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Black people/Santa/Jesus on the front of xmas cards & racial prejudice at xmas Watch

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    (Original post by Some random guy)
    They weren't white stupid. Unless you call arabs white as they had a semite complexion.
    They were Jewish.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    lol! would you be offended of feel awkward if a coloured person gave you one of these?

    also @ people saying Jesus was white northern european, look at Revelations 1:13-16

    "His head and hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;
    1:15 - And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. "

    so his hair was wooly like a black person, not silky like a northern european, and his skin was like brass burned in a furnace, presumably bronzed, brownish and glowing not pale and pasty.
    Not at all, I'd probably ask them where they'd got them from. The Mary ones are beautiful


    about your other point, "His head and hairs [were] white like wool" doesn't white hair suggest that he's blond? It's a bit of a contradictory description, if you ask me.
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    (Original post by BigBadSaint)
    :curious:

    right .... so not in Africa then??

    Christ was an Israelite I think,though I suppose if you believe in the miraculous conception he could appear as any colour under the sun. .....
    No he wasn't Nordic, and portraying him with blue eyes is *probably inaccurate*, but this is quite uncommon and mot do portray him as Levantine, so your assertion here is misleading. Google images is enough to tell you this.
    see my quote from the Bible. he was not white, he was brown with african hair(Revelations) with original familial roots in ethiopia (Genesis)

    Saint Nicholas was born in Anatolia, so was probably Greek/Roman/other, so mostly white.

    So for a start then, the two figures actually were close to white, or certainly Caucasian.
    This isn't the point though: Christ and Father Christmas, are to a large degree cultural figures, and what they actually looked like, or even whether they actually existed, is of very little importance because (British) people like to imagine this figures in a way familiar to them, so probably white.
    so if they are not real people and 'race doesnt matter' then why cant at least SOME or even a COUPLE or FEW images on mainstream cards depict him as ANY non white race?
    They associate Christmas with family, and 92% of people in the country have a predominantly white family.This is a 92% White British country, so companies market their Jesus/Santa stuff towards them, so reinforcing the notion of what they *should* look like.
    i found the study you quoted, which was from 2001. actually, the immigration has massively increased sincve then and although ethnic minorities are a minority, they are still sizable in number actually heading toward 20%. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/ju...nic-minorities

    considering that most white people like to say how they are eg 1/16th indian, had a persian cousin, have anceastry in brazil etc, even more white people should theoretically have non white members of their family, so non whites+ whites with at least one non white relative in their family or extended family should equal at least 30-40%. are ALL of YOU family 100% white with roots in Northern Europe? thought not.

    This isn't racial prejudice, this is you being a prat. In future please try to be at least a little bit informed on a topic before you fling about 'racial prejudice' assertions.

    As to why you were questioned as to your religion, of the 6% or so of the population which are not white or black, two-thirds are S.Asian, so likely Muslim or Hindu. Maybe a little rude on their part but presumably you were not lynched so you are doing ok.
    no i meant the massively inappropriate questions were racial prejudice. if i was white and in church at xmas would peopel ask if i celebrate christmas? if i say im a christian at work, is it really appropraite for people to say 'no, you can tell us, what religion are you really?'

    where are the brown chistians?
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    if race doesnt matter then why is this image uncomfortable? if race doesnt matter then why are there not a diversity of different races represented in xmas cards? maybe people might like to give someone a xmas card with an image they can relate to? it is easy to say 'race doesnt matter' when it is YOUR race that is unanamously represented on EVERY SINGLE mainstream xmas card. if you walk into clintons cards, i can see why you would think race is not an issue - because there is no race other than the white race on cards!!!!

    as for your point 'it has always been that way, why change it', does that mean Barbie should always be blond because it was always that way? does that mean apartheid in South Africa shouldnt have ended? does that mean the president of the states had always been white, so Obama shouldnt have been allowed to become president because having a white president 'had always been the way, why change it?'

    it is easy to ignore issues of race when you are enjoying white privlidge and you cannot see what you have. even though something 'has always been that way' doesnt mean it has to STAY that way for our future generations. sometimes these prejudices NEED to change to advance ethnic diversity. not black rights, not white rights but EQUALITY.


    you have the right to make black xmas card or whatever you want, so do i have the right to chose some other card and feel the black/brown xmas card weird. equality means no one have to accept your idea nor can they say that you are doing something wrong




    (Original post by shinytoy)
    so if they are not real people and 'race doesnt matter' then why cant at least SOME or even a COUPLE or FEW images on mainstream cards depict him as ANY non white race?
    because not making change in the design will not bring down profit but change the design is not guaranteed to increase profit
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    maybe a brown skinned muslim might also like to buy a brown skinned mary and joseph card for his niece?
    I get the idea, but as far as I'm aware most muslims don't use cards with pictures of people on them. Something to do with not drawing pictures of people, which extends to not buying/giving pictures of people.

    Some of the muslim people from my old school gave xmas cards, but they were usually with pictures of xmas trees or xmas puddings and things.
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    In China, Jesus is portrayed as Chinese. In Africa, Jesus is portrayed as African. In white societies, Jesus is portrayed as white. A white Jesus/Santa is just what people are used to here in UK.

    Of course, St Nicholas was Greek, and Jesus was Middle Eastern...
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    This is not even political correctness, this is stupidity/
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    This is not even political correctness, this is stupidity.
    Where's the alternative version of Goldi-locks from black-decent?
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    (Original post by felix06)
    you have the right to make black xmas card or whatever you want, so do i have the right to chose some other card and feel the black/brown xmas card weird. equality means no one have to accept your idea nor can they say that you are doing something wrong
    racial equality means that if i give you a card with a white face or a brown face on it, or if you see a brown newsreader instead of a white one, you would simply see a christmas card or a newsreader, NOT a brownfacednewsreader or brownfacedxmas card.

    after all, race shouldnt matter should it?

    so if i as a brown person choose to give you as my white friend a nice quality xmas card with a brown santa on it, why would you find that weird and not simply appreciate the gesture that i have gievn you a nice xmas card?
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    (Original post by F i s)
    This is not even political correctness, this is stupidity.
    Where's the alternative version of Goldi-locks from black-decent?
    not really, goldi locks is a white people story with golden hair hence the name. but christmas in a universal multi race multi faith festival, in which only the white race is repsresented in cards which is wrong because

    a) Jesus wasnt white (he had wooly hair and burnished bronze skin as per Revelations)

    b)Santa isnt real so could be white or black

    with 10%+ population non white and about 30-40% with non white relatives there should be at least one or two non white xmas cards in mainstream card shops, out of the 100s of white ones.
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    1:09 onwards for a real politically correct christmas:

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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    not really, goldi locks is a white people story with golden hair hence the name. but christmas in a universal multi race multi faith festival, in which only the white race is repsresented in cards which is wrong because

    a) Jesus wasnt white (he had wooly hair and burnished bronze skin as per Revelations)

    b)Santa isnt real so could be white or black

    with 10%+ population non white and about 30-40% with non white relatives there should be at least one or two non white xmas cards in mainstream card shops, out of the 100s of white ones.
    What's a "white people story"... ?

    are there "brown people stories" too?

    do you reckon we should re-do the medieval frescoes and stained glass windows to make them ethnically representative in case people get offended by all those angels?
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    Jesus was arabic

    Was that so hard?
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    not really, goldi locks is a white people story with golden hair hence the name. but christmas in a universal multi race multi faith festival, in which only the white race is repsresented in cards which is wrong because

    a) Jesus wasnt white (he had wooly hair and burnished bronze skin as per Revelations)

    b)Santa isnt real so could be white or black

    with 10%+ population non white and about 30-40% with non white relatives there should be at least one or two non white xmas cards in mainstream card shops, out of the 100s of white ones.
    So Santa has to be black to show it's not a racist character??/
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    In China, Jesus is portrayed as Chinese. In Africa, Jesus is portrayed as African. In white societies, Jesus is portrayed as white. A white Jesus/Santa is just what people are used to here in UK.

    Of course, St Nicholas was Greek, and Jesus was Middle Eastern...
    Jesus is white in China


    (Original post by shinytoy)
    racial equality means that if i give you a card with a white face or a brown face on it, or if you see a brown newsreader instead of a white one, you would simply see a christmas card or a newsreader, NOT a brownfacednewsreader or brownfacedxmas card.

    after all, race shouldnt matter should it?

    so if i as a brown person choose to give you as my white friend a nice quality xmas card with a brown santa on it, why would you find that weird and not simply appreciate the gesture that i have gievn you a nice xmas card?

    1. from as far as i can remember, in the stories, Santa came from northern Europe.It's true that Santa is not real, but he has his back ground setting that make him a native of northern Europe and I don't get what's the point to make a native of northern Europe brown.


    2.I'm Chinese and I will appreciate the card, but still not the brown Santa--never make him Chinese or i won't be able to hold my laugh
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    (Original post by felix06)
    because not making change in the design will not bring down profit but change the design is not guaranteed to increase profit

    i see what you mean, its like when Rimmel brought out a range of makeup for non white skin, but had to close it since it didnt make the money. but now all main superdrugs have a new black range called sleek specifically for blacks.

    im still confused why nowhere sells nude tights for non white skin.

    you know, if any of you white people are looking to make serious money, feel free to cash into these ideas it is a major niche. if you market them right to the correct demographics you would be totally minted. think of brixton or bradford. all those people like me are wondering round high streets looking for brownfaced cards, dolls or tights. you would make millions.
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    (Original post by felix06)
    Jesus is white in China
    1. from as far as i can remember, in the stories, Santa came from northern Europe, and I don't get what's the point to make a native of northern Europe brown.

    2.I'm Chinese and I will appreciate the card, but still not the brown Santa--never make him Chinese or i won't be able to hold my laugh
    lol! great to hear from you, i have always wondered. everyone told me that in eg africa or asia, santa and Jesus images are according to the majority race . i guess not so. is Jesus also white in china? are chinese barbies or baby dolls chinese or white?

    i want my kids to be proud of their race, and my daughters not to think they need to be white and blond to be beautiful. i will get them brown baby dolls and brown barbies or even a mix of different race ones.

    also i did a santa fun run dressed as santa to raise ££ for farliegh and walking past kids in the street, regardless of my obviously brown face, they recognised teh santa suit and waved at me and said 'look theres santa!' kids dont see race the way adults do.
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    For the cards bit what do you expect really people are gonna want people on the cars who look like them in skin colour so it's not racist at all I would be like WTF if someone gave me a card with a black person on because I don't feel a connection to black people
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    lol! great to hear from you, i have always wondered. everyone told me that in eg africa or asia, santa and Jesus images are according to the majority race . i guess not so. is Jesus also white in china? are chinese barbies or baby dolls chinese or white?

    i want my kids to be proud of their race, and my daughters not to think they need to be white and blond to be beautiful. i will get them brown baby dolls and brown barbies or even a mix of different race ones.

    also i did a santa fun run dressed as santa to raise ££ for farliegh and walking past kids in the street, regardless of my obviously brown face, they recognised teh santa suit and waved at me and said 'look theres santa!' kids dont see race the way adults do.
    well, Jesus IS white in China. They tried to make Jesus Chinese in 7th century(Tang dynasty) but were called lier and forced to admit that Jesus is actually a westerner. Baby dolls have mixed colors, from yellow as Chinese to white and yes there are black or brown as well. I think Chinese don't care what color you are, all non-Chinese are called "foreigners"

    costume play is something different, people would appreciate your effort dressing up as Santa, not like paintings if anyone feel not right about colored people in Santa dress is likely a racist because one can't change their skin color to fit old Santa stories, but paintings can
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    There are brown christians-at my church there are plenty, mainly from srilanka though. There are also africans, black carribreans, polish, bulgerians...also, i'm mixed race& my nan is indian, grandad white english, and great grandparents are (also indian) & all have been going to a catholic church thier whole life.
    I much prefer a white santa though and definetly not a black jesus,mary or joseph. They were from palestine; tanned skin/dark hair... not black.
 
 
 
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