
    I don't think he was being slightly dishonest. When I enrolled on my medical degree 3 months ago, we all had to sign the forms saying that we were not previously enrolled at university and i think it's the same at the other UK med schools. The guy had every oppourtunity to declare it really. When you do stuff like this you never know how it will come back to haunt you when applying for posts...
    Just out of interest what should he of done ? He was an 18 year old that didn't think he was going to get in to medical school so he ended up in India. You're telling me because of the mistake he made when he was 18 he should never be allowed to follow his dream. The rule you are talking about applies to UK medical schools and the only reason for that is the fact the government pays for it.

    Anyone on this thread got a valid reason why the fact my friend went to medical school before is relevant ? He wasted a year of his life. His parents wasted money. How does it affect KCL exactly ? How is it in any way relevant ?

    Which university do you go to ? Nobody I know has heard of this form you're talking about.

    The fact that his university didn't care tells me all I need to know.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Look at my posting history. I'm on a gap year.

    I don't know this guy very well but when I was applying for pharmacy his parents did so much to help me. I'm just glad my parents could turn it around and help him.
    Hmm thanks for the neg rep for nothing...
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    The most important thing is that the truth has come out, has been shared with the authorities concerned and hopefully the person concerned has reflected on his/her behaviour and will be open and honest in future.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Just out of interest what should he of done ? He was an 18 year old that didn't think he was going to get in to medical school so he ended up in India. You're telling me because of the mistake he made when he was 18 he should never be allowed to follow his dream. The rule you are talking about applies to UK medical schools and the only reason for that is the fact the government pays for it.

    Anyone on this thread got a valid reason why the fact my friend went to medical school before is relevant ? He wasted a year of his life. His parents wasted money. How does it affect KCL exactly ? How is it in any way relevant ?

    Which university do you go to ? Nobody I know has heard of this form you're talking about.

    The fact that his university didn't care tells me all I need to know.
    He should have taken a gap year if he wanted to reapply. There are people on this forum who have taken 2 gap years and are applying for the 3rd time.

    When I enrolled on my degree my uni asked everyone to sign some sheets - CRB, fitness to practice declaration and on one of them it asked whether we had previously attended HE or another medical course.

    No it does not. The issue, which was highlighted by those GMC quotes, is the fact that he lied and was dishonest. It is about the principle of lying, especially in one of the healthcare professions which deals with the public - i'm not sure that you are ever going to understand the point i am making so i'm going to leave it at this
 
 
 
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