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Lib Dem Ministers/Tory Backbenchers Voting Against or Abstaining Watch

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    (Original post by rylit91)
    Very sophisticated argument.
    Yet you insulted me in practically every post you made. The fact is what I wrote is correct and if you don't want to accept fact frankly I don't care.
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    Yeah I'm with Teaddict on this one. Government ministers decide policy - they can't then vote against or abstain on their own policy! (As Vince 'Pendulum' Cable seemed to be saying he would do earlier this week!)
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    (Original post by The Next Left)
    Yeah I'm with Teaddict on this one. Government ministers decide policy - they can't then vote against or abstain on their own policy! (As Vince 'Pendulum' Cable seemed to be saying he would do earlier this week!)
    Exactly. It would particularly ridiculous for Vince given that it's his department!
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    Its disappointing that all the Lib dem ministers will be voting for this.
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    Yes - as the poster says above - Newsnight has confirmed tonight that, following a meeting of the Parliamentary Liberal Democrats, none of the 18 Liberal Democrat ministers will be voting against or abstaining from Thursday's vote. The report, including an interview with Nick Clegg after the meeting, suggested that the Lib Dem high command sees the proposals as 'Browne Plus' and the best course of action in difficult times.

    It remains to be seen however, how the rest of the Liberal Democrats will vote on the issue - they are free to abstain as laid down in the Coalition agreement - and whether other Conservative backbenchers will join David Davis in rejecting the Party line on this.
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    (Original post by The Next Left)
    Yeah I'm with Teaddict on this one. Government ministers decide policy - they can't then vote against or abstain on their own policy! (As Vince 'Pendulum' Cable seemed to be saying he would do earlier this week!)
    It is absolutely crazy that the business secretary would even contemplate voting against his own policy. I think this whole saga has shown the Liberal Democrats in very negative light in my view.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    It is absolutely crazy that the business secretary would even contemplate voting against his own policy. I think this whole saga has shown the Liberal Democrats in very negative light in my view.
    I don't think the dithering has helped the Lib Dems either. I mean, by all means there needed to be a meeting of the Parliamentary Party but various ministers, including Vince himself, have been hinting at voting against/abstaining for the last week or so - telling a different tale to every journalist they came across. That has only intensified the saga and increased the negativity surrounding the Lib Dems.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    If ministers do not like government policy they should resign. A minister either votes for the government or resigns, the idea that they can abstain is ridiculous and against the constitution of this country.


    Dont be so ****ing stupid. If that was the case, then there wouldnt be any point giving the ministers a vote on government policy anyway. Its not a dictatorship.
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    (Original post by Greenlaner)


    Dont be so ****ing stupid. If that was the case, then there wouldnt be any point giving the ministers a vote on government policy anyway. Its not a dictatorship.
    Why do people find it so hard to understand the notion of collective responsibility?
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    (Original post by Greenlaner)


    Dont be so ****ing stupid. If that was the case, then there wouldnt be any point giving the ministers a vote on government policy anyway. Its not a dictatorship.
    You're calling me ****ing stupid, yet it is you who fails to understand the British constitution.
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    (Original post by rylit91)
    You're the idiot for completely disregarding what I said, and instead of countering it with a viable response, answered with an ill-thought, knee-jerk reaction that means nothing.

    Who has the overall say in the Cabinet? PM. Cabinet is Govt. Ministers must agree with Govt (according to you)

    What is the point of electing Ministers if this is the way to go?
    Who has overall say in cabinet? A very complex question indeed and one which varies from cabinet to cabinet depending on the powers and influence of various players. The offical, consitutional version would be that no one has the overall say and the cabinets decisions are decided by debate and majority voting. After that vote all members are tied by collective responability to the majority decision after the debate and vote. If they cannot accept the ccabinets decision and wish to sacrafice their career then they stand down.

    In reality, of course, many votes are decided after the cabinet (which meets rarley and breifly) votes on a proposal sans debate after it is presented by the relevent minister after consultation with the PM and the relavent cabinet committee. It is very rare that there is a real fight at the cabinet table itself.

    And you don't elect ministers. You elect MP's and her majesty decides who is in a position to get a majority on the commons. He then recommends ministers to her majesty who appoints them to her government. Theres no election involved at all.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    You're calling me ****ing stupid, yet it is you who fails to understand the British constitution.
    I hesitate to descend into another nugatory and futile debate with you, but this country doesn't have a constitution, surely?
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    (Original post by rylit91)
    I hesitate to descend into another nugatory and futile debate with you, but this country doesn't have a constitution, surely?
    Of course we have a constitution. Just because its not all written down on a big bit of paper under the heading "Constitution" doesnt mean we dont have one.
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    (Original post by rylit91)
    I hesitate to descend into another nugatory and futile debate with you, but this country doesn't have a constitution, surely?
    :facepalm2:

    Of course we have a bloody constitution. We are, however, in the very rare situation of having an uncodified constitution. If I recall correctly only three other countries have uncodified constitutions.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    :facepalm2:

    Of course we have a bloody constitution. We are, however, in the very rare situation of having an uncodified constitution. If I recall correctly only three other countries have uncodified constitutions.
    I know we have an 'unwritten' constitution, but not one in the sense that most others have. Our constitution began forming from things like Magna Carta, the Interegnum and such. I was asking/prposing that we don't have a constitution as most countries would recognise one. No need to jump on my back!
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    (Original post by rylit91)
    I know we have an 'unwritten' constitution, but not one in the sense that most others have. Our constitution began forming from things like Magna Carta, the Interegnum and such. I was asking/prposing that we don't have a constitution as most countries would recognise one. No need to jump on my back!
    Are you trying to imply that my use of the term uncodified is incorrect and that I should be using the term unwritten? Our constitution is quite written actually... However, it isn't written in a single document and thus isn't codified.

    We have a constitution, its just different to how many countries have there's. I am not jumping on your back, I am merely correcting your errors.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    the idea that they can abstain is ridiculous and against the constitution of this country.
    Er...it's in the coalition agreement signed by both parties, so quite frankly. No.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Er...it's in the coalition agreement signed by both parties, so quite frankly. No.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet...responsibility

    "Cabinet collective responsibility is constitutional convention in governments using the Westminster System that members of the Cabinet must publicly support all governmental decisions made in Cabinet, even if they do not privately agree with them. This support includes voting for the government in the legislature. In the United Kingdom, the doctrine applies to all members of the government, from members of the cabinet down to Parliamentary Private Secretaries."

    Two parties signing an agreement doesn't change the British constitution.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Er...it's in the coalition agreement signed by both parties, so quite frankly. No.
    The coalition agreement is not above our constitution.
    You negged me because you're a moron? Ill return the favour don't worry.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    The coalition agreement is not above our constitution.
    You negged me because you're a moron? Ill return the favour don't worry.
    Lol so much butthurt over a neg
 
 
 
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