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It's the time to radicalise the movement! Watch

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    (Original post by danny111)
    So why do current students who aren't affected by the cuts and rising fees protest?
    This.
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    (Original post by loosebruce)
    Oh look another Commie

    If you do not appreciate the ideologies of this country then why not move to China, I'm sure you'll enjoy it there.... (not)

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    Shut up ya silly hoe.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    Giving to charity is self interest as well then?

    I know where you are coming from, but you have to draw the line somewhere between self interest and not. I mean do you think philanthropists aren't that. That they just decided, I could buy a Ferrari, or give the million away. I get more utility from giving it away, so I'll give it away.
    Charities are a business, their product: Guilt removal.

    Very often they are the sources of the guilt in the first place, they stop you on the street, have a carefully designed speech to make you feel bad about possessing relative prosperity, then sell you a product to take it away.


    Remember, for £2 a month.... you could buy 6 packets of Jelly Tots. Choose wisely.
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    (Original post by jeanmina)
    lol no one really threw out reasons to the question, which makes me laugh.

    capitalism itself is an ideology not a science. learn the relation of production. Come back to reality please, from your perfect world made up of perfect information and perfect market mechanism.

    it is irrational to be automatically allergic to words like "workers", "classes" etc without even looking at those issues. Enough for cliche like "we are greedy and thus need capitalism", "socialism is out of time" that indoctrinated by neoliberal propaganda. Economic figures tell you what's going on. take your time dudes.
    Agree. Just because we can't see the people working all day and night, dying of poverty and starvation to support or economy on our doorstep doesn't mean it's not happening.
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    (Original post by AnHuman)
    Charities are a business, their product: Guilt removal.

    Very often they are the sources of the guilt in the first place, they stop you on the street, have a carefully designed speech to make you feel bad about possessing relative prosperity, then sell you a product to take it away.


    Remember, for £2 a month.... you could buy 6 packets of Jelly Tots. Choose wisely.
    Yes you are right. You save a girl's life from a traffic accident only for guilt removal, if not lust fulfillment. That must be self-interest I agree.

    Go home study what 'tautology' means.
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    (Original post by jeanmina)
    yes you are right. You save a girl's life from a traffic accident only for guilt removal, if not lust fulfillment. That must be self-interest i agree.

    Go home study what 'tautology' means.
    feelin' the burn.
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    This explains the relationship of production in a slightly humourous way.


    I've been bothered by the question "has the emergence of the middle class ended class politics?"
    And I find Lenin's theory of "labour aristocracy" explained it quite well.
    [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_aristocracy"]
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    (Original post by FaraxZeroIncome)

    That is a funny picture.

    Quite frankly the African comparison is getting boring now from all you self hating socialists. Capitalism did not cause famines or tribal/civil wars which has kept the African continent as a backwater region of the world.

    Oh and so much good has come to Africa with many Communist and Socialists rulers and rebels slaughtering people and squandering countries.... gtfo
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    (Original post by jeanmina)
    The rise of tuition fee was passed, by a democratically-elected parliament.
    Exactly, over half of the people you know voted for these policies. If you don't agree with that don't vote for them in the future it really is that simple. Sometimes things don't always go our way but that is part of the parcel of living in a democracy rather than being your own dictator. Just because you don't agree with something that does not legitimise violence, vanadalism or law breaking.

    If anything these acts make the government question the role of students in the decision making process.

    Only by the united power of students and workers equipped with a well understanding of the system shall we win the war.
    That's part of the problem, most of those protesting don't truly understand what they're protesting against (eg; very few understand the loan repayment process).

    And, it is not surprising, as a natural consequence, whom the government would fund, the people or the bankers that failed for their greed?
    Actually one of the main reasons behind the collapse of the banking system was sub-prime mortagages and loans. Of those that defaulted on their mortgages and loans a significant majority lied on their applications to secure more funds. True irresponsible lending was incredibly rare. If you're really looking for someone to blame you're more likely to find someone within your circle of friends, family or neighbours.

    There has been a notable trend of student elitism in the movement. It is not uncommon, when clashes emerge, to hear disturbing comments like ‘they are not students”, “it is only the extremists that causes troubles” etc.
    If those that are protesting truly value their education why are they neglecting their university education, why are they disrupting it for their peers and why are they seeking to bring their institution and their peers into disrepute?

    Guess how many people walked out of my lectures on any one of the protest days? None. Why? We are too busy, we value our education, we are too professional to cause trouble and we appreciate that paying £3k a year or £6k we're getting a bloody good deal. Please go and ask your international student friends how much in tuition fees they pay a year because it's a damn sight more than £6k.

    Come on, it’s not only a matter affecting students, but the whole working class and, of course, the universal value of justice and fairness. The struggle against the cut is not a lovely bourgeois extra-curricular pastime of the prestigious students but a matter of social justice and, specifically, I have to emphasise, a class struggle, a global revolt against capitalism.
    A fair system is where everybody pays the same towards their education (ie; what is being implemented), not where the amount of funding you receive is governed by your parents household income which doesn't take into account your personal circumstances and is open for abuse.

    If there is a demand for your degree in the workplace or it has value to society either you will earn enough to more than pay back your tuition fees or there will be funding in place from the government or your future employer to assist you. If you aren't doing something which is of value to society or isn't necessary for your future career (and a tiny minority of occupations genuinely require a degree) it is questionable as to whether the state should foot the bill. All too often we're just funding people's student/party lifestyles and hobbies for a couple of years which is of little benefit to society and a colossal waste of money.

    A completely state funded university education is not a right but a privilege - very few people seem to appreciate that or the true cost of further education.

    Violence can be justified when of the purpose of self-defense and if preventing further violence.
    Neither of which are valid in this current situation.

    We've experienced a global economic crisis, everybody has taken a beating, it is incredibly selfish of students to try and exclude themselves from the necessary raft of cuts and increases in fees. Sure it might not be a nice prospect to face but the system is still open to all and the funding is there for anybody wanting to go to university.
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    (Original post by AnHuman)
    Charities are a business, their product: Guilt removal.

    Very often they are the sources of the guilt in the first place, they stop you on the street, have a carefully designed speech to make you feel bad about possessing relative prosperity, then sell you a product to take it away.


    Remember, for £2 a month.... you could buy 6 packets of Jelly Tots. Choose wisely.
    My point was that if charity is self interest then everything is self interest (and I agree on this). So criticising someone by saying 'they are just acting in self interest' is a pointless criticism.
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    Delicious tears from the (far) left. Better embrace it while I can.

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    How about I like it the way we have now? (socio-capitalism)

    Also: always funny seeing the left and right clash, get over yourselves
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    (Original post by jeanmina)
    2. Establish bottom-up autonomous bodies democratically controlled by the students. Occupation is just not enough. Take over the school! And workers take over factories.
    Yes I agree. It shouldn't just be left to the state to provide everything. Local people should be given the chance to take over and run their own schools, this is the essence of Big Society vision and Michael Gove is bringing this to empower students and parents and take away the influence of the nanny state. You should apply to be one of the first Big Society schools.
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    ~ L.O.L ~
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    (Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
    Exactly, over half of the people you know voted for these policies. If you don't agree with that don't vote for them in the future it really is that simple. Sometimes things don't always go our way but that is part of the parcel of living in a democracy rather than being your own dictator. Just because you don't agree with something that does not legitimise violence, vanadalism or law breaking.

    If anything these acts make the government question the role of students in the decision making process.



    That's part of the problem, most of those protesting don't truly understand what they're protesting against (eg; very few understand the loan repayment process).



    Actually one of the main reasons behind the collapse of the banking system was sub-prime mortagages and loans. Of those that defaulted on their mortgages and loans a significant majority lied on their applications to secure more funds. True irresponsible lending was incredibly rare. If you're really looking for someone to blame you're more likely to find someone within your circle of friends, family or neighbours.



    If those that are protesting truly value their education why are they neglecting their university education, why are they disrupting it for their peers and why are they seeking to bring their institution and their peers into disrepute?

    Guess how many people walked out of my lectures on any one of the protest days? None. Why? We are too busy, we value our education, we are too professional to cause trouble and we appreciate that paying £3k a year or £6k we're getting a bloody good deal. Please go and ask your international student friends how much in tuition fees they pay a year because it's a damn sight more than £6k.



    A fair system is where everybody pays the same towards their education (ie; what is being implemented), not where the amount of funding you receive is governed by your parents household income which doesn't take into account your personal circumstances and is open for abuse.

    If there is a demand for your degree in the workplace or it has value to society either you will earn enough to more than pay back your tuition fees or there will be funding in place from the government or your future employer to assist you. If you aren't doing something which is of value to society or isn't necessary for your future career (and a tiny minority of occupations genuinely require a degree) it is questionable as to whether the state should foot the bill. All too often we're just funding people's student/party lifestyles and hobbies for a couple of years which is of little benefit to society and a colossal waste of money.

    A completely state funded university education is not a right but a privilege - very few people seem to appreciate that or the true cost of further education.



    Neither of which are valid in this current situation.

    We've experienced a global economic crisis, everybody has taken a beating, it is incredibly selfish of students to try and exclude themselves from the necessary raft of cuts and increases in fees. Sure it might not be a nice prospect to face but the system is still open to all and the funding is there for anybody wanting to go to university.
    Finally someone reply with reasoning. I appreciate it though I have to disagree, in our different understandings of the current system. maybe reply tmr.
 
 
 
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